So...Biden Also Took Private Documents

[Ana the Ist]

Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office | CNN Politics

Attorney General Merrick Garland has asked the US attorney in Chicago to investigate the matter, a source familiar with the matter tells CNN.

amp.cnn.com

He took some classified documents from his time as VP under Obama to his private office somewhere blah blah blah.

I remember pointing out that at these levels of the federal government, this stuff happens all the time. It's the exact same crime Trump is accused of in the Mar A Lago raid. How did they know where to look? Hmmm.

"The classified materials included some top-secret files with the "sensitive compartmented information" designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources."

Fun stuff. I recall people saying Trump should be jailed for life. What should happen to Biden?

Thoughts?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Clear differences in the two stories, but it's been referred to a Trump appointee at DOJ.

On the day of this discovery, November 2, 2022, the White House Counsel's Office notified the National Archives. The Archives took possession of the materials the following morning."

"The discovery of these documents was made by the President's attorneys," Sauber added. "The documents were not the subject of any previous request or inquiry by the Archives. Since that discovery, the President's personal attorneys have cooperated with the Archives and the Department of Justice in a process to ensure that any Obama-Biden Administration records are appropriately in the possession of the Archives."

Biden's team cooperated with NARA, which later came to view the situation as a mistake due to lack of safeguards for documents, the source said.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office | CNN Politics

Attorney General Merrick Garland has asked the US attorney in Chicago to investigate the matter, a source familiar with the matter tells CNN.

amp.cnn.com

He took some classified documents from his time as VP under Obama to his private office somewhere blah blah blah.

I remember pointing out that at these levels of the federal government, this stuff happens all the time. It's the exact same crime Trump is accused of in the Mar A Lago raid. How did they know where to look? Hmmm.

"The classified materials included some top-secret files with the "sensitive compartmented information" designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources."

Fun stuff. I recall people saying Trump should be jailed for life. What should happen to Biden?

Thoughts?

All depends on which party is in charge. Obviously Biden has nothing to worry about and Trump does. For now. By the time Biden is retired his lawyers can plead incompetence to stand trial so Biden skates away free no matter what.

 

[Valletta]

Clear differences in the two stories, but it's been referred to a Trump appointee at DOJ.

On the day of this discovery, November 2, 2022, the White House Counsel's Office notified the National Archives. The Archives took possession of the materials the following morning."

"The discovery of these documents was made by the President's attorneys," Sauber added. "The documents were not the subject of any previous request or inquiry by the Archives. Since that discovery, the President's personal attorneys have cooperated with the Archives and the Department of Justice in a process to ensure that any Obama-Biden Administration records are appropriately in the possession of the Archives."

Biden's team cooperated with NARA, which later came to view the situation as a mistake due to lack of safeguards for documents, the source said.

I don't understand how it is a "mistake" for Vice President Biden by a crime for President Trump. So it's OK to have classified documents if the documents were not part of a request by the National Archives? How about if Joe was selling nuclear secrets, is that OK? Have the offices of Joe's attorneys been raided? How about the Biden residence, has it been raided with guns drawn and searched for a day?

 

[chevyontheriver]

I don't understand how it is a "mistake" for Vice President Biden by a crime for President Trump. So it's OK to have classified documents if the documents were not part of a request by the National Archives? How about if Joe was selling nuclear secrets, is that OK? Have the offices of Joe's attorneys been raided? How about the Biden residence, has it been raided with guns drawn and searched for a day?

It's really very simple. Who is Attorney General? Friend or foe of Trump? Friend or foe of Biden? It's all about who your friends are. Nothing else matters. Normally it would be how much money you have, but here it's friends and what they owe you.

Don't make this about Justice. It isn't. Not at all.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I don't understand how it is a "mistake" for Vice President Biden by a crime for President Trump. So it's OK to have classified documents if the documents were not part of a request by the National Archives? How about if Joe was selling nuclear secrets, is that OK? Have the offices of Joe's attorneys been raided? How about the Biden residence, has it been raided with guns drawn and searched for a day?

It's easy to understand the difference between a mistake and a deliberate act.

Case #1
NARA asks Trump for the Hurricane Dorian Sharpie doc and the Kim Jong Un love letters and anything else that belongs to We The People.
NARA asks Trump again, pretty please.
Some documents are turned over.
NARA tells DOJ some of the documents given back were sensitive, others were torn up or otherwise not preserved in accordance with the law.
NARA/DOJ subpoenas Trump for additional documents.
DOJ tells the Trump camp 'While you're responding to our request, you really should put all of those documents in a secure place.'
Trump's team unstealthily moves some documents from that place to Trump's personal residence.
Some subpoenaed documents are turned over. Trump lawyers sign something saying, "That's it, that's all the stuff we could find."
DOJ serves a search warrant, and uncovers a number of withheld documents, even the ones the Trump camp hid in the meantime.

