So, just what was the Buffalo shooter's political ideology? [in his own words]

[JosephZ]

Was there a particular event or reason you decided to commit to a violent attack?
Before I begin I will say that I was not born racist nor grew up to be racist. I simply became racist after I learned the truth. I started browsing 4chan in May 2020 after extreme boredom, remember this was during the outbreak of covid. I would normally browse /k/ because I’m a gun nut and /out/ because I love the outdoors and I eventually wound up on /pol/. There I learned through infographics, sh**posts, and memes that the White race is dying out, that blacks are disproportionately killing Whites, that the average black takes $700,000 from tax-payers in their lifetime, and that the Jews and the elite were behind this. From there, I also found other sites, like w**********.website, d********.org, and **********.cn where through data and exposure to real information I learned the truth. We are doomed by low birth rates and high rates of immigration. I never even saw this information until I found these sites, since mostly I would get my news from the frontpage of Reddit. I didn’t care at the time, but as I learned more and more I realized how serious the situation was. Eventually I couldn’t take it anymore, I told myself that eventually I was going to kill myself to escape this fate. My race was doomed and there was nothing I could do about it. But then after browsing /pol/ one day I saw a short gif of a man walking into a building and shooting a shotgun through a dark hallway. I didn’t think anything of it, but then I saw it again, and I looked up who this person was. I thought to myself, “Why did this person do it?” That person was Brenton Tarrant, and after some searches I found the 17 minute livestream of him attacking the Al-Noor mosque. I eventually found his manifesto and I read it, and I found that I mostly agreed with him. Finally I thought to myself, perhaps there is a chance that we can combat this. Maybe there is a chance that we can take control and prevent our genocide. Maybe we can combat the hedonistic, nihilistic, and individualist insanity that has taken control western thought. I then found other fighters, like Patrick Crucius, Anders Breivek, Dylann Roof, and John Earnest. These men fought for me and had the same goals I did. It was there I asked myself: Why don’t I do something? Finally I felt awakened. It was there I started to think about committing to an attack. To commit to violence. I would follow Tarrant’s lead and the attacks of so many others like him. No longer would I just accept our replacement. No longer would I just accept our genocide. No longer will I willingly serve the people who are trying to end me and my race. I would have to take the fight to the replacers myself.


In addition to the above, there were 21 pages filled with nothing but rightwing and neo-Nazi propaganda that I will not share here.

 

[Aldebaran]

No. This guy massacred ten people because he thought that 'legacy Americans' were having their 'culture' and their 'political rights' taken away from them. Not just that they were losing them. But that they are actually being purposely removed.

Anyone who thinks like that can be equated to this guy. Anyone who pushes this garbage or chants it while marching with torches or writes or broadcasts such gutter level racist comments that seemingly passes for political debate these days can be equated to him.

Ah, but CRT! Ah, but BLM! Ah, but National Socialism! Marx! Illegal immigrants! Stronger borders! What? Just...what?

Why not just call out what he did and why he did it for what it is? Evil.

I agree with your last sentence. That's why the "Ah, but Trump supporters", and "Ah, but Ultra-MAGA", and "Ah, but all these guns!" is out of place.
This guy did something evil and should be prosecuted for it. Plain and simple. The politicization of it by people like biden and others is inappropriate.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I agree with your last sentence. That's why the "Ah, but Trump supporters", and "Ah, but Ultra-MAGA", and "Ah, but all these guns!" is out of place.
This guy did something evil and should be prosecuted for it. Plain and simple. The politicization of it by people like biden and others is inappropriate.

Calling white supremacy "right wing" isn't politicization any more than calling communism "left wing" is - they're both statements of fact. If he was blaming Republicans, then I would agree with you, but he isn't.

Being on the political right does not mean that you agree with all right-wing beliefs, just like being on the political left does not mean that you agree with all left-wing beliefs.

 

[NightHawkeye]

When he was 12.

Yes, an admitted communist at age 12.

From the shooter's manifesto at age 18:

Ok. Glad to get the most recent update.

