SO THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT TEACHES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED? THEN WHO SHOULD WE BELIEVE

[klutedavid]

Tell that to your brother Lovegodsword that says he doens't say people are not saved because of rhe sabbath.

Not saved only if they know that breaking the Sabbath is a sin.

 

[NBB]

Not saved only if they know that breaking the Sabbath is a sin.

Do you believe that?
It doesn't make sense, if they believe that, then don't tell anyone about the sabbath so they are saved without keeping it.... very rational no?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you believe that?
It doesn't make sense, if they believe that, then don't tell anyone about the sabbath so they are saved without keeping it.... very rational no?

JAMES 4:17; ACTS 17:30-31

 

[klutedavid]

LOVE is not separate to Gods' LAW. LOVE is the very expression of God's LAW and how we are to LOVE GOD and LOVE our fellow man and is why JESUS says on these two great commandments of LOVE HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets...

MATTHEW 22:36-40
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.
[40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

NOTE: Jesus when asked this question from the Lawyer is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Finishes by saying that on the two great commandments of LOVE hang all the law and the prophets.

What does v40 mean?

LUKE 10:25-28
[25], And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tested him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
[26], He said unto him, what is written in the law? how read you?
[27], And he [the Lawyer] answering said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself.
[28], And he said unto him, you have answered right: this do, and you shall live.

NOTE: The lawyer knew what it means to love God and love his neighbore. How? Notice the question that the lawyer starts os by asking Jesus; "WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?". Now notice that the very same question is asked again and look how Jesus answers...

MATTHEW 19:16-19
[16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
[18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, YOU SHALL DO NO MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT LIE, [19], HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and you shall love your neighbour as yourself.
Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

NOTE: Notice in that the question from the rich young ruler is the very same question as asked by the lawyer "WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?" but both were answered by Jesus in a different way. When the Lawer asked the question he answered his own question by saying LOVE to GOD and LOVE to his neighbor (from Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Jesus said he answered correctly. When the rich yound ruler asked the same question Jesus answered by saying keep the 10 Commandments and starts out quoting them as his duty of LOVE to his neighbor.

Is this a contradiction of scripture? In no way the answer has already been given in MATTHEW 22:36-40. ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (LOVE TO GOD and LOVE TO MAN) HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOUR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbor...

* We will honor our parents,
* We will not kill them
* We will not commit adultery with thier spouse
* We will not steal from them
* We will not lie to them
* We will not covet what they own.

If we LOVE our God...

* We will not have other Gods
* We will not make idols and worship them
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain
* We will remember his Sabbath and keep it holy.

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [OF LOVE] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

PAUL understood what JESUS was talking about...

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law.

Notice what PAUL says here? LOVE is fulfilling [doing] God's Commandments. God's Commandments or duty towards your neighbor is summed up as you shall LOVE your neighbor as yourself v9. [On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets Matthew 22:40].

PAUL agrees with Jesus that if you LOVE you will fulfill God's LAW. What about JAMES?

JAMES 2:8-12
[8] If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself [Sums up our duty of love in the 10 Commandments Romans 13:9] , you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is using the second great commandment of LOVE which hangs all the commandments of our duty of love to our neighbour and quotes the commandments showing our duty towards our neighbor. This is why Jesus says “On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets” Matthew 22:40. and again..

JOHN 14:15 [15], IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

You cannot separate LOVE from God’s LAW. Love is the FULFILLING of it and is demonstrated by OBEDIENCE to Gods’ LAW as our duty of LOVE to God and man. [“On these two commandments [of LOVE] hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets]

...................

CONCLUSION: It is very clear that JESUS, PAUL and JAMES are all in agreement that the two GREAT COMMANDMENTS of LOVE that JESUS quoted from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 were used and known in the OLD Testament scripture to sum up our duty of LOVE to God and man in the 10 Commandments.... God's LAW (Ten commandments) is not separated from LOVE it demonstrates it. You cannot have LOVE without fulfilling God's Ten Commandments. [On these two Commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets].

LOVE is the NEW COVENANT promise to OBEY God's LAW *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. WE enter into God's NEW COVENANT to LOVE unless we are BORN AGAIN...

JOHN 3:3-7
[3], Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

WHY do we need to be born again? As shown through the scriptures we have no LOVE.

1 JOHN 4:7-8 [7], Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God. [8], He that loves not knows not God; for God is love.