Case #2
Biden's team finds stuff that (stipulated) shouldn't be there and immediately alerts NARA and turns over the docs.

Legal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents. But these situations are typically handled administratively, not criminally, since the criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents includes proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.

Which of the two cases seems to meet this criterion?

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's easy to understand the difference between a mistake and a deliberate act.

The deliberate act of removing official documents from the White House?

@essentialsaltes....I watched people argue for months that even just possessing these documents was a criminal act. "Trump can't just take classified documents with him!"

What are we now saying? That it's OK to violate the rules as long as you say "oopsie"?

If this isn't a crime....then having documents in possession at Mar A Lago isn't either. Trump just has to say "oops...forgot about those".

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office | CNN Politics

Attorney General Merrick Garland has asked the US attorney in Chicago to investigate the matter, a source familiar with the matter tells CNN.

amp.cnn.com

He took some classified documents from his time as VP under Obama to his private office somewhere blah blah blah.

I remember pointing out that at these levels of the federal government, this stuff happens all the time. It's the exact same crime Trump is accused of in the Mar A Lago raid. How did they know where to look? Hmmm.

"The classified materials included some top-secret files with the "sensitive compartmented information" designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources."

Fun stuff. I recall people saying Trump should be jailed for life. What should happen to Biden?

Thoughts?

If I'm responding as a Democrat: "Nothing because there's a difference you see Biden's name doesn't rhyme with Lump"

If I'm a Republican: "Lock him up! He deserves to be jailed."

If it's actually me as a Republican: "I've stopped caring about politics a long time ago."

 

[essentialsaltes]

The deliberate act of removing official documents from the White House?

Nothing necessarily illegal about that. There was nothing (necessarily) wrong with Trump having those documents at Mar a Lago during his presidency.

@essentialsaltes....I watched people argue for months that even just possessing these documents was a criminal act. "Trump can't just take classified documents with him!"

What are we now saying? That it's OK to violate the rules as long as you say "oopsie"?

the criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents includes proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.

Trump just has to say "oops...forgot about those".

Unfortunately, he's on record saying, "Yeah I took those! They're mine!" [I paraphrase]

OK, this one is a direct quote: "I want my documents back!"

 

[Ana the Ist]

Nothing necessarily illegal about that. There was nothing (necessarily) wrong with Trump having those documents at Mar a Lago during his presidency.

Oh ok....

the criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents includes proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.

But he took them while president...he didn't sneak in afterwards like Mission Impossible.

..



Unfortunately, he's on record saying, "Yeah I took those! They're mine!" [I paraphrase]

Seems to demonstrate he wasn't aware he was violating rules.

OK, this one is a direct quote: "I want my documents back!"

Uh huh...well he was trying to turn over documents, and had, but apparently...some were missing. You know how it is...these documents end up all over the place.

Biden’s excuse for breaking the rules literally created by the federal administration he worked as the #2 guy in is "oopsie"?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

But he took them while president...he didn't sneak in afterwards like Mission Impossible.

"Secure" meaning "store securely in the proper place", not "obtain".

Seems to demonstrate he wasn't aware he was violating rules.

Perhaps not initially. But then the people who enforce the rules told him that he was violating the rules and he continued violating them. And at any rate, ignorance of the law is rarely an excuse.

Uh huh...well he was trying to turn over documents, and had, but apparently...some were missing. You know how it is...these documents end up all over the place.

Biden’s excuse for breaking the rules literally created by the federal administration he worked as the #2 guy in is "oopsie"?

It Trump had said "oopsie" and given everything back (or at least made a good-faith effort to do so) as soon as he knew that he had material he wasn't supposed to, that whole saga would have been a big nothingburger as well. But he didn't.

 

[Say it aint so]

Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office | CNN Politics

Attorney General Merrick Garland has asked the US attorney in Chicago to investigate the matter, a source familiar with the matter tells CNN.

amp.cnn.com

He took some classified documents from his time as VP under Obama to his private office somewhere blah blah blah.

I remember pointing out that at these levels of the federal government, this stuff happens all the time. It's the exact same crime Trump is accused of in the Mar A Lago raid. How did they know where to look? Hmmm.

"The classified materials included some top-secret files with the "sensitive compartmented information" designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources."

Fun stuff. I recall people saying Trump should be jailed for life. What should happen to Biden?

Thoughts?

The difference is when Trump was notified he had them, he refused to turn them over, when asked twice. He claimed they were his property. So one is obstruction of the DOJ trying to get them back, the other is discovering they were misplaced and making sure they got back. One is cooperating with the DOJ, the other is fighting or has fought with every tooth and nail not to.

