so what's with this notion part ll

[FranciscanSpirit]

And, appropriate to Lent fast-approaching, those not so "fleshly" but of the state of being in the flesh such as greed, judgement, self-righteousness, indifference, control. The temptation to despair.

St Michael, help us.

 

[isshinwhat]

Every person is created by God. Every person is different. Every person is attracted to sin. There is nothing different about a gay person, who are all the same beautiful, beloved children of God that you are. And, surprisingly enough, even me. We are a called to holiness through the mortification of earthly desire. We all have different forms of that challenge.

This part I agree with. May God's grace heal us all.

 

[BabyChristian22]

Homosexual attraction is disordered. God created Adam and made Eve for his mate. God didn't create the world disordered. He created it with perfect order and perfect harmony. The sin of Adam and Eve caused sin to enter the world, and that's what brought sin and disorder into the world. But just to make sure no one thinks I'm bashing gays. Although homosexual attraction is disordered, it's not a sin unless it's acted upon. People with same sex attraction can make it to Heaven, but they are called to a celibate life.

Homosexual attraction is disordered

So is the tendency to lie, cheat and steal. But it is not a disorder of a human, it is a disorder to the spirit.

All I was saying is that God did not create us disordered. Therefore homosexual attraction, which is a disordered attraction (it says this in the Catechism of the Catholic Church), is not something that was created by God. God created the world with order, not disorder. Although we all have a tendency to sin, God didn't originally create humans with sin or with disordered attractions or behavior. Disorder came when sin entered into the world after the fall of Adam and Eve.

God created Adam and made Eve for his mate.

God did not set us down like Ken and Barbie in the Mattel plastic Paradise, read the Catechism, the language is SYMBOLIC. Here is the world, you can decide whatever you want about what God has and has not done, but the fact is every single species of vertebrate animal ever studied from fish to chickens to monkeys has a predictable population of individuals with same gender attraction. As do humans.

Some animals sometimes demonstrate what is mistaken for homosexual behavior when one male mounts another such as when wolves do this is to establish dominance in the pack. It's symbolic, not homosexual. Or if one were to put two male animals together in captivity and not have any females around one animal might rape the other but only because they are put in an unnatural environment. If a female were to be introduced, the male would prefer the female.

Nevertheless, even if there was any real proof of homosexual behavior in animals, humans are not called to act like animals. Animals greet each other by smelling each others butts, and they sometimes fling feces at each other. But God expects more of humans. Like I said, the world we see today has disorder in it, but God didn't create it that way.

 

[benedictaoo]

LivingWordUnity, Or Baby... please stop posting in my thread. thank you.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

Some animals sometimes demonstrate what is mistaken for homosexual behavior ....

No, this is just uneducated wishful thinking. SCIENCE - you know - those people with all the letters after their names that actually study this stuff- has observed again and again, especially in social species, what is simply nothing else than same-sex attraction and behavior, and in a natural environment. It's not "dominance" or "unnatural" or whatever you tell yourself to pretend this is not perfectly natural.

Read up on the life of bonobos. They are your closest animal relatives and quite the frisky sexaholics with gay sex abounding in every stray branch.

Yes, God made everything this way.

 

[BabyChristian22]

And, appropriate to Lent fast-approaching, those not so "fleshly" but of the state of being in the flesh such as greed, judgement, self-righteousness, indifference, control. The temptation to despair.

Saint Paul warns many times about sexual sins of the flesh.

 

[BabyChristian22]

No, this is just uneducated wishful thinking. SCIENCE - you know - those people with all the letters after their names that actually study this stuff- has observed again and again, especially in social species, what is simply nothing else than same-sex attraction and behavior, and in a natural environment. It's not "dominance" or "unnatural" or whatever you tell yourself to pretend this is not perfectly natural.

Read up on the life of bonobos. They are your closest animal relatives and quite the frisky sexaholics with gay sex abounding in every stray branch.

Yes, God made everything this way.

Nevertheless, even if there was any real proof of exclusive homosexual preference in animals (which you have not provided), humans are not called to act like animals. Animals greet each other by smelling each others butts, and they sometimes fling feces at each other. But God expects more of humans. Like I said, the world we see today has disorder in it, but God didn't create it that way.

 

[Antigone]

Nevertheless, even if there was any real proof of exclusive homosexual preference in animals (which you have not provided), humans are not called to act like animals. Animals greet each other by smelling each others butts, and they sometimes fling feces at each other. But God expects more of humans. Like I said, the world we see today has disorder in it, but God didn't create it that way.

So which is it? First you compare people to animals by claiming there is no such thing as homosexuality in animals and therefore not in humans, then, when confronted with evidence, you say it doesn't matter since God doesn't 'call us to act like animals'.

Guess what, Baby? We are animals.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

Nevertheless, even if there was any real proof of exclusive homosexual preference in animals (which you have not provided), humans are not called to act like animals. Animals greet each other by smelling each others butts, and they sometimes fling feces at each other. But God expects more of humans. Like I said, the world we see today has disorder in it, but God didn't create it that way.

Not all animals smell each other's butts, as it were, but they all have some equivalent. Not all fling feces, but we certainly do, we are trained out of it as children and then started flinging verbal feces at one another. As Antigone said, we are animals.

Do you think Creation is somehow out of God's control? That whatever exists here, does so in spite of God, instead of because of God?

We are certainly called to transcend Creation in our journey to God, to Perfection. But we need the experience of choosing God over our human nature, we need to be transformed by the Holy Spirit, to become new persons in Christ. And we can't do that if we have nothing to overcome. The fact of our seeing the world as disordered is what makes it perfect.

God creates the world exactly as we need it to be and that includes each of us. There is nothing less disordered in you or some other heterosexual than there is in a gay person. Everyone has something that they must overcome to make space in their hearts for Jesus.

