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Sola Scriptura, Verse Mining, etc

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RickardoHolmes

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I ask Why Sola Scriptura? I ask because I do not subscribbe to it and have difficulty understanding the motivations behind it. (Although I have theories into why and how)

Also, something else that I find fascinating as well is what I call "Verse Mining" ie... Someone , in an attempt to refute or affirm something, quotes one sentence of writings from the Bible, attempting to use that as a means and end of justifying their argument. It may work with some people, but to me, the entire book needs to be looked at in it's entirety. Most people who "verse Mine" lack not only the insight and knowledge of who the writer was, but also the situation around which it was written to begin with. Not to mention, these tend to be the very individuals who have no clue as to how the Bible even came into existance.

Personally, And I will say this not to provoke anyone but as a third question, What's really so great about the Bible? It has fallen out of favor with Academicians , it has been disproved in part by science and history, and for me, it has never been a source of inspiration as so many claim it to be. I certainly do not find it to be any more or less inspired than many other books out there.
From what I can gather, after years of research, that it is nothing more than an assigned value derived by group consensus. That, sadly, does not make something true. Reason and Logic dictate that.
I am not saying that it does not have usefulness as a glimpse into a small faction of early Christians and their mythology. But it seems like a collection best suited for early Christians, especially literate Romans who wanted to share a common story. Roman culture was such that people wanted to be on the same page so to speak.

Finally, something I have seen posted over and over. I need to clarify this one for everyone's sake. Some people will verse Mine 2Timothy 3:16 as saying that the Bible is something to be used as Sola Scriptura. If we look at the original text, the time and language in which it is written, πᾶς γραφή θεόπνευστος καί ὠφέλιμος πρός διδασκαλία πρός ἔλεγχος πρός ἐπανόρθωσις πρός παιδεία ὁ ἐν δικαιοσύνη We notivce first off that the reference is to Toric or Old Testament Scripture, not New testament as it did not yet exist. If we were to take ""All Scripture" the Pasa Graphee as in Greek We would have to include anything Including the New Testament, but also the Koran, the Book of Mormon and unfortuantely the collected writings of Baba Ram Dass. The Latter does nto appeal to me either.

In context, we see not a single bases for Sola Scriptura, either in Scripture itself or in logic or reason. yet so many subscribe to it, and I would like to know why, both from thsoe who do and those who have observations

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TR23

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When the traditions of the Pharisees had begun to take on a life of their own to the detriment of the people, losing sight of god's original intention, Jesus returned to the scripture as his baseline.
Jewish tradition states that god commanded them to keep both a written Torah and an oral Torah (their traditions).
The later helps give understanding and application of the former.
But without the former as a foundation, then the later can quickly morph into something far beyond the truth.

In that sense, the new testament scripture is our baseline and foundation.
Although as christians we do develop traditions with regards to how to apply what the book says in our individual lives and society, and we sometimes expand on our understand of the scripture by drawing on personal experiences and personal revelations, the scripture keeps us rooted in truth and protects us from satan's deceptions.

Without the scripture as a foundation, it would be very easy for all kinds of heretical viewpoints to creep into christianity, as people begin to be moved by what they feel is the right answer without regard for whether or not that feeling or thought they have comes from god.

The scripture is how we test what is true from what is false.

Acts 17:11 And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.
 
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ebia

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Personally, And I will say this not to provoke anyone but as a third question, What's really so great about the Bible? It has fallen out of favor with Academicians , it has been disproved in part by science and history, and for me, it has never been a source of inspiration as so many claim it to be.
What do you mean "disproven by science and history"?
as for favor in academia, it is far and away still the most studied book, and much of the criticism of the previous century or so is unravelling.
 
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MrPolo

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What's really so great about the Bible? ... it has never been a source of inspiration as so many claim it to be. I certainly do not find it to be any more or less inspired than many other books out there.

I'm curious why you are Christian? You believe in the historical testimony of Christ within and without Scripture then?
 
