So confused on the Sabbath...

[Bernergirl]

I think at some point this weekend I am going to pull out my topical and do a thorough study on the Sabbath and legalism in Scripture.

I mean, is trying to keep the commandments/Law bad? That seems to be the answer I'm getting when I ask about such things... I know the Law is not my judge and I am saved by grace and not by works, but from faith comes works (like keeping the law) and it seems to me that preventing faith from bringing about works (not trying to keep the Law) is pretty... what's the word I'm looking for... counterintuitive?

So, my Sabbath question. Do we keep the Sabbath, do we not keep the Sabbath? Saturday is the Sabbath. The Lord's Day/Resurrection Day/Sunday/whatever-you-deem-it is when services are held at most churches around here. Thus, because of the nature of taking time to go to church as well as observing the Sabbath, that would leave Sunday afternoon and evening for work to be done.

My question may seem petty because of the root matter: I am in high school and I have a lot of homework most of the time. If I get a huge load of homework on a weekend and I observe the Sabbath and go to church on Sunday morning, that only leaves Sunday afternoon and evening for my homework to be done. I mean, I'm willing to make the sacrifice if that's how it is; I suppose I can just try to get more done during the week. But is that how it is? Seems to be the question of the age.

I'm so confused...

God bless you,

Lissa

 

[icxn]

The Sabbath is not kept by going to Church on Saturday (which is not a bad thing in itself - Orthodox have services every day so this is not an issue) or not doing any work. neither circumcision by cutting your skin.

 

[Sephania]

I think at some point this weekend I am going to pull out my topical and do a thorough study on the Sabbath and legalism in Scripture.

I mean, is trying to keep the commandments/Law bad? That seems to be the answer I'm getting when I ask about such things... I know the Law is not my judge and I am saved by grace and not by works, but from faith comes works (like keeping the law) and it seems to me that preventing faith from bringing about works (not trying to keep the Law) is pretty... what's the word I'm looking for... counterintuitive?

So, my Sabbath question. Do we keep the Sabbath, do we not keep the Sabbath? Saturday is the Sabbath. The Lord's Day/Resurrection Day/Sunday/whatever-you-deem-it is when services are held at most churches around here. Thus, because of the nature of taking time to go to church as well as observing the Sabbath, that would leave Sunday afternoon and evening for work to be done.

My question may seem petty because of the root matter: I am in high school and I have a lot of homework most of the time. If I get a huge load of homework on a weekend and I observe the Sabbath and go to church on Sunday morning, that only leaves Sunday afternoon and evening for my homework to be done. I mean, I'm willing to make the sacrifice if that's how it is; I suppose I can just try to get more done during the week. But is that how it is? Seems to be the question of the age.

I'm so confused...

God bless you,

Lissa

Hi Berner girl!
Actually the Biblical sabbath is from Friday sundown to Sat sundown, so you would have sat night to work on your home work as well as Sunday afternoon and night. I hope you don't get more work to do than that!

 

[Caissie]

I think at some point this weekend I am going to pull out my topical and do a thorough study on the Sabbath and legalism in Scripture.

I mean, is trying to keep the commandments/Law bad? That seems to be the answer I'm getting when I ask about such things... I know the Law is not my judge and I am saved by grace and not by works, but from faith comes works (like keeping the law) and it seems to me that preventing faith from bringing about works (not trying to keep the Law) is pretty... what's the word I'm looking for... counterintuitive?

So, my Sabbath question. Do we keep the Sabbath, do we not keep the Sabbath? Saturday is the Sabbath. The Lord's Day/Resurrection Day/Sunday/whatever-you-deem-it is when services are held at most churches around here. Thus, because of the nature of taking time to go to church as well as observing the Sabbath, that would leave Sunday afternoon and evening for work to be done.

My question may seem petty because of the root matter: I am in high school and I have a lot of homework most of the time. If I get a huge load of homework on a weekend and I observe the Sabbath and go to church on Sunday morning, that only leaves Sunday afternoon and evening for my homework to be done. I mean, I'm willing to make the sacrifice if that's how it is; I suppose I can just try to get more done during the week. But is that how it is? Seems to be the question of the age.

I'm so confused...

God bless you,

Lissa

To figure out if God wants us to keep the Sabbath today, we will answer these five questions:


1. How long did God say we should observe this commandment?

2. Does the New Testament support us keeping this commandment?

3. Why did God want us to keep them in the past?

4. Does the reason of why God wanted us to keep them in the past still apply?

5. Is there any evidence that we will be keeping the Sabbath when Christ returns?


1. How long did God say we should observe this commandment?

Exodus 31:13-17
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you…Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.