 

[mark46]

The deliberate act of removing official documents from the White House?

@essentialsaltes....I watched people argue for months that even just possessing these documents was a criminal act. "Trump can't just take classified documents with him!"

What are we now saying? That it's OK to violate the rules as long as you say "oopsie"?

If this isn't a crime....then having documents in possession at Mar A Lago isn't either. Trump just has to say "oops...forgot about those".

No president will be charged for taking a document out of the White House.

And yes, there is a difference between violating the rules on one hand, and committing my violations of the law on the other .

 

[Ana the Ist]

No president will be charged for taking a document out of the White House.

Ok.

And yes, there is a difference between violating the rules on one hand, and committing my violations of the law on the other .

Uh...right. What law are you referring to?

 

[Ana the Ist]

The difference is when Trump was notified he had them, he refused to turn them over, when asked twice. He claimed they were his property. So one is obstruction of the DOJ trying to get them back, the other is discovering they were misplaced and making sure they got back. One is cooperating with the DOJ, the other is fighting or has fought with every tooth and nail not to.

Well that's certainly the story of this administration.


Of course, if they had evidence of a crime....why hasn't he been charged?

 

[Valletta]

It's easy to understand the difference between a mistake and a deliberate act.

Case #1
NARA asks Trump for the Hurricane Dorian Sharpie doc and the Kim Jong Un love letters and anything else that belongs to We The People.
NARA asks Trump again, pretty please.
Some documents are turned over.
NARA tells DOJ some of the documents given back were sensitive, others were torn up or otherwise not preserved in accordance with the law.
NARA/DOJ subpoenas Trump for additional documents.
DOJ tells the Trump camp 'While you're responding to our request, you really should put all of those documents in a secure place.'
Trump's team unstealthily moves some documents from that place to another place.
Some subpoenaed documents are turned over. Trump lawyers sign something saying, "That's it, that's all the stuff we could find."
DOJ serves a search warrant, and uncovers a number of withheld documents, even the ones the Trump camp hid in the meantime.

Case #2
Biden's team finds stuff that (stipulated) shouldn't be there and immediately alerts NARA and turns over the docs.

Legal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents. But these situations are typically handled administratively, not criminally, since the criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents includes proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.

Which of the two cases seems to meet this criterion?

So Joe had classified documents that he kept in a closet at a place where he operated that was run by the University of Pennsylvania. Joe held a position at the university from 2017 to 2019. The documents, some of which were marked TOP SECRET, were discovered just before the last election but the find was kept secret until recently. Mr. Biden still has made no statement as to why or how these documents came into his possession or why he risked national security by keeping TOP SECRET documents at an unsecured location or why they were just left there. Was he selling nuclear secrets or other secrets to China or other countries the Bidens do business with? You quote unnamed "legal experts" who claim mishandling classified documents is not uncommon and typically handled administratively! In fact those who handle classified documents take the handling very seriously, following specific protocols for taking classified documents out of a secure facility.
Joe was not covered by the Presidential Records Act as was President Trump, the vice president does NOT have the same authority as does a president. Apparently Joe left our national security secrets at a facility not guarded by any federal agents.

 

[driewerf]

For those wondering why the FBI didn't raid Biden's office, The Hill has an article about it:

Biden documents: How the discovery of classified materials differs from Trump

The White House on Monday disclosed that lawyers for President Biden discovered what they called a “small number” of classified documents in November in an office Biden had used between his time se…

thehill.com

The key phrase seems to be:
"The president’s lawyers alerted the National Archives the same day of the discovery, and the agency took possession of the materials the next morning."

kind regards,
driewerf

 

[Hazelelponi]

depends on which party is in charge

This is the problem. Our Constitution guarantees equality under the law.

I am not opposed to going after people who break the law, but I'm heavily against this inequality we see today. Now, if you're republican you are guaranteed jail time for anything they can drum up against you - and they'll look until they find even the smallest thing.

But Dems? Free passes to go around...

 

[Ceallaigh]

The same nothing that happened to Hillary will happen to Biden and Trump.

 

[Ana the Ist]

For those wondering why the FBI didn't raid Biden's office, The Hill has an article about it:

Biden documents: How the discovery of classified materials differs from Trump

The White House on Monday disclosed that lawyers for President Biden discovered what they called a “small number” of classified documents in November in an office Biden had used between his time se…

thehill.com

The key phrase seems to be:
"The president’s lawyers alerted the National Archives the same day of the discovery, and the agency took possession of the materials the next morning."

kind regards,
driewerf

Well it's not really that they should be raiding the office....but probably the lawyers' offices, and all of Joe's other places of work and living.

If he's just forgetting material like this....you know....for reasons.....then the guy currently in charge of national security is a threat to national security.