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So did Trump only help to boost Kim's image on the world stage?

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Mountainmanbob, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. Yes

    25 vote(s)
    75.8%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    21.2%
  3. Kim's image matters not -- America first

    1 vote(s)
    3.0%
  1. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +7,313
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    ????????

    Comments?

    M-Bob
     
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  2. cow451

    cow451 Individual-2 Supporter

    +12,019
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    Donald Trump: the only person on the planet that can make a murderous dictator look good.
     
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  3. Nithavela

    Nithavela confused

    +10,289
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    He boosted Kims image for me, thats for sure.

    Or, to be more precise, he enabled Kim to boost it himself.
     
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  4. Nithavela

    Nithavela confused

    +10,289
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    Duterte, Putin, Orban.
     
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  5. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

    +3,469
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    Hi MM,

    Why would anyone be surprised at how President Trump handled this. He's been known to just get up and walk out of discussions before. Gathering up all of his little toys and going home to aggrandize himself before his minions. It's pretty standard Trumpism.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  6. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,392
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    I don't know enough about what Kim was offering. Or maybe my reading does make things clear.

    It seems Kim wanted Donald to lift economic sanctions, claiming this was so civilian people could get relief. But he was not expecting armament sanctions to be lifted.

    And in return for lifting of economic sanctions the Yongbyon facility would be closed.

    But closing that facility would not put an end to all nuclear weapons in North Korea.

    And the U.S. concern is that giving them economic relief can make money available for North Korea to invest in nuke development. So, even if it might somehow make things nicer for the civies, that might be more or less in appearance only, while money of trade really goes to regime stuff.

    So, claiming the sanctions lift could be for the civilians could be clever.

    And it is said that Kim was surprised that the United States knows about stuff they did not know the U.S. knows. So, may be he was supposing that closing the facility would trick the U.S. into supposing a lot or most of nuke potential had been stopped.

    But Donald has said he expects all nuclear stuff to be stopped, not only part. But Kim did a switch to another possibility, and perhaps supposed Donald did not know about a few items.

    So, whether or not I buy how Donald is as a person, it seems he has kept clear about what he is going after, and Kim tried to make a switch, and there are people who are willing to misrepresent this, in order to discredit Donald. But in case we don't approve of Donald, we do not need to misrepresent things.

    By the way, I am not going only by Donald's quotes :) lolololololololololololol

    And, of course, I only have what I read on the Net. So, thank you for however you take the time to deal with what I have considered.
     
  7. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

    +16,294
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    Of course. According to Donald, Kim is a trustworthy leader who loves his people and wa.ts to do right by them.
     
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  8. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    No just a little off there possibly more homework needed.
    M-Bob
     
  9. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

    +3,210
    Deist
    US-Libertarian
    Kim got nothing. He is slaved to China. His country could benefit by disengaging from totalitarianism and joining the free international community in commerce and cultural exchange.
     
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  10. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

    +6,559
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    Kim's body language, that of 'mirroring' Trump, indicated that he was both enamored of Trump, and intimidated. Trump owns every stage he appears on. Kim, not so much.
     
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  11. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,786
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    Apparently, Kim asked/demanded the ending of the relatively recent UN sanctions, while leaving all the other sanctions as a subject for future deals.

     
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  12. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist Supporter

    +5,777
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    His country could but be would not. North Korea has been described as a hostage situation and the Kim is no less a hostage than the millions he has enslaved. If he loosened the screws he will meet a similar fate as Ceausescu.
     
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  13. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,413
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    Celibate
    This.

    Kim is still a dictator, so you can't really boost the image of a dictator who allegedly indiscriminately kills. However, negotiating firm terms with the US that don't involve the country being *ahem* altered in some way means that N. Korea is no longer a "little rogue nation". Add on to it its nuclear technology...


    The world will have to recognize N. Korea for what it is now. The N. Korean leader can now begin to check out enemies of the States, and even the competition - like China and Japan. This could very well be the first steps in uniting the Korean peninsula and Japan - even without a shot fired. Once S. Korea sees how little the US may have its back, it may decide "reconciliation" and a union of the Koreas would work best. This is especially true if N. Korea can show it can function without Daddy China and Mother Russia.
     
  14. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,392
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    Single
    Hmm . . . I now think of this. If North Korea became like South Korea, this would mean economic competition with China.

    So, now I can see why during the active Korean War so many Chinese soldiers were sent to be killed in fighting Americans.

    And China has nukes, and is an ally of North Korea. So, might this effect if the United States is willing to invade North Korea???? Iraq didn't have anyone to back them up.
     