2. Does the New Testament support us keeping this commandment?

Matthew 24:15-22
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

There are many places in the scripture where the disciples went into the synagogue on the Sabbath to preach. Most people will say, they were only doing this only to witness to the Jews but they were still meeting on Sundays to have church. Here is a verse to think about…

Acts 13:42-44
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God
If the Gentile church was meeting on Sunday, then why would the Gentiles be meeting to hear the preaching on the Sabbath and why did the Gentiles ask “that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath”? Why didn’t they just ask them to preach it tomorrow at church?

Acts 1:12
Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

If the Sabbath was abolished, then there would be no such thing at this time of a “Sabbath day’s journey”.

Also, after Jesus rose from the grave he spent forty days on earth with his disciples and others [Acts 1:3]. In forty days he would have spent at least five end of the week Sabbaths plus the High Sabbath at the end of the days of unleavened bread. During one of these, Jesus could have mentioned to his disciples that this law no longer applies. How do I know he didn’t? Because if they knew that the Sabbath was already abolished, there would have been no debate about the Gentiles and circumcision later in Acts 15.

Acts 20:6-7
And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days. And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow, and continued his speech until midnight.

In the above verses, the disciples were not keeping Sunday. They were actually keeping the Sabbath. If you have a KJV (with added words in italics) you would notice that the word “day” is in italics. Now, get your Strong’s Concordance, and look up the word that was translated as “week” in the above verse. You will notice that the word translated as “week” in the above verse is actually “sabbaton” meaning “Sabbath”. So it should read, “upon the first Sabbath, when the disciples came together”. What is this “first Sabbath”? Well, if you look at verse 6, you will notice that is taking place right after the days of unleavened bread. This is the time where the people would count seven Sabbaths to Pentecost. This was the “first Sabbath”. Many Sunday keepers present the above verses as their absolute proof that we should keep Sunday. I wonder, if they analyzed these verses, if they would start using these verses as “absolute proof” for keeping the Sabbath, or will they hold their tradition over the Bible?


3. Why did God want us to keep the Sabbath in the past?

It was a sign between God and Israel “that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you [Exodus 31:13]

It is “a shadow of things to come” [Colossians 2:16-17]


4. Does the reason of why God wanted us to keep the Sabbath in the past still apply?

As mentioned earlier, one of the reasons that God set up the Seventh day Sabbath was to foreshadow the Millennium reign with Christ. It foreshadowed it when it was created, and since Christ has not returned yet, it still foreshadows it today. So, does it make since that God will abolish the Sabbath if it still points to the return of Christ? If not, then that means the reason of why God wanted us to keep the Sabbath still applies.


5. Is there any evidence that we will be keeping the Sabbath after Christ returns?

Isaiah 66:22-23
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

 

[Steve Petersen]

What did Jesus do? You are his disciple; imitate him.

 

[OntheDL]

I think at some point this weekend I am going to pull out my topical and do a thorough study on the Sabbath and legalism in Scripture.

I mean, is trying to keep the commandments/Law bad? That seems to be the answer I'm getting when I ask about such things... I know the Law is not my judge and I am saved by grace and not by works, but from faith comes works (like keeping the law) and it seems to me that preventing faith from bringing about works (not trying to keep the Law) is pretty... what's the word I'm looking for... counterintuitive?

So, my Sabbath question. Do we keep the Sabbath, do we not keep the Sabbath? Saturday is the Sabbath. The Lord's Day/Resurrection Day/Sunday/whatever-you-deem-it is when services are held at most churches around here. Thus, because of the nature of taking time to go to church as well as observing the Sabbath, that would leave Sunday afternoon and evening for work to be done.

My question may seem petty because of the root matter: I am in high school and I have a lot of homework most of the time. If I get a huge load of homework on a weekend and I observe the Sabbath and go to church on Sunday morning, that only leaves Sunday afternoon and evening for my homework to be done. I mean, I'm willing to make the sacrifice if that's how it is; I suppose I can just try to get more done during the week. But is that how it is? Seems to be the question of the age.

I'm so confused...

God bless you,

Lissa

"The Sabbath is part of the Decalogue - The Ten commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution...Until therefore it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand... The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath." T.C. Blake, D. D., Theology Condensed, Pages 474, 475.

"We must not imagine that the coming of Christ has freed us from the authority of the law; for it is the eternal rule of a devout and holy life, and must therefore be as unchangeable as the justice of God, which it embraced, is constant and uniform." John Calvin, Commentary on a Harmony of the Gospels, Volume 1, Page 277.

"For the permanency of the Sabbath, we might argue for its place in the Decalogue, where it stands enshrined among the moralities of a rectitude that is immutable and everlasting." Thomas Chalmers, D. D., Sermons, Volume 1, page 51

"The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath." Dwight's Theology, Vol. 14, p. 401.

