so what's with this notion part ll

[isshinwhat]

Are you suppressing truth through your wickedness or are you admitting God's omnipotence and your need for grace and mercy? Do you know the God who has been made plain to you, and in your callous selfishness have chosen not to care and walk away from and mock Him? ...Or do you struggle with your sinfulness, and as your username states, acknowledge your dependence upon God despite moments-hell, even long periods weakness and doubt?

Paul says that God gave the Romans over to what they wanted; themselves and their own selfish desires as they worked to suppress the truth through their wickedness... But Jesus also promises that God does not give a scorpion to one of His children who asks for bread. Jesus Christ came for you exactly as you now are, fallen, plagued with doubt, and lacking hope. You are precisely who He died for. What love! God doesn't hate you in your struggles and doubt; that is when He pours out His grace all the more. You are not defeated! You are loved!

Rom 5:20

Law came in, to increase the trespass; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more...

 

[WarriorAngel]

I don't make any special effort to hide or express the gayness, I just don't do affect (voice, mannerisms, etc.) and behave as...I do.

I know that a lot of Christians think I'm grody because I have the gayness. I know a lot of Christians think God thinks I'm grody because I have the gayness. I think God put the gayness on me as a punishment but I don't know what I did to deserve it. That's one of the biggest barriers for me.

Coming from the background I do, it's difficult to see God as wanting to be with one rather than God wanting to judge and torture someone. Just telling me "God loves you" is, again, an abstraction. It's a concept that I cannot wrap my brain around because it goes back to the grody thing that is inside of me, the gayness, which, I read in scripture, is something that I was given up to. Can you say that I've internalized it? Oh, yeah.

BTW, I tried to read that sermon that you linked to, but large blocks of text with no white space are not easy on my eyes. When I have a good hour or two (its really long!), I'm going to have to have my iMac read it to me.

Paul was explaining S&G...
And the biggest problem with S&G was as it is today if you read my last post.

They ignored God - they turned away from Him and God allowed them to wallow in their sins.. to have at it. Because they no longer cared about pleasing Him. AND that was their down fall - was not caring about God - in which He no longer infused His help to them - He let them do as they would in free will.
BUT they became so reprobate and scandalous - He could not take the stench of satan overcoming their every thing.

Their initial act - removing themselves from God - led to every avarice and deed in sin.
AND the list of sins we are to avoid - are the same as those who indulge in them who refuse His graces.

In fact as one first gives up God, they hardly notice their sins becoming more depraved. Instead of at least seeking Him, they enter a world of decadence, and decay tho their eyes see it not.

THIS does not mean that those who struggle with sin - are given up on - it means if they chose God - they have a journey to overcome satans temptations [worldly sins] through God as our aid if we cooperate.

I think you need to understand the differences.
For one is with the help of Grace we accept - the other is fact we refuse His grace and indulge.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Are you suppressing truth through your wickedness or are you admitting God's omnipotence and your need for grace and mercy? Do you know the God who has been made plain to you, and in your callous selfishness have chosen not to care and walk away from and mock Him? ...Or do you struggle with your sinfulness, and as your username states, acknowledge your dependence upon God despite moments-hell, even long periods weakness and doubt?

Paul says that God gave the Romans over to what they wanted; themselves and their own selfish desires as they worked to suppress the truth through their wickedness... But Jesus also promises that God does not give a scorpion to one of His children who asks for bread. Jesus Christ came for you exactly as you now are, fallen, plagued with doubt, and lacking hope. You are precisely who He died for. What love! God doesn't hate you in your struggles and doubt; that is when He pours out His grace all the more. You are not defeated! You are loved!

Rom 5:20[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]
Law came in, to increase the trespass; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more...
​

We think alike. If my last post made sense.

And did you notice how sensitive the bless and do not curse thing has become?

 

[isshinwhat]

I know? It was just empty spaces, but it edited them...? I just deleted the spaces and it fixed it. Who knows?

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

To me, this in an abstraction as I've never heard of one who successfully made heaven.