  15. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

    +9,562
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    And Trump also said that he certainly wasn't responsible for the man's death. Leader orders the death of people? Give them a pass. Football player kneels? THE WORST OF ALL POSSIBLE SINS!
     
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  16. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

    +3,469
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    Hi comfy,

    You wrote:
    I'm still trying to find out who died and made the U.S. king of the world? Doesn't anyone else find it fairly hypocritical that the nation with the largest nuclear weapons stockpile in the world gets to tell other sovereign nations that they can't play? Maybe N. Korea would be more amenable to an agreement if the agreement were the same for both sides.

    I mean, we think we're all nice and good people, although we are the most murderous nation on the face of the planet, and we don't want N. Korea to have nuclear capabilities for fear of what they might do to us. Anybody ever consider that such an idea is probably also the very same thing that a lot of N. Koreans are fearful of that we do get to have such weapons? President Trump has already made a blowhard public statement that if N. Korea were to P him off he'd just blow them off the face of the earth.

    Gosh, I can't imagine that doesn't give N. Koreans the warm fuzzies all over.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  17. cow451

    cow451 Individual-2 Supporter

    +12,019
    United States
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    Riiiiiiiiiight....
    [​IMG]
     
  18. USincognito

    USincognito Milk-Bones for Cerberus is a cool album name Supporter

    +13,571
    United States
    Atheist
    Private
    Kim: This summit only helped boost my image on the world stage.

    Trump: I belive him.
     
  19. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

    +5,112
    Baptist
    We have got to stop playing tic-tac-toe when we need to be playing chess...

    #1) NK has nuclear weapons. Every intelligence agency on the planet believes this to be true. So their development of NK isn't that big a deal, cats already out of the bag.
    #2) In the entire history of totalitarian regimes, being poor has never stopped nuclear development or military buildup. Nations always find a way and totalitarian regimes have no problem starving their own people in order to fund their military.
    #3) NK is never ever going to use nuclear weapons, to do so would be to sign their own death warrants. Similarly, with US, China, Russia, and India detection systems, Intel, etc we'd know if they were seriously going to use nukes. Either way, they will never use them.

    So what does all of the above mean in terms of long term strategy?

    Firstly, NK is never giving up nukes, they can't. To give up nukes would be to give up their own sovereignty because the West would just invade them. They know it, we know it, everyone knows it. Donald threatened them with nuclear annihilation several times. So again, in what sane world would NK ever give up nukes. They can't.

    So where does that leave us? Strategically, why don't we just treat NK like we treat every other nation with nukes? If "we" as in "the West" want to "defeat" NK then we really should follow the model that defeated the USSR and China... ECONOMICS

    We need to introduce Capitalism to NK, or rather, we need to facilitate an environment in which NK benefits economically from Capitalism. We need to turn NK into consumers and in order to do that we need to lift the sanctions.

    but but but... that means NK will have more money for their military and nukes program right?

    Yes. Absolutely, and SO WHAT!!!!

    They already have nukes, their military is inferior, they will NEVER EVER USE NUKES. So who cares? I'm being serious. Logically think it through... If NK could triple their military might and advance their technology by 20 years and triple the amount of nukes they had then NOTHING WOULD CHANGE. It would not make one iota of difference. This is a giant red herring.

    However, what would happen to NK's internal socio-economic-political culture if the standard of living in their country doubled or tripled (which would be easy to do because they are so dirt poor)? What would happen if their people stopped starving and actually had running water and electricity 24/7? What sort of pressure could that apply to NK's leadership?

    Part of the problem is that we in the West our blinded by our Puritan roots... We want Kim Jung Un to be "punished". We do NOT want the leadership of NK to prosper. However, those emotional responses are keeping us from seeing the bigger picture.

    What we have been doing has NOT BEEN WORKING. For as long as living memory, NK has remained the same. They have no commodity to trade other than Saber Rattling and Instability. They trade in terror. If we want things to change we need to change the environment. We need to look at what happened in Russia and China and learn from that. We need to get the North Koreans fat and happy and addicted to McDonalds and Starbucks and watching our Marvel Movies and listening to our Rap Music. That is where we beat, we infect them with our culture and economics just as we've infected everyone else with our fat, lazy, spoiled bratty culture. Once the infection takes root and you incubate with a Decade or two of Capitalism they will be powerless to stop the internal changes which will reek havoc on their system
     
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  20. GoldenBoy89

    GoldenBoy89 We're Still Here

    +15,259
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    Commanding the respect of the President of the United States goes a long way to improving your image.

    Outclassing him puts you in another category altogether.
     
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