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wayseer

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Personally, And I will say this not to provoke anyone but as a third question, What's really so great about the Bible? It has fallen out of favor with Academicians , it has been disproved in part by science and history, and for me, it has never been a source of inspiration as so many claim it to be. I certainly do not find it to be any more or less inspired than many other books out there.

I am not aware of the Bible 'falling out of favour'. In fact it seems the opposite is the case as increasing numbers undertaking theological/biblical courses. The trend seems to upwards, not downwards.

The biblical texts were never meant to be a textbook for science or history 101.

If you find no inspiration in the texts perhaps the problem lies with the glasses you are wearing when reading the Bible.
 
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Slaol121

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I ask Why Sola Scriptura? I ask because I do not subscribbe to it and have difficulty understanding the motivations behind it. (Although I have theories into why and how)

I don't believe that the Bible is the sole source of Truth (Sola Scriptura), but I do believe that no Truth will ever disagree with Scripture.

Paul wrote in his second letter to Timothy:

"...and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." II Timothy 3:15-17 (NIV)

I believe that Salvation comes ultimately from the Grace of God... through Faith in Jesus Christ, manifested in our lives as Godly works.

This verse in 2 Timothy clearly says that Scripture is able to make you both "wise for Salvation through Faith" and also "equipped for every good work".

Also, something else that I find fascinating as well is what I call "Verse Mining" ie... Someone , in an attempt to refute or affirm something, quotes one sentence of writings from the Bible, attempting to use that as a means and end of justifying their argument.
There are several instances in the New Testament when Jesus would fit your definition of a "verse miner".


It may work with some people, but to me, the entire book needs to be looked at in it's entirety.

Why?


Most people who "verse Mine" lack not only the insight and knowledge of who the writer was, but also the situation around which it was written to begin with. Not to mention, these tend to be the very individuals who have no clue as to how the Bible even came into existance.
Hmm... someone has a big head ;)


Personally, And I will say this not to provoke anyone but as a third question, What's really so great about the Bible?
The Bible is divinely-revealed Truth from God.


It has fallen out of favor with Academicians , it has been disproved in part by science and history, and for me, it has never been a source of inspiration as so many claim it to be. I certainly do not find it to be any more or less inspired than many other books out there.
The bible is still one of the most studied books in the world. It is also the #1 best seller out there.
 
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Johnnz

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The emphasis of scripture as the basis for Christian faith arose as part of the Reformation, against the Roman reliance of reason (natural theology) and church tradition.

Modern evangelicals aren't into text spotting. They seek an understanding of scripture within the context of its genre, authorial purpose and how its original audience understood it. This is leading to many widely expanded understandings of Scripture that far exceed text spotting teachings in their scope and relevance.

John
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sheina

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I don't believe that the Bible is the sole source of Truth (Sola Scriptura), but I do believe that no Truth will ever disagree with Scripture.
Not all "truth" is God's Truth. You don't define what you mean by "truth". How do you define "Truth"?

The "all truth is God's truth" myth is a basic denial of the doctrine of Christ which declares that Christ is the truth. "God's truth" is "as the truth is in Jesus" (Ephesians 4:21). Christ the Living Word is revealed in the written Word: "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth" (John 17:17). Christ did not say, "If ye continue in my word...ye shall know part of the truth and you shall be made partially free. There is more truth yet to be revealed through godless humanists that will liberate future generations more completely than I can now free you through my Word and my Spirit alone."

God's truth as revealed by the Holy Spirit in His Word sets us free from sin and leads us into victorious living. It has nothing to do with science, but involves the moral and spiritual part of man. As soon as science pretends to deal with spiritual truth it has overstepped its bounds.

Sufficiency of Scripture | thebereancall.org

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

The Scriptures are the standard by which we determine God's truth. The Bible is the final and sole authority for matters of Christian faith, doctrine and practice.
 
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Slaol121

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Not all "truth" is God's Truth. You don't define what you mean by "truth"...

...The Scriptures are the standard by which we determine God's truth. The Bible is the final and sole authority for matters of Christian faith, doctrine and practice.

