Some Americans will get their student loans canceled in February as Biden accelerates his new plan

[Green Sun]

but if you only take out the loan you need say the semester cost is 15k and you have 10k in other forms of aid then you are not taking out all that much really only 1/3 of the costs. Moreover there is also no law that says that someone must wait for that six months to expire before starting repayment. If you get a job after graduation ( and remember you can start getting the word out before you gradate and you have a job three months after you gradate there is no law that says you have to wait the extra three months before paying on the loan.

I'm not saying they have to wait any number of months to start paying your loan back. I'm saying that you can't have too big of a pause between semesters, or you'll potentially have to make payments before you are ready, alongside dealing with larger payments right off the bat because of interest capitalization.

And a lot of people don't have other forms of aid that comes without a loan. I had to take out 2 sets of loans for each of my semesters. 10k in loan-free aid per semester is a lot.

Exactly, the traditional 4 year university system is not set up to accommodate the part-time student. Realistically, if one could pay for all, or even a significant portion of their tuition in a semester off or part—time job, it wouldn’t make financial sense to pursue a degree. Just keep going with that high paying job that doesn’t require a degree.

I agree that 4 year universities aren't the be-all-end-all. But we do have a culture that pushed those degrees onto students. My (private, catholic) high school wanted us to start making a list of colleges we were hoping to pursue during our highschool freshman year. My parents, both college grads, insisted nothing less than us all getting bachelors degrees, that not going to college "wasn't an option". And at least at the places I have worked at, the HR hiring process immediately tosses aside those without a 4 year degree for almost all positions.

It's improving, somewhat, but for a large part of the country, college degrees are still expected as the default.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I'm not saying they have to wait any number of months to start paying your loan back. I'm saying that you can't have too big of a pause between semesters, or you'll potentially have to make payments before you are ready, alongside dealing with larger payments right off the bat because of interest capitalization.

And a lot of people don't have other forms of aid that comes without a loan. I had to take out 2 sets of loans for each of my semesters. 10k in loan-free aid per semester is a lot.


I agree that 4 year universities aren't the be-all-end-all. But we do have a culture that pushed those degrees onto students. My (private, catholic) high school wanted us to start making a list of colleges we were hoping to pursue during our highschool freshman year. My parents, both college grads, insisted nothing less than us all getting bachelors degrees, that not going to college "wasn't an option". And at least at the places I have worked at, the HR hiring process immediately tosses aside those without a 4 year degree for almost all positions.

It's improving, somewhat, but for a large part of the country, college degrees are still expected as the default.

Expected for trade blue collar jobs?

 

[comana]

trade schools take a lot less time and make good money as well you know. Also, there are PLENTY of people who choose to go back either full or part time after in life ( usually defined as after their 25th birthday) You think they have an easy time of it probably not, but as long as they still have the mental ability to handle college level work there is no age limit to pursue classes.

I definitely do not think everyone needs to go through university, however, the former students we are discussing, for the most part, were told throughout their secondary education that a college degree was a necessity. This idea was pushed for the benefit of high schools that get awards and funding based on how many graduates go onto higher education, and universities offer “useless“ degrees to fulfill the need of “just get a bachelors in something” and also to lure in that tuition money. Employers of all sort are also guilty when they require a degree as an applicant screening method for jobs that have no need of a degree.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I'm not saying they have to wait any number of months to start paying your loan back. I'm saying that you can't have too big of a pause between semesters, or you'll potentially have to make payments before you are ready, alongside dealing with larger payments right off the bat because of interest capitalization.

And a lot of people don't have other forms of aid that comes without a loan. I had to take out 2 sets of loans for each of my semesters. 10k in loan-free aid per semester is a lot.