"A further argument for the perpetuity of the Sabbath we have in Matthew 24:20, Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter neither on the Sabbath day. But the final destruction of Jerusalem was after the Christian dispensation was fully set up (AD 70). Yet it is plainly implied in these words of the Lord that even then Christians were bound to strict observation of the Sabbath." Works of Jonathon Edwards, (Presby.) Vol. 4, p. 621.

The real question is who has authority in your life? It's not about the day of worship. It's about who do you obey? Is it God who instituted Sabbath or the church who by tradition instituted Sunday worship?

If your church does not follow the explicit commandment of God, maybe you should find one that does. This way you will also have whole sunday to do your own business.

Hope this helps, God Bless!

 

[Sephania]

What did Jesus do? You are his disciple; imitate him.

1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

 

[lilymarie]

Read Matthew 12:1-30Bernie Girl.... Jesus was "working" on the Sabbath doing good. As you see in Matthew 12, the Pharisees were more proud of their observance of tradition of the Sabbath that they blasphemed The Holy Spirit because of it and lost their salvation.

Lord of the Sabbath

1At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath."
3He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
9Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"
11He said to them, "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."
13Then he said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. 14But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.


God's Chosen Servant

15Aware of this, Jesus withdrew from that place. Many followed him, and he healed all their sick, 16warning them not to tell who he was. 17This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
18"Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
19He will not quarrel or cry out;
no one will hear his voice in the streets.
20A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out,
till he leads justice to victory.
21In his name the nations will put their hope."

Jesus and Beelzebub

22Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
30"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.


_____________


Also Romans 14:5 is addressing the fact that the Hebrew calendar was a lunar calendar and revolved around the cycles of the moon -- from first moon to full moon, and the Roman calendar was a solar calendar and revolved around the cycles of the sun; so, therefore, the Sabbath day or Seventh Day would fall on different days due to two different calendars, as a lunar calendar has more days than a solar calendar.


Also, Romans 14:5 addresses that any day is worthy of worship and rest in The Lord, including all days. As it says "one man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike.


So, all days of worship and/or rest are welcomed by The Lord. In my mind, every day belongs to The Lord.


We do, however, need rest. Rest in him.


However, if you feel you are doing good on The Sabbath... you shouldn't condeem yourself. The scriptures don't.

 

[tall73]

Sabbath observance is not simply attending church as was mentioned It is primarily a rest to have more time with God. We are to find our joy in the Lord according to Isaiah 58 on the Sabbath, not going our own way. However records of synagogue attendance etc. are a clue of Sabbath observance that are recorded.

Here are some texts that indicate that the believers did continue to meet in the synagogue on the Sabbath.

Act 9:1 But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest
Act 9:2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

Act 22:19 And I said, 'Lord, they themselves know that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and beat those who believed in you.

When Saul (Paul) went to find Christians he went to the synagogue as they were still meeting there.

Act 13:14 but they went on from Perga and came to Antioch in Pisidia. And on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down.
Act 13:15 After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent a message to them, saying, "Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it."
Act 13:16 So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said: "Men of Israel and you who fear God, listen.

This is the first of a number of passages in which Paul attended the synagogue. While he did go at times to preach it is not clear from this passage that this was his intent. He was sitting there and was asked to speak, as happened in synagogues, especially with guests. Whether this was by pre-arrangement we are not told, though later it clearly was.

Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

It was Paul's costom to attend synagogue and to reason with the Jews. This was for evangelistic purposes, but also fits with Paul's identification of himself as a Jew, who holds to the traditions of the fathers, and part of the sect of Judaism called the Nazarenes:

Act 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets.

Even when there was no synagogue Paul observed the Sabbath by finding a place of prayer.

Act 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together.

Over long spans of time Paul continued to meet with both Jews and Gentiles on the Sabbath of each week, never telling them to meet on Sunday, or suggesting a cessation of Sabbath observance.

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.

James, during the discussion of Acts 15 regardin salvation by faith and circumcision, the law of Moses etc. makes reference to the continuing preaching of Moses in the synagogue and assumes familiarity with the practice on the part of all present, from the various churches throughout the world:

Act 15:21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues."

James references the synagogue when speaking to Jewish Christians:

Jam 2:2 For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in,
Jam 2:3 and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, "You sit here in a good place," while you say to the poor man, "You stand over there," or, "Sit down at my feet,"
Jam 2:4 have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

The word translated "assembly" here is the term for the synagogue, συναγωγή.

In these texts the Sabbath day is continually called just that. No change was made to the name, and they appeared to still meet on the Sabbath for worship.