NOTE: Sound familiar? 1 JOHN 2:1-4; 1 JOHN 3:6; 1 JOHN 3:9 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40.

1 JOHN 4:12 No man has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 JOHN 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.

1 JOHN 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar [JESUS says they gave committed murder in their heart -Matthew 5:20-22] for he that loves not his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

1 JOHN 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. [ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS - MATTHEW 22:36-40]

Continuing.

[4], Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5], Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7], Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again.

He that is BORN of GOD does not commit sin because sin is breaking how God's LOVE is EXPRESSED through OBEDIENCE to God's WORD. This is expressed in a different way in 1 JOHN 3..

1 JOHN 3:3-10 [3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
[4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

NONE LOVE GOD or their fellow man while breaking any of God's 10 COMMANDMENTS as LOVE is an EXPRESSION of OBEYING them. You cannot separate the 10 Commandments from LOVE they are the very expression of what LOVE is and LOVE is the fulfilling of them under the NEW COVENANT promise * HEBREWS 8:10-12

Everything written in these last two posts are the CONTEXT you leave out of 1 JOHN 3:23.

RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

God bless.

That is your interpretation LGW, that is not what John is talking about. How do I know this?

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Your ceremonial law is as follows.

Exodus 22:22
You shall not afflict any widow or orphan.

You ignore this sin because you call it a ceremonial law and not a moral law. You do not see this as a commandment and so you reject the welfare and the justice, that orphans and widows deserve.

James says that perfect religion is looking after widows and orphans. You say perfect religion is resting on Saturday because that is the name of your church. You only ever really talk about one commandment.

This commandment above (Exodus 22:22) that God gave to Israel is not in your list of your ten commandments. The gravity of afflicting widows and orphans is under valued by your church, the fact that you never even mention it is astounding.

Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress...

 

[klutedavid]

Do you believe that?
It doesn't make sense, if they believe that, then don't tell anyone about the sabbath so they are saved without keeping it.... very rational no?

I'm not under the written law of Mt Sinai, so in my eyes their interpretation is void. I am under the teaching that the apostles gave to the churches in Acts 15.

I follow the commandments given by the apostle Paul and the apostle John.

I do not confuse the written law given to Israel with the commandments given to the Gentiles.

That is what they teach, once you have been told that breaking the Sabbath is sin, then you are unrighteous.

They are the only true church and all other churches are deceived. That is an old line but still in use today for some reason.

They teach that we will endure an investigative judgement, our sins stack up. Especially repeated failure to obey that fourth commandment.

 

[klutedavid]

JAMES 4:17; ACTS 17:30-31

To perfectly love is to look after widows and orphans according to James. Perfect love towards widows and orphans is the very pinnacle of a perfect faith.

Afflicting widows and orphans is a profound sin to commit, neglecting widows and orphans is the very essence of sin.

If you want a perfect and righteous faith look after the needy and especially the weakest you can find. I cannot think of a more neglected member of society than an orphan.

That is what James said in his letter.

 

[ace of hearts]

Sorry brother, I missed this part. What does God's 4th commandment of His 10 commandments say? Let's have alook at it.

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT (refers back to GENESIS 2:1-3 when God made the Sabbath at creation).

A servant is anything that does the bidding of another. The reality is the person who runs the generator so one can buy electricity is their servant. If the generator isn't running there is no electricity.

 

[ace of hearts]

I don't believe we are free from it and that we should honor the rules of it such as no work, etc. But I don't believe it is a certain day. There are passages in the bible that speak generally of the Sabbath not giving a certain day. I realize that originally it was on a Saturday but again that was mans interpretation. Unless the father is specific to the day I am going with honoring the Sabbath on the day that I will, for me it is Sunday. You can believe as you want. I don't believe God would be happy with us in always arguing about his word. He wants us to honor his holy day so do it or don't. Still no one answers my question.

Sorry lovegodsword, I usually don't read your posts because they are too long. One paragraph would be so nice but I know that is not a part of you so carry on.
God bless you also and it is Sister.

I thought so.

 

[ace of hearts]

God's WORD defines what the Sabbath is so we do not have to. God's WORD says..

EXODUS 20:10 [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God

This links back to the SEVENTH DAY of the creation week...

GENESIS 2:1-3
1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2, And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
3, And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and SANCTIFIED IT <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

It is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. According to God's WORD if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God or sin *JAMES 2:10-11

God bless.