How would you know? As horribly as gays are treated, it's not like any of them would have told anyone. You don't know the sexual orientation of Saint Francis, or Saint Mary Magdalene de Pazzi. Or Saint Paul, for that matter. In fact, name the Saints who were unmarried you know for a fact were heterosexual. I can think of one: Saint Augustine. You know how many Saints there are? You really think not one of them was gay? I doubt that very much.

 

[isshinwhat]

Seraphim Rose - OrthodoxWiki

 

[WarriorAngel]

How would you know? As horribly as gays are treated, it's not like any of them would have told anyone. You don't know the sexual orientation of Saint Francis, or Saint Mary Magdalene de Pazzi. Or Saint Paul, for that matter. In fact, name the Saints who were unmarried you know for a fact were heterosexual. I can think of one: Saint Augustine. You know how many Saints there are? You really think not one of them was gay? I doubt that very much.

It takes great restraint at first - to be chaste. Then God helps - and sex leaves the mind. As is the case of virgins i suspect - given the Saints had one single thing on their mind...that would be God.
If they had any propensity - it was short lived since their true lover was God.

I think for some - they were literally nonsexual if that makes sense.
Which does occur for humans if their mind lives with God.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Seraphim Rose - OrthodoxWiki

As i was just saying...great example.
He lost his gay man identity to become id'd as a Christian. He became nonsexual for God.

So um, maybe our brain waves got caught in some fishnet together.... lol

 

[Fantine]

I think that we stereotype when we read or listen to media personalities and writers who are no better than bigots.

Their commentaries are like junk food, clogging up our minds and inflaming our emotions.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I think that we stereotype when we read or listen to media personalities and writers who are no better than bigots.

Their commentaries are like junk food, clogging up our minds and inflaming our emotions.

Gotta keep the ratings up.

 

[WarriorAngel]

So look i was at my friends house [the one who lost her brother my old classmate - see other thread]
Well, the one girl who i knew and was kinda hanging out with back in the day - just told me she was bisexual.
My friend's son put my on the spot asking what i thot of gay marriage - which i said what i said.
[Her son is a confrontational agnostic/atheist - depending how long we talk - he goes agnostic] And he was tearing up the Church
And i explained how the Church teaches about this disorder - and that love above all things - those who suffer this orientation.
But gay marriage is going against...etc

I wish i lived in Pittsburgh - again, if not for any other reason but to mentor this young lad. Who i used to take to Church with me when i babysat him. He used to love going to Church...but his love was never left to grow. His curiosity was killed when his [never before seen] dad popped up and taught him how to be atheist and his BFF down the road's dad is also atheist.

I regret not being there for him longer.

If only i could take all these young persons and put them in my wings and fly them somewhere safe where they could feel the love of God...what grace they would always want.

 

[benedictaoo]

yah i said it and stand by my disgust they are putting gay relationships all over the media with not only undertones to the relationships - but overtly showing us the relationships and the acts and the intimacy.

well, I stand by my disgust at the heterosexuals who are putting it all out there.

Straight people are causing scandal and have for the last 40 years in the media.

You shouldn't limit yourself to just one group of people when our problems with society are because of all of us, we can not pin all this on just the gays.

 

[benedictaoo]

I don't make any special effort to hide or express the gayness, I just don't do affect (voice, mannerisms, etc.) and behave as...I do.

I know that a lot of Christians think I'm grody because I have the gayness. I know a lot of Christians think God thinks I'm grody because I have the gayness. I think God put the gayness on me as a punishment but I don't know what I did to deserve it. That's one of the biggest barriers for me.

Coming from the background I do, it's difficult to see God as wanting to be with one rather than God wanting to judge and torture someone. Just telling me "God loves you" is, again, an abstraction. It's a concept that I cannot wrap my brain around because it goes back to the grody thing that is inside of me, the gayness, which, I read in scripture, is something that I was given up to. Can you say that I've internalized it? Oh, yeah.