Here are some texts that indicate that assembly for worship was likely a part of Sabbath even in early times:

The evidence in the Old Testament mainly points to a day of rest, at first in their homes in the wilderness. There are hints though of assembly on the Sabbath, and by New Testament times it is quite clear that weekly worship and assebly were being practiced, which Jesus also joined in on.


1. Leviticus suggests that there was some element of assembly on the Sabbath. The context makes it unclear whether it was just in their homes as families, or some more corporate form.

Lev 23:3 "Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the LORD in all your dwelling places.


2. An indication of assembling on the Sabbath and new moon:


2Ki 4:22 Then she called to her husband and said, "Send me one of the servants and one of the donkeys, that I may quickly go to the man of God and come back again."
2Ki 4:23 And he said, "Why will you go to him today? It is neither new moon nor Sabbath." She said, "All is well."

3. The term convocation is again used of the new moon and Sabbath, though they were in vain because the people were turning away from God in their sin, but still coming to worship as ones who sought Him:

Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations-- I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.

4. Depending on your view of who wrote Isaiah this would qualify, though it is describing a later period prophetically. In any case it is referencing the Sabbath and new moon assemblies.


Isa 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.



E. There was increased activity among the priests on the Sabbath, which shows that rest was not the only priority.

The day is for turning from our usual activities, and our usual conversation, to take our joy in the Lord. It is a day to spend with the Lord.


Isa 58:13 "If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly;
Isa 58:14 then you shall take delight in the LORD, and I will make you ride on

 

[winslow]

Also, Romans 14:5 addresses that any day is worthy of worship and rest in The Lord, including all days. As it says "one man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike.


So, all days of worship and/or rest are welcomed by The Lord. In my mind, every day belongs to The Lord.


We do, however, need rest. Rest in him.


However, if you feel you are doing good on The Sabbath... you shouldn't condeem yourself. The scriptures don't.

Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith, but not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:2 For indeed one believes to eat all things; but being weak, another eats vegetables.
Rom 14:3 Do not let him who eats despise him who does not eat; and do not let him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has received him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you that judges another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. But he will stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks.

Romans 14 has nothing to do with days of worship. The context of the verse you quoted is talking about fast days and how those observing them regarded those that didn't.

 

[MEH07]

Hi Steve Petersen,

What did Jesus do? You are his disciple; imitate him.

Although that works in principle for most things, this issue is not one of them. Jesus had to keep the Sabbath along with the Old Testament Law so that He could live a perfect and sinless life and so that by His sacrificial death to pay the punishment of sin He could bring about the Law's completion and the dispensation of grace.

This dispensation of grace, which we are now living in, is grounded upon the finished work of Jesus Christ. It tells men that thy no longer are required to live in obedience to the Law of Moses, and that no ritual or ceremonial system can help secure their salvation. True, the unchanging moral law of God is still in effect; the believer in Christ does not live in lawlessness and sin, but, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, his or her life is characterized by righteousness.

Anyway, the following answer relates to the original post:

Paul in his letter to the Colossians says firmly For [the Old Testament Law, rules, and requirements] were only shadows of the real thing, Christ Himself (Colossians 2:17). In the verse prior to this one, that is Colossians 2:16, Paul tells Christians not to let anyone condemn them for not observing Sabbath. This is a very strange statement to make if observing the Sabbath were an important command to keep for Christians.

In fact, when you understand about Christ fulfilling the Law, you'd understand that the Sabbath was a foreshadow which looked forward to a time wherein we cease from our own works and cease from the requirements of the Law, but rest in the works of Christ Jesus who completed the Law.

You see, without the good works, we would have been condemned by the law, but because of Christ Jesus and His good works, we rest from our works in Him. The Old Testament rest of the Sabbath looked forward to this Grace, wherein we cease from works.

Tony Warren in his article [1] points that since the Law is fulfilled in Christ, we would no more rest on the seventh day Sabbath as we would sacrifice a lamb on an altar, or put the blood on the door posts. And for the exact same reasons. That everlasting law has not be abrogated, it is fulfilled in the blood of Christ whom it was the shadow of. We can't arbitrarily take one law of sacrificing a Lamb and say we must keep this one, while discarding all the other Old Testament laws which God clearly said were also everlasting laws. We have to keep all the laws or keep none. With men this is impossible, but with God it is.

Those who keep the Sabbath do so unnecessarily, but either way, it doesn't worry me. I think that the idea of having a period of time away from everything just to focus on God is a good idea, I just don't believe that it should be legalistically followed.

If you have a lot of homework and study to do, then may I suggest that you do it? You can start living in the dispensation of grace and exercise what Jesus gave you (i.e. freedom from the Law) at a great price.