Did you always hold these views? When I was 12 I was deep into communist ideology, talk to anyone from my old high school and ask about me and you will hear that. From age 15 to 18 however, I consistently moved farther to the right. On the political compass I fall in the mild-moderate authoritarian left category, and I would prefer to be called a populist.

What are your views? I would prefer to call myself a populist. But you can call me an ethno-nationalist eco-fascist national socialist if you want, I wouldn’t disagree with you.

Which is curiously exactly what I posted in the OP.

I was ready to change my opinion based on what you posted, but it seems that the shooter still sees himself as "leftist", just less so than when he was younger.

It seems really unfortunate that he never considered personal liberty as being of value ... and needed to continue to think in terms of some collective. Initially, it was communism but that changed at some point to thinking in terms of a "white collective". It seems difficult to even call it white supremacy, since he was thinking in terms of stopping the annihilation of whites.

Had he been introduced to the concept of personal liberty and detaching himself from collective ideology he might have become a productive member of society, instead of seeking to destroy.

Sad, not just for him, but especially so for his victims and their families.

 

[Aldebaran]

Calling white supremacy "right wing" isn't politicization any more than calling communism "left wing" is - they're both statements of fact. If he was blaming Republicans, then I would agree with you, but he isn't.

Being on the political right does not mean that you agree with all right-wing beliefs, just like being on the political left does not mean that you agree with all left-wing beliefs.

I've seen biden and his people attempt to tie anything to do with violence and white supremacy to Republicans enough times to know better.

 

[JosephZ]

I was ready to change my opinion based on what you posted, but it seems that the shooter still sees himself as "leftist", just less so than when he was younger.

I was hoping what I shared from the shooter's manifesto would have erased any doubt that he is a rightwing extremist, despite the few sentences you shared in the OP being included. If I were to post the 21 pages of rightwing and neo-Nazi propaganda included in the manifesto, it would no doubt change your opinion, but it's too vile and I have no desire to expose others to it. There's also a couple of pages where he posts about how he thinks the white race is superior to others, but I felt that was too offensive to post also.

 

[NightHawkeye]

I was hoping what I shared from the shooter's manifesto would have erased any doubt that he is a rightwing extremist ...

Let me ask you this question, why is it important to you to label the shooter as a "right-wing" extremist, even though he clearly self-identified as a leftist.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Let me ask you this question, why is it important to you to label the shooter as a "right-wing" extremist, even though he clearly self-identified as a leftist.

Let me ask you a question: why is it so important to you to label the shooter as a "leftist" when he used right-wing extremist rhetoric to justify his actions? That seems to have been your entire purpose for making this thread.

For the record, on the "official" political compass, "Left" and "Right" refer to the economic axis of the chart. It doesn't have anything to do with social policy - that's handled by the vertical axis (Authoritarian-Libertarian). So someone who is racist but hates corporations would end up somewhere in the "Authoritarian Left" quadrant. Ultimately, it's a better way of categorizing people than simply "left" or "right", but it still drastically oversimplifies things and should never be taken as the final arbiter of what to call people. After all, they plot Joe Biden as pretty far into the Authoritarian Right quadrant. Would you consider him a right-winger?

 

[Bradskii]

I agree with your last sentence. That's why the "Ah, but Trump supporters", and "Ah, but Ultra-MAGA", and "Ah, but all these guns!" is out of place.
This guy did something evil and should be prosecuted for it. Plain and simple. The politicization of it by people like biden and others is inappropriate.

Good grief...

It's not just what he did. It's why he did it! If he'd just have come up with this deplorable 'theory' himself then it would have been discounted as the ramblings of a madman. Just as it was after the tragedy in Christchurch.

But this 'theory' has now, as you very well know, become not just the twisted reasonings of a sick individual or something promoted by torch bearing white supremacist scum but pushed as a fact by people who have positions whereby they can peddle this racist bile to millions. They spend hours trying to convince people it's true.

And there are too many people that are too ignorant to be able to reject it as any reasonable person would. And there are some of those who will turn to violence to try to protect what they have been told is their right.