I think we actually agree on this point - I was saying that no truth can be Truth (capital "T" = God's Truth) if it disagrees with Scripture. Another way of looking at the same concept would be to say:

"Nothing is Truth unless scripture confirms it so"

Do you agree?



How do you define "Truth"?
The foundation of Truth is the Living God, and it is protected and guarded by the church.
"If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." 1 Timothy 3:15 (NIV)
 
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Dmitry R.

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I ask Why Sola Scriptura? I ask because I do not subscribbe to it and have difficulty understanding the motivations behind it. (Although I have theories into why and how)

I fully agree with you. Those who declare "Sola Scriptura" are also declare that "Nothing is Truth unless scripture confirms it so". Looking at the second principle, I can remark that "Sola Scriptura" principle does not confirmed by the "Scriptura" itself, how can it be truth than? There is nowhere in the Bible written "Sola Scriptura".

Personally, And I will say this not to provoke anyone but as a third question, What's really so great about the Bible?

Bible was written by dozens of authors for more than 1000 years. Do you know the other book like this? More than a Billion of people consider it to be the revelation of God. Is it "Great" enough?

From what I can gather, after years of research, that it is nothing more than an assigned value derived by group consensus. That, sadly, does not make something true. Reason and Logic dictate that.

One again, I fully agree with you. Any religious group or "church" may derive (and really derive) their spicific principles from the Bible. So there are variety of different and sometimes contradictory doctrines derived from the same text. Thus just the text of the Bible can not be the only source of doctrine.

Finally, something I have seen posted over and over. I need to clarify this one for everyone's sake. Some people will verse Mine 2Timothy 3:16 as saying that the Bible is something to be used as Sola Scriptura. If we look at the original text, the time and language in which it is written, πᾶς γραφή θεόπνευστος καί ὠφέλιμος πρός διδασκαλία πρός ἔλεγχος πρός ἐπανόρθωσις πρός παιδεία ὁ ἐν δικαιοσύνη We notivce first off that the reference is to Toric or Old Testament Scripture, not New testament as it did not yet exist.

Once again you are fully right, as per my point of view. But I can add to this that text "2Timothy 3:16:All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" does not give principle "Sola scripture". We can make out that scripture is "profitable" and that is accepted by everybody. But I do not see anything to proof "sola" in connection to the text of the scriptures.

In context, we see not a single bases for Sola Scriptura, either in Scripture itself or in logic or reason. yet so many subscribe to it, and I would like to know why, both from thsoe who do and those who have observations

Yes, the same is interesting to me as well.
 
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TR23

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We see the truth of scripture reflected in our experiences.

However, some people believe that they have experiences which represent opposing truths or contradictory truths.

If experience becomes the only basis for judging truth, then the floodgates are opened to deception on your mind because you have no firm foundation as a pivot point for understanding your experiences.

If you believe that the writings of god's prophets are reflecting the true and accurate word of god.
If you believe the writings of the apostles are reflecting the true and accurate teachings of Jesus and the will of god.
Then it is self evident that the revealed word of god becomes the foundation of your faith, that nothing can replace it.
 
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Schroeder

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sola scripture is the Truth is in them. but we are to be lead by the SPirit which is Truth as well probalem with both is that there is more then one spirit and man is rather vallible in reading as the many denom show. But for me if it doesnt line up to scripture it isnt Truth. scripture interpretes scripture. But we need the Spirit to guid us into all Truth.
 
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TR23

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Personally, And I will say this not to provoke anyone but as a third question, What's really so great about the Bible? It has fallen out of favor with Academicians , it has been disproved in part by science and history,
YouTube - Sinai Connection - Ep 3 - By Michael Rood

Watch the whole series.

Miles of chariots at the bottom of the red sea at the only place where a crossing can be made once the water is removed.

Also, they've found the real mount sinai, and the evidence of hundreds of thousands of people camping out there is overwhelming. The camp is full of egyptian era hebrew artifacts. They even found the altar of the golden calf, and what is probably the mountain where god descended on.


I've often heard it said that there's no true archeological evidence for stories like the exodus, well there it is. Plain as day. Undeniable. This should prove for everyone that the bible is truth.
 
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