I agree that 4 year universities aren't the be-all-end-all. But we do have a culture that pushed those degrees onto students. My (private, catholic) high school wanted us to start making a list of colleges we were hoping to pursue during our highschool freshman year. My parents, both college grads, insisted nothing less than us all getting bachelors degrees, that not going to college "wasn't an option". And at least at the places I have worked at, the HR hiring process immediately tosses aside those without a 4 year degree for almost all positions.

It's improving, somewhat, but for a large part of the country, college degrees are still expected as the default.

I do not believe that people do not have other aid. Why because along with work study most schools offer some kind of merit based scholarship to say nothing of the 1000s of scholarships for everything under the sun out there. Tall people short people, people of color, all different kinds of major. There is no way that the only aid someone has CAN be loans. If you go in state most states even offer aid to in-state students. I know not everyone goes to school in state, but my point was that that is added to the LONG list of other non-loan aid for which a person may qualify.

 

[comana]

I'm not saying they have to wait any number of months to start paying your loan back. I'm saying that you can't have too big of a pause between semesters, or you'll potentially have to make payments before you are ready, alongside dealing with larger payments right off the bat because of interest capitalization.

And a lot of people don't have other forms of aid that comes without a loan. I had to take out 2 sets of loans for each of my semesters. 10k in loan-free aid per semester is a lot.


I agree that 4 year universities aren't the be-all-end-all. But we do have a culture that pushed those degrees onto students. My (private, catholic) high school wanted us to start making a list of colleges we were hoping to pursue during our highschool freshman year. My parents, both college grads, insisted nothing less than us all getting bachelors degrees, that not going to college "wasn't an option". And at least at the places I have worked at, the HR hiring process immediately tosses aside those without a 4 year degree for almost all positions.

It's improving, somewhat, but for a large part of the country, college degrees are still expected as the default.

I completely agree and just posted nearly the exact sentiment.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I definitely do not think everyone needs to go through university, however, the former students we are discussing, for the most part, were told throughout their secondary education that a college degree was a necessity. This idea was pushed for the benefit of high schools that get awards and funding based on how many graduates go onto higher education, and universities offer “useless“ degrees to fulfill the need of “just get a bachelors in something” and also to lure in that tuition money. Employers of all sort are also guilty when they require a degree as an applicant screening method for jobs that have no need of a degree.

and when you got one of those 'useless' degrees you should have known that at least in terms of THAT degree you would not get very far.

 

[Green Sun]

I do not believe that people do not have other aid. Why because along with work study most schools offer some kind of merit based scholarship to say nothing of the 1000s of scholarships for everything under the son out there. Tall people short people, people of color, all different kinds of major. There is no way that the only aid someone has CAN be loans. If you go in state most states even offer aid to in-state students. I know not everyone goes to school in state, but my point was that that is added to the LONG list of other non-loan aid for which a person may qualify.

At my college, work study was immensely contested - There were far more students applying for it then they had jobs available.

I was not a smart enough kid to get merit based aid. The only loan-free aid I got was a Perkins Grant of $18,740 - That was it for the entire 4 and a half years I attended college. So a little under double of what you proposed in aid for a single semester, stretched out over nine semesters.

While I know that it worked out well for me - I paid off my loans after the freeze ended, there's a lot of people that won't be as lucky as I am.

 

[comana]

and when you got one of those 'useless' degrees you should have known that at least in terms of THAT degree you would not get very far.

Did you skim past all that I wrote as to why students still pursue these degrees? Put all the blame on literal teenagers who have been told their whole lives that having a bachelor degree is paramount and not given a whole lot of advice on doing it wisely.

 

[Green Sun]

At my college, work study was immensely contested - There were far more students applying for it then they had jobs available.

I was not a smart enough kid to get merit based aid. The only loan-free aid I got was a Perkins Grant of $18,740 - That was it for the entire 4 and a half years I attended college. So a little under double of what you proposed in aid for a single semester, stretched out over nine semesters.

While I know that it worked out well for me - I paid off my loans after the freeze ended, there's a lot of people that won't be as lucky as I am.

