So... Creation or Evolution?

[Wryetui]

I have read almost everything on the internet about this since I came to the conclusion that there are better things to focus on , and that God doesn't rely on this subject at all. But still I want to ask, for you guys, without any complicated answers, do you think evolution is the overall truth and that explains everything without any kind of doubt?

In my short life I have seen great engineers, doctors or scientists that were creationists, and I have seen great engineers, doctors and scientists that were evolutionists, so as far as I can see, evidence can be interpreted in many ways.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

'The Pope digs population...'* : "So say we all!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3EzRAgjo_s

~~~
* http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/rodriguez/thisisnotasongitsanoutburstortheestablishmentblues.html

 

[AV1611VET]

But still I want to ask, for you guys, without any complicated answers, do you think evolution is the overall truth and that explains everything without any kind of doubt?

No.

Creation for the win.

 

[Wryetui]

So creation is more reasonable than evolution?

 

[sandybay]

Short of using magic evolution is the best and only explanation we have for how life on this planet came to be as it is today.

 

[High Fidelity]

I have read almost everything on the internet about this since I came to the conclusion that there are better things to focus on

Indeed. The bible says what it says. That's that. Job done.

If we can't believe the first chapter of the bible detailing arguably the most important part of our faith, why should be bother believing anything else?

Forget what your parents have told you. Forget what your pastor, vicar, preacher or father has told you. Forget what your denomination tells you. Read the bible. It's right there unadulterated and undiluted by any man, group or organisation that seeks to further its own interests or beliefs.

 

[sfs]

I have read almost everything on the internet about this since I came to the conclusion that there are better things to focus on , and that God doesn't rely on this subject at all. But still I want to ask, for you guys, without any complicated answers, do you think evolution is the overall truth and that explains everything without any kind of doubt?

I think it's fine to conclude that there are better things to worry about. As for me, I find evolution to be by far the best explanation we have for a wide range of facts about biology.

In my short life I have seen great engineers, doctors or scientists that were creationists, and I have seen great engineers, doctors and scientists that were evolutionists, so as far as I can see, evidence can be interpreted in many ways.

There's a bit of a false equivalency here, I think. Sure, there are scientists who accept evolution and scientists who deny it. But you'll find that the overwhelming majority of scientists, including Christian scientists, do accept evolution, and that is doubly true for biologists.

Evidence can indeed be interpreted in many ways, but after many years of trying, I've yet to find a creationist who will actually interpret genetic data for me (I'm a geneticist). I've found plenty who would tell me, "Oh yes, we all accept the same data, but we interpret it differently," but none of them could actually tell me why DNA looks the way it does. At most they give me reasons to ignore the data, and that's not an approach that makes scientists happy.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Evolution is the heart of Biology - remove it and we'd be back in the Dark Ages.

 

[sandybay]

Read the bible. It's right there unadulterated and undiluted by any man, group or organisation that seeks to further its own interests or beliefs.

Apart from the fact that the books of the Bible were not written in English they were written in Greek and the people being written about in the N/T spoke Aramaic.

 

[Wryetui]

What about sites like creation.com or icr.org?

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

What about sites like creation.com or icr.org?

If you want to do real science, then I'd probably give those a miss.

It's about as bad as one can get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7VsoxT_FUY

 

[Freodin]

I have read almost everything on the internet about this since I came to the conclusion that there are better things to focus on , and that God doesn't rely on this subject at all. But still I want to ask, for you guys, without any complicated answers, do you think evolution is the overall truth and that explains everything without any kind of doubt?

No. Evolution does not explain everything without any kind of doubt.

If you think that it is meant to be, you are wrong... and most likely influenced by the "creation" idea, which is, very often, meant to explain everything without any kind of doubt.

In my short life I have seen great engineers, doctors or scientists that were creationists, and I have seen great engineers, doctors and scientists that were evolutionists, so as far as I can see, evidence can be interpreted in many ways.

Some evidence can. Some cannot. And some "interpretation" is so vague, widespread and fantastic that you can apply it to, literally (literally literally) everything.


Now to answer your question:
If you are looking for a reasonable, consistent and evidenced concept of how the variance of different lifeforms (including humans) came into their (current) existence, Evolution is the way to go.

If you want to have a concept that doesn't challenge any statement of faith that you might make, regardless of basis: ancient religion or modern pseudo-science - stick to "creation".