Footnotes:
1. Warren, T. The Law And How It Is Fulfilled In Christ.

 

[MEH07]

To Bernergirl,

I realised that I didn't address a few things in my previous post:

I mean, is trying to keep the commandments/Law bad?

No, keeping the Law is not bad, it's just unnecessary.

That seems to be the answer I'm getting when I ask about such things... I know the Law is not my judge and I am saved by grace and not by works, but from faith comes works (like keeping the law) and it seems to me that preventing faith from bringing about works (not trying to keep the Law) is pretty... what's the word I'm looking for... counterintuitive?

When Jesus and James speaks about works coming from faith, I believe that he is more referring to becoming more like Jesus in character and nature rather than legalistically following the Law; for example I believe that James and Jesus are more talking about things like developing patience, mercy, forgiveness, absolute love, etc. Holding the door open for someone or helping people do things are two practical examples of this in action. They should come naturally.

As you mature in the faith and continue to walk with Jesus everyday, you'll naturally want to spend time with Him and reflect on Him and you are now free to choose when or where you want wish to because of grace. For example, I often withdraw from the world to a local mountain and spend time in solitude there with God and focus on Him. I don't spend a long time, only half an hour to an hour, but it gives me a chance to renew my mind from being "me-focused" to God-focused.

 

[lilymarie]

Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith, but not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:2 For indeed one believes to eat all things; but being weak, another eats vegetables.
Rom 14:3 Do not let him who eats despise him who does not eat; and do not let him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has received him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you that judges another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. But he will stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks.

Romans 14 has nothing to do with days of worship. The context of the verse you quoted is talking about fast days and how those observing them regarded those that didn't.

How is that passage in Romans 14 talking about fasting? There are plenty of scriptures on fasting.

Romans 14:5 is addressing that one man considers ONE day MORE sacred than another; another man considers every day alike.

What does it go on to say -- each should be fully convinced in their own mind (meaning what the sacred day is).

The Sabbath due to the lunar calendar as opposed to the solar calendar created the Sabbath to fall on different days.

Thus, Romans 14 is saying who are you to judge what The Lord's servant considers their sacred day, or if another of The Lord's servants considers every day as holy (alike).

5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Which correlates with Matthew 12 The Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus, desires mercy not sacrifice. Which correlates with the scripture "mercy triumphs over judgment".

Which correlates with Col 2

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. 20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.


Since with differing calendars, the Sabbath day would differ.


Why do you think the Passover celebration and Easter change every year?


It's because of the differences in the calendars. The Passover is different every year, and our westernized solar calendar has to correlate with the Hebrew Passover, as this is when Jesus was crucified. So, therefore, this is why Easter changes every year because a lunar calendar can add up to something like 19 added days a year.


All these scriptures can than relate to "there is now NO condemnation in Christ Jesus".


If one wants to celebrate every day as a holy day, or another wants a traditional Sabbath, and another considers a different day more holy, each are doing so unto The Lord.


So, who are we to pass judgment on Christ's servant?


That's the point -- mercy triumphs over judgment.


It seems to me The Sabbath Day was a day of rest in The Lord but also a day to spend with one's family and/or invited guests for a meal and conversation.


We all need time to be with our loved ones.


I'd say as long as you are spending time with your loved ones and not forgetting mercy, you're fine Bernie Girl.


However, if one day you want to hold a traditional Sabbath, there is freedom in Christ to do that, too.


It's the being fulling convinced in your own mind that counts and that what we do is done "unto The Lord".


So, if someone is doing something unto The Lord, who are you/we/me to judge The Lord's servant?

p.s. In Romans 14 it's talking about foods... how can that be fasting? It's talking about when we join together to break bread whether traditional Sabbath or not, if one eats only vegetables, don't force him/her to eat meat. Nor judge what your brother/sister considers their holy days -- Col 2.

 

[OntheDL]

Hi Steve Petersen,

Although that works in principle for most things, this issue is not one of them. Jesus had to keep the Sabbath along with the Old Testament Law so that He could live a perfect and sinless life and so that by His sacrificial death to pay the punishment of sin He could bring about the Law's completion and the dispensation of grace.

The sabbath comandment is not part of the OT law of Moses. It's a part of the 10 commandment. They are eternal. The 7th day sabbath was instituted after creation not for the jews only, but for all mankind. Read Isaiah 66, sabbath will still be observed in the new heaven.

Isaiah 66
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

This dispensation of grace, which we are now living in, is grounded upon the finished work of Jesus Christ. It tells men that thy no longer are required to live in obedience to the Law of Moses, and that no ritual or ceremonial system can help secure their salvation. True, the unchanging moral law of God is still in effect; the believer in Christ does not live in lawlessness and sin, but, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, his or her life is characterized by righteousness.

