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SO THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT TEACHES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED? THEN WHO SHOULD WE BELIEVE

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Mar 19, 2019.

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  1. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member

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    But the debate is if sabbath keeping is a law for the christian as the one it says to not lie, or murder.
     
  2. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The problem with this type of thinking is that what you are preaching is to be applied for sinners, religious hypocrites and backsliders. It does not apply to genuinely converted believers. That is, unless you view non-SDAs as sinners, religious hypocrites and backsliders!
     
  3. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Yes. It implies that those who do not have a SDA theology are going to hell.
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    It is God's WORD that we must point all to BELIEVE and FOLLOW. JESUS says that the hour is coming and now is when the true worshippers will worship God in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 4:23. God is calling us where ever we may be and what ever church we may be in out from following man made traditions back to the Word of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9; JOHN 10:16

    God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God)
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    That is not true [edit]. I have said and believe no such thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  6. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member

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    God words teaches that a day is not neccesary for us to keep for people who interpret them not like you, so other people also has Gods words backing them up. Just different interpretations. I wonder who is right?
     
  7. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member

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    Oh no, tell me you believe that words have meaning? i mean 2+2+6-9 is the same as 1, so tell me when you say people who do not keep the sabbath is in unrepentant sin and people in unrepentat sin is not saved, what you believe here? that people who do not keep the sabbath, is not saved, you can't work around this .
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

    LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

    There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment of any of God's 10

    God bless.
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    What you are posting is not what I am responding to. If our eyes are not open we cannot see the Garden of Eden or the paradise of God. Sin closes our eyes and makes us blind but seeking Jesus can open the blind eyes to see and the deaf to hear. Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
     
  10. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I believe that you are sharing SDA theology, adapting Scripture references to fit into it, and ignoring other Scriptures that don't fit the theology.

    Reminds me of the story of the guy who died and got to heaven. St Peter was showing him around and took him to the different areas - the Baptist area, the Catholic area, the Pentecostal area, and so on. They came to a very high wall, and the guy asked St Peter what was behind it. St Peter said, "That's the SDA section. They think they are the only ones here!"
     
  11. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin. If the son shall make you free you shall be free indeed. JESUS says abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. Whosoever abides in him does not sin: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. We are sinners indeed but we have a Saviour for those that our Heavenly father have given ears to hear and eyes to see. Judge not that you be not judged. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day.

    God bless.
     
  12. ilovejcsog

    ilovejcsog The way....

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    There is too much judgment going on from Christians against other Christians beliefs.. Really only God knows who is right and who is wrong and judging puts you in jeopardy.
     
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  13. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Basic SDA belief, although many SDAs won't admit it, is that the SDA church is the only one that keeps truly to God's Word and therefore is the only one that is at the cutting edge of what God is doing in these days, and they will be the exclusive bride of Christ that will rise to meet Him when he comes again.
     
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  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. I only share Gods' WORD with you. The scripture teach he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him. These are God's WORD not mine or anyone elses. God's WORD is not my words. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. Do you have any scriptures to share or anything to share with us in relation to the OP?

    God bless.
     
  15. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    You quoted twice from John's first letter, but you missed the two commandments in John's first letter. These are the two commandments that John is talking about.

    1 John 2:8:10
    On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.

    1 John 3:11
    For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

    In the context of John's first letter these are the two commandments John has written.

    1 John 3:23
    This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

    To say that there are other commandments that Christians must follow is ignoring what John has just said.

    The Christian who loves others cannot stumble, cannot sin.
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I do not teach people are not saved if they do not keep the Sabbath. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. According to God's WORD; OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. In times of IGNORANCE when someone does not know something is SIN God winks at but when he gives us a KNOWLEDGE of his WORD he expects us to BELIEVE and FOLLOW it *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17.

    God bless.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  17. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    You are not saved under SDA doctrine if you know that disobedience to the Sabbath is a sin.
    To not obey the Sabbath is sin and anyone who breaks the Sabbath is sinning.

    It matters not whether you love Jesus and others, if you do not obey the Sabbath commandment you burn.

    The importance of the Sabbath commandment cannot be underestimated. The mark of the beast is clearly written in Revelation as Sunday worship.
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    LOVE is not separate to Gods' LAW. LOVE is the very expression of God's LAW and how we are to LOVE GOD and LOVE our fellow man and is why JESUS says on these two great commandments of LOVE HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets...

    MATTHEW 22:36-40
    [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
    [38], This is the first and great commandment.
    [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.
    [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

    NOTE: Jesus when asked this question from the Lawyer is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Finishes by saying that on the two great commandments of LOVE hang all the law and the prophets.

    What does v40 mean?

    LUKE 10:25-28
    [25], And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tested him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
    [26], He said unto him, what is written in the law? how read you?
    [27], And he [the Lawyer] answering said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself.
    [28], And he said unto him, you have answered right: this do, and you shall live.

    NOTE: The lawyer knew what it means to love God and love his neighbore. How? Notice the question that the lawyer starts os by asking Jesus; "WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?". Now notice that the very same question is asked again and look how Jesus answers...