Not by Gen 2.

 

[ace of hearts]

The Scripture says that the Law is our tutor until we come to Christ. But we don't have a lot of that in our evangelism any more, and I think that this leads to easy believerism where many put on the Christian badge and think that just joining a church, doing all the religious stuff, and trying to live a moral life will get them into heaven. Over 80 percent of Charles Finney's converts continued in the faith for life, and I think it is because they were given a clear and strong conviction of sin through his preaching. He preached Law to sinners, exactly the same as you are saying in your posts.

Paul said it was the knowledge of the Law that brings the knowledge of sin, and the reality that a sinner violates the Law gives him the knowledge that he is a sinner, subject to the wrath of God and deserving of hell. Then once that person cries out, "What shall I do to be saved?" Then, the good news of the gospel of Christ can be shared with them.

The problem with a lot of today's evangelism is that the good news of the gospel is shared before a good dose of the Law. Easy believerism says, "Become a Christian and life will be sweet, and all your sins will be forgiven. The trouble is that it breeds self-righteous, religious, "holier than thou" people who think they are on the way to heaven, when in reality, they have never been really convicted of their own sinfulness and have never been brought to the place where they have cried out to God for mercy and grace. A lot of the easy believers tend to backslide when they get sick of religion, want to keep their pet sins, or someone in the church gets on their wick.

That's the main problem with rose garden religion. They only think about the bloom. They never think about what causes those lovely blooms. I don't think there's a rose gardener that hasn't been stuck by one of those thorns.

 

[ace of hearts]

The most important thing to consider with any of this discussion is that who do we believe and follow; the WORD of GOD or the teachings and traditions of men? JESUS says all those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29. God is calling his people wherever they maybe out from following man made traditons back to the Word of God.

God bless

Did you say discussion?

 

[ace of hearts]

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God)

Yes we do.

 

[ace of hearts]

ROMANS 14 is talking about eating and not eating connected to days that men esteem over other days, not what days God esteems. The things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes.

LUKE 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God

There is no mention in all of ROMANS 14 of God's 4th commandment of any of God's 10

God bless.

Only if you have no regard for a day.

 

[Hammster]

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. No one is following the Gospel if they are living a life of known unrepentant sin.

God bless

You give man’s teaching. I point people to the gospel, not the burdensome yolk you try to put on people.

 

[ace of hearts]

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God)

Yes we do.

 

[ace of hearts]

Sadly it seems some people are getting personal and judgmental now and posting things that have no truth in them. Does anyone wish to address the op and the questions in them? If not I am out for a while as the discussion has gone down hill a little and away from the OP and the Word of God.

God bless.

Evidently not.

 

[ace of hearts]

Ok, but what you teach is important, if you teach people are not saved if they do not keep the sabbath, you are basically saying that a lot of christians are not saved because of just that!

Exactly!

 

[ace of hearts]

I do not teach people are not saved if they do not keep the Sabbath. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. According to God's WORD; OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. In times of IGNORANCE when someone does not know something is SIN God winks at but when he gives us a KNOWLEDGE of his WORD he expects us to BELIEVE and FOLLOW it *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17.

God bless.

What is this unrepentant sin you vaguely refer to?

 

[RexHall]

Well, let's face it. The only church that is preaching what you are preaching about the absolute need to keep the Ten Commandments and especially the Sabbath commandment is the SDA church. You are PREACHING using uppercase and bold type to make the point that everyone who is not observing the Saturday Sabbath is in disobedience to GODS WORD and therefore in UNREPENTANT SIN.

Therefore, according to your theology, and you are strongly implying that SDA theology is God's Word, if you are to be absolutely honest, and every other Christian church is involved in unrepentant sin and therefore going to hell.

Come on! Stop beating around the bush and say what you really mean!

Not true. There are many groups in this present time as well as in the past who worship on the Sabbath and follow the Ten Commandments such as the Seventh Day Baptists, the Messianics, some non-denominationals ect.

 

[trophy33]

Not true. There are many groups in this present time as well as in the past who worship on the Sabbath and follow the Ten Commandments such as the Seventh Day Baptists, the Messianics, some non-denominationals ect.

But these groups are totally insignificant in numbers or regarding general Christianity.

They are like flat eathers - loud, visible, but insignificant, ignored (or laughed at) by the rest.