I went back to pull the numbers, just to fully demonstrate how huge a "normal" sized loan gets nowdays.

Across my 9 semesters of my degree, my total loans, consisting of Direct Subsidized, Direct Unsubsidized, PLUS, and Private Student Loans, totaled at $101,380‬.

I did get the benefit of having the PLUS loans forgiven, however. This was due to my father's death during my time at college, the PLUS loans were signed to him, which removed $24,024 from my debt. Obviously, I much rather wish that didn't happen.

In total though? My aid was the Perkins Grant, and one year where after saving up money from a required co-op for my degree, I put in the entire rest of my savings to avoid needing to take out a private loan.

There's people who left college with far, far more than the $77,332 I ended up leaving with, harder workers, too, and they didn't get as lucky as I did after college. I have several friends and family members who have struggled with employment, due to graduating college right at the start of the pandemic, where no one would hiring, regardless of their field. That freeze being the only reason they managed to stay above the water.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Well, it depends on where you go as to how much it is first of all. Second of all there are scholarships, grants, work study ECT to help with cost. My sister for example spent nine semesters in school ( her freshman year was tough with our father being terminally ill and passing in March of that year. Between scholarships state and church and a little bit ( compared to the total of our own funds she left ( graduated not owing a DIME) There is also no law that says that one must go to school all at one time or by full time the entire time.

You don't seem to get the point. Your "few thousands" in loans notion would barely cover just tuition for a single semester. A "foot in the pool" credit-building "few thousands" in debt can hardly finance a college degree.

 

[Desk trauma]

Expected for trade blue collar jobs?

If that’s the career path someone is taking college isn’t an issue.

 

[Desk trauma]

and when you got one of those 'useless' degrees you should have known that at least in terms of THAT degree you would not get very far.

Yeah, the kids should have known better than to listen to what every single adult in the education system told them.

 

[Bradskii]

As I pointed out before, the Bidens and Pelosis and the Clintons and Obamas and George Soros are not willing to help with their own money...

That might not be the most nonsensical argument I'll read this week. But there's only a day to go.

 

[Green Sun]

You don't seem to get the point. Your "few thousands" in loans notion would barely cover just tuition for a single semester. A "foot in the pool" credit-building "few thousands" in debt can hardly finance a college degree.

Yeah, the kids should have known better than to listen to what every single adult in the education system told them.

For some more comparison, when my mother was back at college, her total in FFELP loans was 4000 dollars. We could see this when we were working on the loan information for her PLUS Loan. Adjusting for inflation, that's roughly the cost of 1 semester worth of PLUS loans my dad had to take out. It wouldn't even cover one semester on it's own.

And yet, despite knowing the costs after seeing it, in our house, there was never the option to not go to college. If you wanted to work in a trade, the pressure from the (private, catholic) highschool was "go do engineering first so you get paid well".

Going to college wasn't pushed by the strawmen "liberal elites". It was traditional "hard working" Americans. In my case, the very conservative members of my family were some of the strongest proponents of "you need to go get a degree".

It was spread, with good intentions, by those that went to college and did better and were more successful than their parents. But the cost is nowhere close to what it used to be and the sudden revulsion over helping students out, by the same generations that had some of the greatest benefits from cheap college, is rather telling.

The mindset of "I got mine, no one should get it easier than me" is a poor one.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Going to college wasn't pushed by the strawmen "liberal elites". It was traditional "hard working" Americans. In my case, the very conservative members of my family were some of the strongest proponents of "you need to go get a degree".

It was spread, with good intentions, by those that went to college and did better and were more successful than their parents. But the cost is nowhere close to what it used to be and the sudden revulsion over helping students out, by the same generations that had some of the greatest benefits from cheap college, is rather telling.

IME, it's rarely the grunts in the trades who romanticize being "in the trades." It's white collar politicians, celebrities on tv, trades management, and maybe some moms who sent their kids to trade school. But it's not the guys in their 50's with chronic job-related health problems.