BTW, I tried to read that sermon that you linked to, but large blocks of text with no white space are not easy on my eyes. When I have a good hour or two (its really long!), I'm going to have to have my iMac read it to me.

and IMO, its when we get off it and accept that gays are part of our existence and always have been since day one, we'll stop this emotional torture and self hate we, the beautiful straight Christians, have inflicted on homosexuals.

Homosexuality is part of the fallen human condition and the sooner we get over making a homosexual or a lesbian think they're somehow freaks of nature, they'll be able to accept God loves them and does not hate them.

I do not know if folks like WA will ever be able to understand what we do to homosexuals and lesbians with that kind of talk.

It does not reach them but it programs them subconsciously to hate themselves and to feel like God hates them.

It only serves to have them believe they aren't lovable and when a person of any sexual orientation feels unlovable, they go into self destruct mode.

We, the beautiful straight ppl are taught to accept that we are sinners and we can't help it and we need God and God came to us to save us from this pitiful state of being and He came because He loved us so much- to the point He gave up His glory in heaven to be ONE OF US.

We do not teach this this to gay people... we teach them that their sins are the worlds worse, to the point they need to hide themselves away and their concupiscence is somehow unacceptable to God and that they need to deny who they are or they will burn in hell because God hates this so much more than murder even.

If these beautiful straight Christians do not begin to see the damage they have caused... gay people KILL themselves because they are so programmed by US to hate themselves and to feel like God hates them.

So if we really have concern we won't do this anymore.

 

[Needing_Grace]

and IMO, its when we get off it and accept that gays are part of our existence and always have been since day one, we'll stop this emotional torture and self hate we, the beautiful straight Christians, have inflicted on homosexuals.

Homosexuality is part of the fallen human condition and the sooner we get over making a homosexual or a lesbian think they're somehow freaks of nature, they'll be able to accept God loves them and does not hate them.

I do not know if folks like WA will ever be able to understand what we do to homosexuals and lesbians with that kind of talk.

It does not reach them but it programs them subconsciously to hate themselves and to feel like God hates them.

It only serves to have them believe they aren't lovable and when a person of any sexual orientation feels unlovable, they go into self destruct mode.

We, the beautiful straight ppl are taught to accept that we are sinners and we can't help it and we need God and God came to us to save us from this pitiful state of being and He came because He loved us so much- to the point He gave up His glory in heaven to be ONE OF US.

We do not teach this this to gay people... we teach them that their sins are the worlds worse, to the point they need to hide themselves away and their concupiscence is somehow unacceptable to God and that they need to deny who they are or they will burn in hell because God hates this so much more than murder even.

If these beautiful straight Christians do not begin to see the damage they have caused... gay people KILL themselves because they are so programmed by US to hate themselves and to feel like God hates them.

So if we really have concern we won't do this anymore.

Just two things...

First, it's amazing what a good confession can do for one's outlook. Then again, I do live in California where it's not as bad as some parts of the country. I went to confession yesterday and the priest was awesome and compassionate. He only encouraged me with God's love and mercy. I'm so glad I went. It helped me to see that God really does love me, I just forgot.

Second, we need more people to be compassionate towards gays and lesbians because they need to know about God's love for them. The Church specifically says in the Catechism that homosexual persons are to be treated with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Those aren't my words. This is a call, by the Church, that every Catholic is bound to obey. Sorry, them's the breaks.

The fact is, if you respect people, you aren't going to tolerate bullying or other behaviors that feed self-hatred in the person you respect. You're going to do what you can to stop it. Since I know what it's like, somewhat, I can have nothing but compassion, even though I've been taught and trained to loathe homosexuals, including myself, by other Christians. Knowing what I do (and knowing I have to guard that like a treasure!), I have to accept and love myself because God loves me.

Yes, the acts are sinful and that can't be excluded from the discussion, but let's focus on the GOSPEL (that's "Good News" for the uninformed) that Jesus came to give us chance to receive Him so we could be given the right to be called Children of God. That while we were dead in trespasses and sins, He died to pay the unfathomable debt each of us owes God because of those sins. He came to bring us to life and make us share in His life.