Anyway, the following answer relates to the original post:

Paul in his letter to the Colossians says firmly For [the Old Testament Law, rules, and requirements] were only shadows of the real thing, Christ Himself (Colossians 2:17). In the verse prior to this one, that is Colossians 2:16, Paul tells Christians not to let anyone condemn them for not observing Sabbath. This is a very strange statement to make if observing the Sabbath were an important command to keep for Christians.

In fact, when you understand about Christ fulfilling the Law, you'd understand that the Sabbath was a foreshadow which looked forward to a time wherein we cease from our own works and cease from the requirements of the Law, but rest in the works of Christ Jesus who completed the Law.

The bible does not talk about the sabbath being a shadow pointing to Christ. The animal sacrifices were. In fact the commandment itself in Exodus 20 strictly commemorates God's creation.

Paul was never talking the sabbath itself being a shadow of Christ in Colossians 2:16 & 17.

Look up the phrase 'new moon, feast days and sabbath'.
It appeared 8 times in the Bible. 7 times in the OT, everytime it was mentioned, it was talking about the sin offering: animal sacrifices. Those were performed on those days, new moon, feast days and sabbaths. So Paul was talking about the animal sacrifices that were shadows of the Lamb of God.

You see, without the good works, we would have been condemned by the law, but because of Christ Jesus and His good works, we rest from our works in Him. The Old Testament rest of the Sabbath looked forward to this Grace, wherein we cease from works.

Tony Warren in his article [1] points that since the Law is fulfilled in Christ, we would no more rest on the seventh day Sabbath as we would sacrifice a lamb on an altar, or put the blood on the door posts. And for the exact same reasons. That everlasting law has not be abrogated, it is fulfilled in the blood of Christ whom it was the shadow of. We can't arbitrarily take one law of sacrificing a Lamb and say we must keep this one, while discarding all the other Old Testament laws which God clearly said were also everlasting laws. We have to keep all the laws or keep none. With men this is impossible, but with God it is.

Those who keep the Sabbath do so unnecessarily, but either way, it doesn't worry me. I think that the idea of having a period of time away from everything just to focus on God is a good idea, I just don't believe that it should be legalistically followed.

If you have a lot of homework and study to do, then may I suggest that you do it? You can start living in the dispensation of grace and exercise what Jesus gave you (i.e. freedom from the Law) at a great price.

Footnotes:
1. Warren, T. The Law And How It Is Fulfilled In Christ.

Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments, John 14:15.

And Revelation says:
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

True that keeping the law can not save us. However, if you are truly born again, you keep all the laws. The bible says Jesus suffered all our infirmities, yet committed no sin, leaving us an example. Example of what? To have victory over sin. And it's by His power, we are able to overcome. That's the true and whole gospel. Jesus came to save us from our sins, not in our sins.

 

[OntheDL]

How is that passage in Romans 14 talking about fasting? There are plenty of scriptures on fasting.

Romans 14:5 is addressing that one man considers ONE day MORE sacred than another; another man considers every day alike.

What does it go on to say -- each should be fully convinced in their own mind (meaning what the sacred day is).

The Sabbath due to the lunar calendar as opposed to the solar calendar created the Sabbath to fall on different days.

Thus, Romans 14 is saying who are you to judge what The Lord's servant considers their sacred day, or if another of The Lord's servants considers every day as holy (alike).

5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Where does it say we can arbitrarily chose a to keep holy? Can man make holy anything?

The bible says the 'sabbath is a sign between the Lord and His people forever.' 'It's a perpetual covenant.'

Which correlates with Matthew 12 The Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus, desires mercy not sacrifice. Which correlates with the scripture "mercy triumphs over judgment".

Jesus was the creator. Thus He's the Lord of sabbath. To keep sabbath holy was to recognize Him as our creator. Where it says we don't need to keep it.

Which correlates with Col 2

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. 20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

Paul was talking the animal sacrifice, not the sabbath. Please see my previous post above.

Since with differing calendars, the Sabbath day would differ.


Why do you think the Passover celebration and Easter change every year?


It's because of the differences in the calendars. The Passover is different every year, and our westernized solar calendar has to correlate with the Hebrew Passover, as this is when Jesus was crucified. So, therefore, this is why Easter changes every year because a lunar calendar can add up to something like 19 added days a year.

The 7th day sabbath depends on the 7 day weekly cycle, not the cycle of the moon. Just ask the jews, they have been keeping sabbath for all these years. The weekly system has never been changed.