 

[Desk trauma]

IME, it's rarely the grunts in the trades who romanticize being "in the trades." It's white collar politicians, celebrities on tv, trades management, and maybe some moms who sent their kids to trade school. But it's not the guys in their 50's with chronic job-related health problems.

Industrial construction hand rapidly approaching middle age checking in here. It's a hard life, especially as I chose a trade in industrial construction which means being far away from home for months at a time. The physical conditions are awful, work life balance non-existent (60 hours a week is the base it only goes up from there), workplace culture is beyond toxic (that's changing very slowly) it takes a toll on your body (my hearing is going despite PPE use, my spine, wrists, hands lock up in cold weather). But hey, other than that, pays good, scenery changes and social cripples like me fit right in.

 

[Bobber]

These are adults, true, but very young adults, teenagers even, when they start taking out these loans. They feel pressure to take the money to finance an education that teachers, parents and prospective companies have told them- repeatedly- is a requirement for success. Don’t worry, you’ll easily pay it back with your well paid job after graduation.

But something is being forgot here though

Reality has proven that they bought a lie that has saddled them with debt that can be nearly impossible to pay off with average salaries. They make payments that they can afford but the interest compounds at a faster rate causing the balance to increase despite years, even decades of payments.

Perhaps true but again something is being forgot here though.

Entire generations who can’t afford to get their own housing, start families, and generally contribute to our spending economy the way their parents and grandparents did is a huge negative.

I get it. But something is still being overlooked here.

But if wagging a finger at them, saying your problem, not mine, makes anyone feel better, well enjoy that I guess.

What's being overlooked is they made a contract with the government for student loans....when you make such a contract you're making it with the people of the nation from which government gets it's money to begin with. If government writes it off and forgives the debt guess what happens to the value of everyone's else's money. It get deflated for the value of the dollar becomes less.

Then there's this. They get their loans forgiven and get this new job where as a poor smuck that didn't want to go in debt for such a loan.....they got nothing of this free education. i think it's disgusting how they do this at election time to. If they cared so much about the problem why didn't they do this a could of years ago. BUYING VOTES which shows again they really don't have societies best interests at heart.

 

[comana]

But something is being forgot here though

Perhaps true but again something is being forgot here though.

I get it. But something is still being overlooked here.

What's being overlooked is they made a contract with the government for student loans....when you make such a contract you're making it with the people of the nation from which government gets it's money to begin with. If government writes it off and forgives the debt guess what happens to the value of everyone's else's money. It get deflated for the value of the dollar becomes less.

Then there's this. They get their loans forgiven and get this new job where as a poor smuck that didn't want to go in debt for such a loan.....they got nothing of this free education. i think it's disgusting how they do this at election time to. If they cared so much about the problem why didn't they do this a could have years ago. BUYING VOTES which shows again they really don't have societies best interests at heart.

It would be great if education was free or close to free. This specific loan forgiveness is not “free education“. To qualify they have to have paid at least 10 years consistently.

 

[Valletta]

It would be great if education was free or close to free. This specific loan forgiveness is not “free education“. To qualify they have to have paid at least 10 years consistently.

Joe is trying to buy votes, Joe's approval ratings are dismal. Rather than deal with major problems he is focusing on rewarding potential voters. By the way, it sounds like it doesn't matter how many payments have been missed or payments reduced, the borrowers will not have to pay any of that back. That will encourage them to borrow more if they wish, funded by the rest of us.

 

[Pommer]

Joe is trying to buy votes, Joe's approval ratings are dismal. Rather than deal with major problems he is focusing on rewarding potential voters. By the way, it sounds like it doesn't matter how many payments have been missed or payments reduced, the borrowers will not have to pay any of that back. That will encourage them to borrow more if they wish, funded by the rest of us.

Surely the phrase “election-year-politics” isn’t new to you?