Repentance is part of the package, but let's not focus so much on repentance that it seems that the only thing Christians do is live a life of grim and joyless self-floggery.

 

[benedictaoo]

I don't know if any of the hard core Catholics and/or Christians out there will ever be able to see what you are saying.

We have to accept homosexuals for what they are, homosexuals. Not the sex acts, but the person.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

Just two things...

First, it's amazing what a good confession can do for one's outlook. Then again, I do live in California where it's not as bad as some parts of the country. I went to confession yesterday and the priest was awesome and compassionate. He only encouraged me with God's love and mercy. I'm so glad I went. It helped me to see that God really does love me, I just forgot..

This was a great post to read, thank you Lord. I was getting worried about you.

Seriously, go find your "ignore" function and just get the haters off your radar. Of course God loves you, always has, always will. Please don't ever let the Liar convince you otherwise.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

I don't know if any of the hard core Catholics and/or Christians out there will ever be able to see what you are saying..

You know what's interesting? I think I'M a "hardcore" Catholic/Christian. I brook no messing about with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Eucharist is just what He said it is and our job is to care for one another with mercy and compassion in faith and a bit of sacrifice.

I think that's as hardcore as it can get.

I wish I was better at doing it.

 

[Needing_Grace]

This was a great post to read, thank you Lord. I was getting worried about you.

Seriously, go find your "ignore" function and just get the haters off your radar. Of course God loves you, always has, always will. Please don't ever let the Liar convince you otherwise.

This song says it all...just change the words to "just ask you in" is "go confess my sins" and it's PERFECT!

Keith Green - Your Love Broke Through - YouTube

It's got me cryin' like a baby. I'm gonna be a basket case in church later on today.

 

[WarriorAngel]

well, I stand by my disgust at the heterosexuals who are putting it all out there.

Straight people are causing scandal and have for the last 40 years in the media.

You shouldn't limit yourself to just one group of people when our problems with society are because of all of us, we can not pin all this on just the gays.

Maybe it wasnt seen, maybe forgotten - but i included violence and other sins in my list - which includes adultery, fornication that is in every book, story, movie or what not that deals with so called love.

I am not pleased with all of the scandalous things the media puts out there. It is misleading so many young kids to lose their virginity much younger - like age 12.

It is all inappropriate and i seldom turn on the boob tube. I find very little worthy to be watched. Plus the more sensational series like 'Sex in the city' and 'Desperate housewives' are loaded with the sin of fornication.
I just dont watch it...and ya know what, it keeps my mind far from that stuff.

I don't know if any of the hard core Catholics and/or Christians out there will ever be able to see what you are saying.

We have to accept homosexuals for what they are, homosexuals. Not the sex acts, but the person.

See this is where we disagree - why dont we see people are human souls - yes souls - we love - rather than designate them as some sex object.
When we name their preferences, they lose their human dignity and become the object of that sexual preference rather than the person.

If you want to love the person, love them. Why must sex be brought into it.
Like the one EO Saint said - he went from being a gay man to a Christian. IE - he lost the worldly label - and simply fell in love with God - henceforth he was nothing more than Christian.

 

[benedictaoo]

WA, I'm really tired of having this conversation with you over and over.

you need to just accept that homosexuals exist and accept them for what they are, homosexuals. Male human beings who like other male human beings.

You do not have to agree with same sex, sex or accept it as normal or good but you do need to just accept that a lot of this population is homosexual and Lesbian.

You seem to not be able to handle the fact that there are people in this world who have SSA.

There are ppl like that- you think its not something that is part of the fallen human condition and that its made up by the individual and they can help it- not really and this is what I think you need to get over.

and I am not ever going to discuss this with you again.

You and Baby spend too much wasted time trying to convince gays that they have made up their SSA that a SSA does not really exist- yeah it does, get over it.