    MATTHEW 19:16-19
    [16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    [17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
    [18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, YOU SHALL DO NO MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT LIE, [19], HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and you shall love your neighbour as yourself.
    Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

    NOTE: Notice in that the question from the rich young ruler is the very same question as asked by the lawyer "WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?" but both were answered by Jesus in a different way. When the Lawer asked the question he answered his own question by saying LOVE to GOD and LOVE to his neighbor (from Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Jesus said he answered correctly. When the rich yound ruler asked the same question Jesus answered by saying keep the 10 Commandments and starts out quoting them as his duty of LOVE to his neighbor.

    Is this a contradiction of scripture? In no way the answer has already been given in MATTHEW 22:36-40. ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (LOVE TO GOD and LOVE TO MAN) HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

    When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOUR it is expressed through our actions.

    If we LOVE our neighbor...

    * We will honor our parents,
    * We will not kill them
    * We will not commit adultery with thier spouse
    * We will not steal from them
    * We will not lie to them
    * We will not covet what they own.

    If we LOVE our God...

    * We will not have other Gods
    * We will not make idols and worship them
    * We will not take his name [follow] him in vain
    * We will remember his Sabbath and keep it holy.

    ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [OF LOVE] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

    PAUL understood what JESUS was talking about...

    ROMANS 13:8-10
    [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

    Notice what PAUL says here? LOVE is fulfilling [doing] God's Commandments. God's Commandments or duty towards your neighbor is summed up as you shall LOVE your neighbor as yourself v9. [On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets Matthew 22:40].

    PAUL agrees with Jesus that if you LOVE you will fulfill God's LAW. What about JAMES?

    JAMES 2:8-12
    [8] If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself [Sums up our duty of love in the 10 Commandments Romans 13:9] , you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

    James is using the second great commandment of LOVE which hangs all the commandments of our duty of love to our neighbour and quotes the commandments showing our duty towards our neighbor. This is why Jesus says “On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets” Matthew 22:40. and again..

    JOHN 14:15 [15], IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

    You cannot separate LOVE from God’s LAW. Love is the FULFILLING of it and is demonstrated by OBEDIENCE to Gods’ LAW as our duty of LOVE to God and man. [“On these two commandments [of LOVE] hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets]

    ...................

    CONCLUSION: It is very clear that JESUS, PAUL and JAMES are all in agreement that the two GREAT COMMANDMENTS of LOVE that JESUS quoted from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 were used and known in the OLD Testament scripture to sum up our duty of LOVE to God and man in the 10 Commandments.... God's LAW (Ten commandments) is not separated from LOVE it demonstrates it. You cannot have LOVE without fulfilling God's Ten Commandments. [On these two Commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets].

    LOVE is the NEW COVENANT promise to OBEY God's LAW *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. WE enter into God's NEW COVENANT to LOVE unless we are BORN AGAIN...

    JOHN 3:3-7
    [3], Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    WHY do we need to be born again? As shown through the scriptures we have no LOVE.

    1 JOHN 4:7-8 [7], Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God. [8], He that loves not knows not God; for God is love.

    NOTE: Sound familiar? 1 JOHN 2:1-4; 1 JOHN 3:6; 1 JOHN 3:9 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

    1 JOHN 4:12 No man has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and his love is perfected in us.

    1 JOHN 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.

    1 JOHN 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar [JESUS says they gave committed murder in their heart -Matthew 5:20-22] for he that loves not his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

    1 JOHN 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. [ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS - MATTHEW 22:36-40]

    Continuing.

    [4], Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
    [5], Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    [6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    [7], Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again.

    He that is BORN of GOD does not commit sin because sin is breaking how God's LOVE is EXPRESSED through OBEDIENCE to God's WORD. This is expressed in a different way in 1 JOHN 3..

    1 JOHN 3:3-10 [3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
    [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    [5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    [6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
    [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

    [8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    [9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    [10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

    NONE LOVE GOD or their fellow man while breaking any of God's 10 COMMANDMENTS as LOVE is an EXPRESSION of OBEYING them. You cannot separate the 10 Commandments from LOVE they are the very expression of what LOVE is and LOVE is the fulfilling of them under the NEW COVENANT promise * HEBREWS 8:10-12

    Everything written in these last two posts are the CONTEXT you leave out of 1 JOHN 3:23.

    RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

    .............

    God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

    In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

    God bless.
     
  19. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  20. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Hello LGW.

    You said.
    We will read your quotation (James 2:18-20) in context.

    James 2:15-17
    If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

    The work identified here is loving others, looking after others.

    Then we have your quotation.

    James 2:18-20
    But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

    So it is not difficult to see that the works that James is referring to are the commandments that John spoke of.

    Loving your others means that you will not ignore the hardship and need of others. Then we read this verse that follows your quotation.

    James 2:22
    You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.

    True faith in Jesus means true love towards others, perfect faith is faith in action. James is not teaching faith and works saves, James is teaching that the faith that saves is not an idle faith, the perfect faith is love.
     
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