All these scriptures can than relate to "there is now NO condemnation in Christ Jesus".


If one wants to celebrate every day as a holy day, or another wants a traditional Sabbath, and another considers a different day more holy, each are doing so unto The Lord.


So, who are we to pass judgment on Christ's servant?


That's the point -- mercy triumphs over judgment.


It seems to me The Sabbath Day was a day of rest in The Lord but also a day to spend with one's family and/or invited guests for a meal and conversation.


We all need time to be with our loved ones.


I'd say as long as you are spending time with your loved ones and not forgetting mercy, you're fine Bernie Girl.


However, if one day you want to hold a traditional Sabbath, there is freedom in Christ to do that, too.


It's the being fulling convinced in your own mind that counts and that what we do is done "unto The Lord".


So, if someone is doing something unto The Lord, who are you/we/me to judge The Lord's servant?

Please allow the Lord to chose the day. You and I can only follow. We are not in the position to alter what God has written in stones.

 

[winslow]

How is that passage in Romans 14 talking about fasting? There are plenty of scriptures on fasting.

Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith, but not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:2 For indeed one believes to eat all things; but being weak, another eats vegetables.
Rom 14:3 Do not let him who eats despise him who does not eat; and do not let him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has received him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you that judges another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. But he will stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks.

The context of the verse tells you that it is reffering to food and not days of worship. To apply it to days of worship is taking it out of context and interpreting it to say something the author never intended.

The sabbath of OT times had both a weekly and a ceremonial application. The seventh day was hallowed at the creation week. The ceremonial sabbath days were instituted at Sinai. When the ceremonial sabbath fell on the weekly sabbath it was regarded as a high sabbath daY.

The sabbath day is/was a feast day not a fast day.


16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival,
a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality,
however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels
disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual
mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported
and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. 20Since you died with Christ to the
basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle!
Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and
teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship,
their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

Another verse lifted out of it's context to interpret it to say something the author never intended. Paul here is dealing with a sect that was imposing unchristian requirements onto believers by telling them they had to approach God in a particular manner. The worship of angels (they needed to approach God through an angelic mediator), abstaining from foods never restricted by God's word, self imposed worship.

Paul is telling believers not to be judged in the manner of their sabbath observance. It has nothing to do with the abrogation of the sabbath.

 

[tall73]

Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith, but not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:2 For indeed one believes to eat all things; but being weak, another eats vegetables.
Rom 14:3 Do not let him who eats despise him who does not eat; and do not let him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has received him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you that judges another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. But he will stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks.

The context of the verse tells you that it is reffering to food and not days of worship. To apply it to days of worship is taking it out of context and interpreting it to say something the author never intended.

The sabbath of OT times had both a weekly and a ceremonial application. The seventh day was hallowed at the creation week. The ceremonial sabbath days were instituted at Sinai. When the ceremonial sabbath fell on the weekly sabbath it was regarded as a high sabbath daY.

The sabbath day is/was a feast day not a fast day.

It depends on if you see them as two separate issues raised as examples of the larger principle.

There is evidence in the Didache of the Jews and Christians having different fast days during the week. We also know that some of the Jewish Christians remained zealous for the law and the traditions of the fathers. Their may have been some keeping the Jewish days and some the new Christian days.

As for eating or not eating, I think the reference is to the earlier statement about some eating meat and some eating vegetables, not to not eating at all. But folks will have to decide on that one.

Some say that the Sabbath is indicated because it also mentions food laws. However, the food laws mentioned are not those of the Mosaic law, as it did not say to eat only vegetables. The issue may have been either with meat sacrificed to idols, as Paul addresses elsewhere, or perhaps even to some other imposed legalistic system of unknown origin. So there is another reason to think that these requirements they were imposing were likely not mosaic, but some other system of worship.

Therefore Pual simply says to leave it up to conscience, while being sensitive to the weaker brother.

If Paul had here been eliminating the Sabbath we could expect him to give a much more detailed refutation, as he did with circumcision. Certainly he would be accussed at every turn of eliminating Sabbath keeping if he was doing so, but we do not see this same controversy that is associated with circumcision.

 

[lilymarie]

Where does it say we can arbitrarily chose a to keep holy? Can man make holy anything?

The bible says the 'sabbath is a sign between the Lord and His people forever.' 'It's a perpetual covenant.'




Jesus was the creator. Thus He's the Lord of sabbath. To keep sabbath holy was to recognize Him as our creator. Where it says we don't need to keep it.



Paul was talking the animal sacrifice, not the sabbath. Please see my previous post above.

The 7th day sabbath depends on the 7 day weekly cycle, not the cycle of the moon. Just ask the jews, they have been keeping sabbath for all these years. The weekly system has never been changed.