I don't care - I literally don't care, what political position anyone takes who promotes (and a acts on) this racist garbage. It's a deplorable position to take whoever takes it. So in that regard you are right. It shouldn't be politicised. But it needs to be called out for what it is. So if some Democrat gives some indication that he supports it then rip into him and call him or her out. And do the same if it's a Republican. Do the same if you don't know the politics of anyone who pushes it. You don't need to know.

 

[Bradskii]

Let me ask you this question, why is it important to you to label the shooter as a "right-wing" extremist, even though he clearly self-identified as a leftist.

It doesn't matter what he classes himslef as. It really doesn't matter. Reading some of what he had written (and I really didn't want to do that as it seems to me that I'm giving it some credence simply by doing so), then it's obvious that he's not intelligent enough to formulate any position on any political scale you'd care to post. His so-called beliefs are literally off the scale.

You could never engage the guy in a political debate. If he was in a bar and spouted some of the bile that he wrote then you'd avoid him like the plague. You'd obviously treat him like the low level moronic extremist he is. And if I was having a beer with you then we'd both agree that his views are abhorrent. But do you then accuse me of denigrating the right? Does it become a political argument?

This is beyond politics. This is extremism of the worst kind. It has no place in any decent society. Democrats and Republicans should be shoulder to shoulder in denouncing this evil. And it's your duty, as a member of that decent society, to join them.

 

[Aldebaran]

Good grief...

It's not just what he did. It's why he did it! If he'd just have come up with this deplorable 'theory' himself then it would have been discounted as the ramblings of a madman. Just as it was after the tragedy in Christchurch.

But this 'theory' has now, as you very well know, become not just the twisted reasonings of a sick individual or something promoted by torch bearing white supremacist scum but pushed as a fact by people who have positions whereby they can peddle this racist bile to millions. They spend hours trying to convince people it's true.

And there are too many people that are too ignorant to be able to reject it as any reasonable person would. And there are some of those who will turn to violence to try to protect what they have been told is their right.

I don't care - I literally don't care, what political position anyone takes who promotes (and a acts on) this racist garbage. It's a deplorable position to take whoever takes it. So in that regard you are right. It shouldn't be politicised. But it needs to be called out for what it is. So if some Democrat gives some indication that he supports it then rip into him and call him or her out. And do the same if it's a Republican. Do the same if you don't know the politics of anyone who pushes it. You don't need to know.

I haven't heard anyone speak in support of the shooter.

 

[Aldebaran]

This is beyond politics. This is extremism of the worst kind. It has no place in any decent society. Democrats and Republicans should be shoulder to shoulder in denouncing this evil. And it's your duty, as a member of that decent society, to join them.

Here's the problem though, and we've seen this way too many times in this country....a gunman goes out and does something like this, and then the politicians (usually on the Left) come out to exploit it for their gain by making it look as if it's people on the other side of the political isle who are responsible for it. If the two sides were to come to an agreement about that, then the next question is, "What do we do about it?". The answer has always been to limit free speech (for conservatives), and further infringe on gun rights.

The same politicization happened when the Sacramento shootings happened. Gun bans were called for. Responsibility was assigned to entire groups of people. Problem is, it was a gang shooting between 2 notorious gangs in the area. So who's rights should be lost because of people who are already known criminals?

 

[Bradskii]

Here's the problem though, and we've seen this way too many times in this country....a gunman goes out and does something like this, and then the politicians (usually on the Left) come out to exploit it for their gain by making it look as if it's people on the other side of the political isle who are responsible for it. If the two sides were to come to an agreement about that, then the next question is, "What do we do about it?". The answer has always been to limit free speech (for conservatives), and further infringe on gun rights.

The same politicization happened when the Sacramento shootings happened. Gun bans were called for. Responsibility was assigned to entire groups of people. Problem is, it was a gang shooting between 2 notorious gangs in the area. So who's rights should be lost because of people who are already known criminals?