 

[Wryetui]

I will take none of the options you gave to me, and I will trust God So my answer would be: I will listen to God's word which is the Bible, because the very God that inspired Moses to write the Genesis was the very God that died for my sins, and I prefer to believe Him instead of all the scientists in this world and their "evidence". I trust God as being the creator of all things and I trust His Son as being the only path to salvation

 

[crjmurray]

I will take none of the options you gave to me, and I will trust God So my answer would be: I will listen to God's word which is the Bible, because the very God that inspired Moses to write the Genesis was the very God that died for my sins, and I prefer to believe Him instead of all the scientists in this world and their "evidence". I trust God as being the creator of all things and I trust His Son as being the only path to salvation

Well at least you gave it some serious thought and took plenty of time to go over the research.

 

[Papias]

W wrote:

What about sites like creation.com or icr.org?

They are highly profitable businesses that make money by selling creationist materials. They are successful in doing so by creating a scary image of science, and hence scaring Christians to buy their products.

In doing so, they cause immense damage to Christianity by convincing Christians that they have to reject evolution to be Christian. When some of these Christians look at the evidence, they often feel they have to leave Christianity to be remain honest, and they do so. This was cited by Barna research as one of the main reasons for so many people leaving Christianity today. But hey, those sites don't care how many people they drive from Christianity as long as the checks keep coming in.

Since the data is so completely in favor of evolution, those sites (like creation.com and icr - aig is another) have to rely on a range of deceptive tactics to fool people. Here is a list of some of the most common tactics used.


• Stacking the Evidence - only show some of the evidence.
• Inconsistent terminology - use a word to mean something different.
• Bare assertions – one of the most common - simply state a falsehood, and leave it there to be believed, with no supporting evidence.
• Quotemining - (misrepresenting a quote to sound like it says the opposite of its original meaning).
• Misrepresentation & “Weasel Words”- use vague terms to imply things without saying them outright (because if you do, you'll be shown wrong).
• Appealing to Ignorance - say things like "nobody knows how....", when in fact they do.
• Moving the Goalposts – if one claim looks like it is being disproven, pretend the original claim was different.
• Ducking questions by changing the topic (red herrings or the “Gish Gallop&#8221-
• Use of outdated sources - no one checks dates anyway.
• Continuing to use exposed falsehoods – Like the paluxy river fraud, etc.

If we are to present a good witness to the world, this kind of lying has no place in Christianity.

In Jesus' name-

Papias

P. S.
W arote:

I will listen to God's word which is the Bible

No one is suggesting you do anything else. Using only a literal interpretation allthe time is terrible hermeneutics, and so often just plain wrong. Genesis is not in conflict with evolution unless one interprets it literally.

 

[Papias]

W-

Also, welcome to the forums! In your walk with Christ, when it comes to evolution, it helps to know some basic facts of the situation.

I know there are a lot of creationists out there, with websites and preachers decrying evolution as the spawn of the pit of hell.

However, there are also millions of Christians who see evolution as perfectly compatible with Christianity. Indeed, the majority of Evolution supporters in the united states are Christians. Similarly, the work of discovering evolution has mostly been done by scientists (of many fields) who are Christian.

I know what it is like to be convinced of something, and I'm sure you've heard many other Christians say that evolution is evil for a long time. However, please take the time to look into both sides with an open mind.

One place to start with examining the evidence for evolution is at TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy. There are plenty of others - including any high-school or college level biology class.

Important things to realize (and check these out, don't just take my word for it) are:

• Practically all scientists support evolution, and have for decades. It's simply not a controversy. While there is disagreement about minor points (such as whether ambulocetus was 70% vs. 80% aquatic), the basics are agreed upon. Compare any creationist "list" with Project Steve, times 100.
• The evidence for evolution includes all kinds of stuff, not just fossils. DNA tests alone would be enough to prove evolution beyond a shadow of a doubt, even if there were no fossils. Others are phylogeny, biogeography, ontogeny, pathology, agriculture, and many others.
• There are tons of excellent series of clearly transitional fossils. The horse, whale, mammal, fish to amphibian, amphibian to reptile and many others series are so clear that creationists generally just avoid them, and don't deny that they are clear.
• Creationists don't agree on their basics. You can see this from OEC websites. Those creationists say the earth is billions (>2,000,000,000) of years old, while most creationists say it is about 6,000 years old.