You know, Jesus only asked us to do one thing: love. Love God, Love one another. If you find you have picked up some cultural conditioning that has made you personally unable to stomach the idea of homosexuality, then probably the most loving thing is just leave those folks along and pray for them.

 

[isshinwhat]

No, this is just uneducated wishful thinking. SCIENCE - you know - those people with all the letters after their names that actually study this stuff- has observed again and again, especially in social species, what is simply nothing else than same-sex attraction and behavior, and in a natural environment. It's not "dominance" or "unnatural" or whatever you tell yourself to pretend this is not perfectly natural.

Read up on the life of bonobos. They are your closest animal relatives and quite the frisky sexaholics with gay sex abounding in every stray branch.

Yes, God made everything this way.

God did not create homosexuality or any sinful inclinations. Our disordered passions are a result of the Fall. Do you agree with the teaching of the Catholic Church that homosexual attraction is an intrinsically disordered passion?

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

 

[WarriorAngel]

God did not create homosexuality or any sinful inclinations. Our disordered passions are a result of the Fall. Do you agree with the teaching of the Catholic Church that homosexual attraction is an intrinsically disordered passion?

You forgot to add that the act itself is GRAVE.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

God did not create homosexuality ...

So God didn't create Creation? Or He only created part of it?

or any sinful inclinations.

God didn't create the bodies of men to naturally create sperm that has to be ejected at certain times to keep the reproductive system healthy and if there is no opportunity for intercourse with a wife, the means to do that? That thing someone decided was sin instead of necessity?

Did God create the part where you have to pick your nose but not the part where you feel anger?

You tell me please, just what God created and did not. Or don't, because you are one of those who believes a 13 year old boy would CHOOSE to feel attracted to a male instead of a female. Because it makes it easy for you to judge and feel superior and self-righteous. Because you are one who will not accept a fact that flies in the face of your preconceived comforting notions. And talking to you is depressing and I don't think I'll be doing anymore of it on this topic.

Gay people are gay because God made them that way.

And loving someone of the same gender is a lot less disordered than believing we have the ability to judge anyone for anything. It's far less disordered than the inclination to kill, to harm, to lie, to cheat, to hoard, to acquire useless things when 25000 people starve to death every single day, it's less disordered than wanting to watch Survivor instead of helping someone survive.

I personally don't think God cares who we love, I think He cares that we love.

 

[FranciscanSpirit]

You forgot to add that the act itself is GRAVE.

You really always do like reminding everyone about the ACT, don't you? You can hardly go three posts without thinking about it, writing about it, drawing attention to it. I think they have pics online of it, maybe you can go find a few and post them with a big sign that says "DON'T DO THIS" - after you look at enough of them to find exactly the right ones to convey the true depravity that so fascinates you.

Who's the disordered one, again?

 

[BabyChristian22]

God did not create homosexuality or any sinful inclinations. Our disordered passions are a result of the Fall. Do you agree with the teaching of the Catholic Church that homosexual attraction is an intrinsically disordered passion?

So God didn't create Creation? Or He only created part of it?

God never said "let there be sin" when he created the world. And actually, sin isn't a creation. Sin is an absence of a good virtue. For example, sexual sin is the absence of the virtue of chastity.

 

[benedictaoo]

So which is it? First you compare people to animals by claiming there is no such thing as homosexuality in animals and therefore not in humans, then, when confronted with evidence, you say it doesn't matter since God doesn't 'call us to act like animals'.

Guess what, Baby? We are animals.

well, first he compared magnets to humans, claiming there is no such thing as homosexuality.

 

[benedictaoo]

God never said "let there be sin" when he created the world. And actually, sin isn't a creation. Sin is an absence of a good virtue. For example, sexual sin is the absence of the virtue of chastity.

7 wounds were given to us by Satan. Those things are called sin as an anology, not actual sin that we are guilty for having.

we all have them- yep, even you unless you were IC'ed which I doubt.

so we ALL have wounds of sin, we are all damaged goods and because of these rotten "gifts" that the devil gave to us, because Adam fell out of God's grace, we are born struggling and fighting concupiscence. even you.

so that means man is capable of some pretty sick sexual perverseness whether he is gay or straight. Because he has a damaged human nature and he can be depraved.

So if you have a SSA- you can go down the depths of depravity with lust and sexuality.

if you are straight- you can be pretty freaky too.

so what is your point?

SSA is not a temptation... is it a temptation for you to be straight or were you just born this way?

In the list of 7 deadly's lust is listed. SSA is not.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

You really always do like reminding everyone about the ACT, don't you? You can hardly go three posts without thinking about it, writing about it, drawing attention to it. I think they have pics online of it, maybe you can go find a few and post them with a big sign that says "DON'T DO THIS" - after you look at enough of them to find exactly the right ones to convey the true depravity that so fascinates you.

Who's the disordered one, again?

Homosexual desires are disordered (and unnatural). They are a result of sin and found with concupiscence.

 

[isshinwhat]

The point, Bene, is these tendencies toward evil were not created by God as FS claimed. We are all fallen, that is why we need God. We weren't created to live like this, that is why Jesus came; to heal us and lift us to Himself. God did not create us fallen, and sin is not a thing, it is a lack of something. I think you missed FS's point.

2 Peter 1:4

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

You forgot to add that the act itself is GRAVE.

Yes. Meaning we lose Sanctifying Grace. We need Sanctifying Grace to be able to enter Heaven. With out Sanctifying Grace, we go to Hell when we die. Death of the soul, or Grave.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Being homosexual does not mean you are evil. It simply means you have to deal with a different battle than many because you cannot marry someone that you find attractive or desire to be with carnally. There are many good homosexual people that live a very pious and Christian existence and go to Heaven.