Then let's not politicise this. We both know that there are extremists on both side of politics. And there are some positions that are simply too extreme to be classed as (in the case of the US) Democrat or Republican. You and I should both call out whoever is pushing this bile.

Let's take Tucker Carlson. He is one of the most influential people in the media and he has been pushing this racist crud for months. That he's doing it to discredit the Democratic parrty is only incidental. He must be called out on it because of what it is. Not for why he is doing it. If he was a Democrat (and I was as well) I'd denounce him for doing what he's doing. I wouldn't want him anywhere near my party. He is literally risking people's lives by peddling this evil. People have died because of what he's been doing. And there will be more.

It's an evil that should have been consigned to the refuse tip of history decades ago. It has no place in a modern society. We need to condemn it and the people who push it. It's our responsibility to do so.

 

[Aldebaran]

Then let's not politicise this. We both know that there are extremists on both side of politics. And there are some positions that are simply too extreme to be classed as (in the case of the US) Democrat or Republican. You and I should both call out whoever is pushing this bile.

Let's take Tucker Carlson. He is one of the most influential people in the media and he has been pushing this racist crud for months. That he's doing it to discredit the Democratic parrty is only incidental. He must be called out on it because of what it is. Not for why he is doing it. If he was a Democrat (and I was as well) I'd denounce him for doing what he's doing. I wouldn't want him anywhere near my party. He is literally risking people's lives by peddling this evil. People have died because of what he's been doing. And there will be more.

It's an evil that should have been consigned to the refuse tip of history decades ago. It has no place in a modern society. We need to condemn it and the people who push it. It's our responsibility to do so.

Some definitions are needed here. What is "this evil" you're referring to? Shooting people in a grocery store certainly qualifies, but I don't know of anyone who is peddling it.

 

[Bradskii]

Some definitions are needed here. What is "this evil" you're referring to? Shooting people in a grocery store certainly qualifies, but I don't know of anyone who is peddling it.

Please don't treat me like an idiot. I'd really appreciate it.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Was there a particular event or reason you decided to commit to a violent attack?
Before I begin I will say that I was not born racist nor grew up to be racist. I simply became racist after I learned the truth. I started browsing 4chan in May 2020 after extreme boredom, remember this was during the outbreak of covid. I would normally browse /k/ because I’m a gun nut and /out/ because I love the outdoors and I eventually wound up on /pol/. There I learned through infographics, sh**posts, and memes that the White race is dying out, that blacks are disproportionately killing Whites, that the average black takes $700,000 from tax-payers in their lifetime, and that the Jews and the elite were behind this. From there, I also found other sites, like w**********.website, d********.org, and **********.cn where through data and exposure to real information I learned the truth. We are doomed by low birth rates and high rates of immigration. I never even saw this information until I found these sites, since mostly I would get my news from the frontpage of Reddit. I didn’t care at the time, but as I learned more and more I realized how serious the situation was. Eventually I couldn’t take it anymore, I told myself that eventually I was going to kill myself to escape this fate. My race was doomed and there was nothing I could do about it. But then after browsing /pol/ one day I saw a short gif of a man walking into a building and shooting a shotgun through a dark hallway. I didn’t think anything of it, but then I saw it again, and I looked up who this person was. I thought to myself, “Why did this person do it?” That person was Brenton Tarrant, and after some searches I found the 17 minute livestream of him attacking the Al-Noor mosque. I eventually found his manifesto and I read it, and I found that I mostly agreed with him. Finally I thought to myself, perhaps there is a chance that we can combat this. Maybe there is a chance that we can take control and prevent our genocide. Maybe we can combat the hedonistic, nihilistic, and individualist insanity that has taken control western thought. I then found other fighters, like Patrick Crucius, Anders Breivek, Dylann Roof, and John Earnest. These men fought for me and had the same goals I did. It was there I asked myself: Why don’t I do something? Finally I felt awakened. It was there I started to think about committing to an attack. To commit to violence. I would follow Tarrant’s lead and the attacks of so many others like him. No longer would I just accept our replacement. No longer would I just accept our genocide. No longer will I willingly serve the people who are trying to end me and my race. I would have to take the fight to the replacers myself.