• Geologists (including thousands of Christians) worldwide overwhelmingly reject the idea of a young earth and a global flood, based on evidence. They have agreed on this for over 150 years, deciding this long before Darwin published his book.
• Creationists rely almost solely on a handful of deceptive tactics. These include moving the goalposts, being evasive/misleading (AiG does that alot), quote mining (which you’ve no doubt seen – google it), ignoring/hiding evidence (very common), and less often, outright fraud.
• The majority of Christians worldwide are in churches that accept evolution. Evolution is as firmly proven as the existence of the Civil War, and the harder fundamentalists fight against it, the more damage they will do to Christianity, by making people think the Christianity is deception.
Take your time. There is no time limit to decide on evolution, and it will take time to test all of the statements above.

In Christ-

Papias

 

[Wryetui]

W wrote:



They are highly profitable businesses that make money by selling creationist materials. They are successful in doing so by creating a scary image of science, and hence scaring Christians to buy their products.

In doing so, they cause immense damage to Christianity by convincing Christians that they have to reject evolution to be Christian. When some of these Christians look at the evidence, they often feel they have to leave Christianity to be remain honest, and they do so. This was cited by Barna research as one of the main reasons for so many people leaving Christianity today. But hey, those sites don't care how many people they drive from Christianity as long as the checks keep coming in.

Since the data is so completely in favor of evolution, those sites (like creation.com and icr - aig is another) have to rely on a range of deceptive tactics to fool people. Here is a list of some of the most common tactics used.


• Stacking the Evidence - only show some of the evidence.
• Inconsistent terminology - use a word to mean something different.
• Bare assertions – one of the most common - simply state a falsehood, and leave it there to be believed, with no supporting evidence.
• Quotemining - (misrepresenting a quote to sound like it says the opposite of its original meaning).
• Misrepresentation & “Weasel Words”- use vague terms to imply things without saying them outright (because if you do, you'll be shown wrong).
• Appealing to Ignorance - say things like "nobody knows how....", when in fact they do.
• Moving the Goalposts – if one claim looks like it is being disproven, pretend the original claim was different.
• Ducking questions by changing the topic (red herrings or the “Gish Gallop”)-
• Use of outdated sources - no one checks dates anyway.
• Continuing to use exposed falsehoods – Like the paluxy river fraud, etc.

If we are to present a good witness to the world, this kind of lying has no place in Christianity.

In Jesus' name-

Papias

P. S.
W arote:


No one is suggesting you do anything else. Using only a literal interpretation allthe time is terrible hermeneutics, and so often just plain wrong. Genesis is not in conflict with evolution unless one interprets it literally.

Well I was thinking a little bit about it because the amount of magazines and books they sell on those sites made me a little bit of suspicious anyway. So are you saying that evolution doesn't affect Christianity and you can be an evolutionist christian?

After all, Christ didn't come here to explain how the things were made and didn't say that it was an important matter on salvation. What it really matters is faith in Him and other important teachings.

 

[bhsmte]

I have read almost everything on the internet about this since I came to the conclusion that there are better things to focus on , and that God doesn't rely on this subject at all. But still I want to ask, for you guys, without any complicated answers, do you think evolution is the overall truth and that explains everything without any kind of doubt?

In my short life I have seen great engineers, doctors or scientists that were creationists, and I have seen great engineers, doctors and scientists that were evolutionists, so as far as I can see, evidence can be interpreted in many ways.

Why would the theory of evolution, need to explain everything?

Does the theory of gravity explain everything?

Does germ theory explain everything?

And in regards to who believes what, it is important to rely on the folks, who know more about this topic, than anyone else; Phd biologists. In this group, well over 90%, agree with and support evolution quite strongly.

If you had a heart condition, you would seek the advice of cardiologists for treatment, you would not seek out an orthopedist, or dermatologist.

 

[bhsmte]

I will take none of the options you gave to me, and I will trust God So my answer would be: I will listen to God's word which is the Bible, because the very God that inspired Moses to write the Genesis was the very God that died for my sins, and I prefer to believe Him instead of all the scientists in this world and their "evidence". I trust God as being the creator of all things and I trust His Son as being the only path to salvation

This would be your choice.

But I must ask, why then bothering opening this thread?

 

[Wryetui]

To know your opinion about it.