Please allow the Lord to chose the day. You and I can only follow. We are not in the position to alter what God has written in stones.

It's in Romans 14:5. One considers one day MORE SACRED than another...

What does one person considers one day more sacred than another mean?

p.s. Maybe you could study ancient calendars. Why does Passover change every year? Because a lunar calendar can add up to 19-23 days a year compared to a solar calendar. This is also why those who go by a solar calendar have a leap year to compensate.

But again, who are you to judge God's servant who regards one day more sacred than another?

 

[BrotherDave]

I believe we learn from God's examples in creation and redemption that Sunday is the Sabbath, when we are to make sure of our own salvation and to go into all the world with the Gospel. God has given us 6 days to do the things we need or like to do. On Sunday we rest on what Christ has done and honor him and seek his will. The biblical definition of Sunday is found in Isaiah Chapter 58:13, 14. We need that day to worship and fellowship, to study the Bible, that is, to do the things that please Him.

Keeping the law in order to be saved or keep salvation is impossible because everyone is dead in sin (Eph: 2:5) and there are non that understand (Ro 3:11). It is important to know the law and the Bible to be made aware of our need for a savior (Gal 2:19, Gal 3:23; 3:25). After God saves an individual that person has been given a new resurrected soul (John 3:3-7) and is free from the law (Gal 3:13). The good works that result from being saved will naturally be aligned with the law.

The Old Testament Sabbaths ended at the cross when Jesus was in the tomb. A new era of Sabbath days began when Christ rose that Sunday morning. In Colossians 2 we read that the Old Testament Sabbath was a sign, a shadow of things to come. From Matthew 28:1 “In the end of the Sabbaths, as it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths.” The Saturday during which Christ was in the tomb was the end of the Old Testament era of Sabbaths. The next day, which was Sunday, is the first Sabbath day of a new era of Sabbaths. From then on, each and every Sunday is the Sabbath. (See also Mark 16: 2, 16:9).Also in Luke 24:1 we read from the Greek manuscripts: “Now upon the first of the Sabbaths [not “week”], very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulcher.” This is exactly the same language we found in Matthew 28 and Mark 16. God again insists that the Sunday morning after the cross begins a new era of Sabbaths.

God did the work that is to be featured on Sunday. It is on that day that Christ rose from the grave. He completed the work required for our salvation on the New Testament Sabbath day. The work a true believer is to focus upon each Sunday. The focus should be on the work of raising people from the (spiritually) dead. That is, we are to be concerned with the preaching of the Gospel so that people might become saved.

In Acts 20:7, we read of the church at Troas gathering together on the first of the week to break bread. It was at that time that Paul preached to them. The phrase “first of the week” is the same in the Greek as that used in Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20:1. Significantly, God instructs us that on this Sabbath Paul preached until midnight. This strongly implies that even as the seventh day Sabbath was to be observed as a 24hour period, so is the Sunday Sabbath to be a 24 hour period. Jesus had risen while it was still dark (John 20). We can see that the Sunday Sabbath is to begin while it is still dark, thus reinforcing the 24hour nature of the Sunday Sabbath.

The Holy Spirit was poured out (Acts 2) at Pentecost, which was the eighth Sunday after the cross. On the first Sunday, Jesus was resurrected. On the eighth Sunday, God began His work of spiritually resurrecting (saving) the peoples of the world. Thus, God in a third dramatic way points to the purpose of Sunday as a day to share the Gospel so that others might become saved.
In our day, Sunday has become a day when very few seriously ask the question: What is God's good pleasure for this day? It is a day that has become my day, with the emphasis on me and mine. It is part of my weekend. Unfortunately, few people regard Sunday as God's holy day, which has been beautifully set apart so that we can earnestly, zealously, sincerely, and faithfully serve our Savior.

I encourage you to do your best to use Monday – Saturday night to get things done you need to (like homework). Sunday should be spent “in the word.” Nothing is more important than being in the environment in which God saves. This environment is the Bible alone (Romans 10:17, Eph 5:26 I Thessalonians 2:13, Eph: 1:13).

In Christ's service,
Dave

 

[Athaliamum]

I really don't think it matters what the particular name of the day is whether it is Saturday or Sunday. Just chose one of them and keep it - as in don't change it every week to fit in with your plans. Shabbat is about acknowledging God I don't think he cares what day we call it in our calender. And yes while we are not under the law - as in having to do it - it is good to do it.

If you like I have a list of special shabbat readings and blessings that are tradtional to be preformed - they are messianic so they also inclue NT readings too. Shabbat is also about enjoying the pleasures that God has given us - like good food and family.