In addition to the above, there were 21 pages filled with nothing but rightwing and neo-Nazi propaganda that I will not share here.

Where did you find this? I've been trying to find the whole thing, but have been unable to.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Let me ask you a question: why is it so important to you to label the shooter as a "leftist" when he used right-wing extremist rhetoric to justify his actions? That seems to have been your entire purpose for making this thread.

That's not what I did.

I've been clear that the shooter regarded himself as a leftist. He was quite clear about first embracing communism and then modifying that collectivist thinking to national socialism.

For the record, on the "official" political compass, "Left" and "Right" refer to the economic axis of the chart. It doesn't have anything to do with social policy - that's handled by the vertical axis (Authoritarian-Libertarian).

Incorrect.

The horizontal axis is labeled socialism (extreme left) and corporatism (extreme right). The horizontal axis includes all manner of social policies.

I am fascinated that you now say the vertical "Liberty/Tyranny" axis is the social policy axis. (Not that I fully agree but for the sake of discussion let's see where that leads.)

Under your assumption, given that Communism and Fascism (many regard National Socialism as a form of fascism) are labeled right next to each other at the bottom of the vertical axis, it would seem that there's little point in arguing right-wing/left-wing in regards to the shooter's socio-political philosophy. The shooter's thinking would have shifted little in moving from communism to National Socialism.

So someone who is racist but hates corporations would end up somewhere in the "Authoritarian Left" quadrant.

... and the shooter clearly stated his hatred for corporations.

So ... given that that places the shooter in the "Authoritarian Left" quadrant, it would seem that his self-description is accurate.

Ultimately, it's a better way of categorizing people than simply "left" or "right", but it still drastically oversimplifies things and should never be taken as the final arbiter of what to call people.

Doesn't current political thinking generally require us to use one's self-assessment ... without argument?

After all, they plot Joe Biden as pretty far into the Authoritarian Right quadrant. Would you consider him a right-winger?

So far as I can tell, Biden's main political philosophy is one of personal enrichment.

He has that in common with many tyrants. One could reasonably argue, I suppose, similarities with both the extreme left and the extreme right ... which, as we seem to have reached agreement, have many similarities.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Incorrect.

The horizontal axis is labeled socialism (extreme left) and corporatism (extreme right). The horizontal axis includes all manner of social policies.

I am fascinated that you now say the vertical "Liberty/Tyranny" axis is the social policy axis. (Not that I fully agree but for the sake of discussion let's see where that leads.)

I'm not sure where you got the political compass you posted earlier from, but it doesn't include the shooter's "Authoritarian Left" designation, so it's completely irrelevant. The "official" one that the shooter referenced is this one:
The Political Compass

 

[grasping the after wind]

It's because what is being promoted is not based on reality. It's because what is being promoted is racist. It's because what is being promoted is that unless you are 'legacy' Anglo American, you are not welcome here. It's because it's no different than the white supremacists at Charlotsville marching with torches and chanting 'The Jews will not replace us'. When was the last time we saw anything like that!

But now it's not just white thugs chanting this. We have people in positions of responsibility promoting it as fact. They are warning those whonsupport them that 'the other side' is intentionally tryingnto disenfranchise them.

I've been following politics for decades and this is by far the lowest point anywhere that political discourse has reached. It's not even gutter politics. It's beneath that. It's beneath contempt.

I agree that there is an awful lot of what I see being promoted on the right and most especially on the left is not based upon reality. Does that mean anyone other than a deranged person that commits heinous act should feel guilty that the deranged person committed that heinous act? From my perspective, expecting people to consider themselves culpable of something they did not do or even ask to be done is an expectation not based in reality.

 

[grasping the after wind]

It is amazing that some here seem to feel there are only TWO sides to the political spectrum ... as if one side unerringly encompasses all that is good and just, while the other side must encompass all that is bad and unjust.

Such a stance makes rational discourse ... all but impossible.

To have a rational discourse both parties must recognize the difference between reality and fantasy.