Smoking-gun evidence domestic cats and wild cats share a common ancestor!

[ifriit]

ern: I don't think there needs to be a hard line drawn between micro and macro, most examples of evolution are either obviously micro, such as this topics example, or obviously attempts to show macro, such as archaeopteryx, and are refuted by creationists as examples.

*chuckle* "IS NOT" does not a refutation make.

 

[paulewog]

archeaoptrix, my biology book had that in it. I forgot what it said about it though. hehe. I do know that there are other birds with teeth... at least, if I remember right....

Kinda scary, a teethed bird. Without teeth their bites hurt enough!

 

[jon1101]

Originally posted by ern
I don't think there needs to be a hard line drawn between micro and macro, most examples of evolution are either obviously micro, such as this topics example, or obviously attempts to show macro, such as archaeopteryx, and are refuted by creationists as examples.

  You're evading. If you can't tell me what macroevolution is, you cannot use the argument that no macroevolution happens with any validity. Simple as that.

-jon

 

[Morat]

archeaoptrix, my biology book had that in it. I forgot what it said about it though. hehe. I do know that there are other birds with teeth... at least, if I remember right....

Kinda scary, a teethed bird. Without teeth their bites hurt enough

  There are no birds that retain teeth into adulthood. There are, I believe two species that have juvenile teeth. And, of course, the toothbuds tend to form and get reabsorbed in bird embryos.

   Of course, Archy has lots of features you don't find in birds, but only in reptiles. And vice versa, of course.

 

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Question for cat-lovers. Do you believe the following animals could have had a common ancestor? Why or why not?

 

[ern]

Originally posted by Cancer To Iniquity
  You're evading. If you can't tell me what macroevolution is, you cannot use the argument that no macroevolution happens with any validity. Simple as that.

-jon

I know what macroevolution is, it is the change of one "kind" into another. Now on my definition of kind, I think that could be brought up on a case by case basis, since it is hard to make a generalization that would fit all species. In this case, it appears obvious to me that a domestic cat, and a wild cat, are of the same kind.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by ern
In this case, it appears obvious to me that a domestic cat, and a wild cat, are of the same kind.

Based on what, exactly?

 

[ern]

The similar traits they both have, and similar looks. If you want me to list them, I'll need some time to look them up, I'm not a cat expert.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by ern
The similar traits they both have, and similar looks.

So, would you agree that the group of animals I posted in post #45 could have evolved from a common ancestor?

 

[ern]

I cannot really answer that question, since I know very little about any of those animal. I could do some research and attempt an answer, but I really have little interest in answering that question, since it would get us no where.

 

[ifriit]

ern: I cannot really answer that question, since I know very little about any of those animal. I could do some research and attempt an answer, but I really have little interest in answering that question, since it would get us no where.

So you can determine that domesticated cats and wildcats are the same kind just by looking at them, but you can't determine these other animals' kind in the same fashion?

How much do you know about domesticated and wild cats? How much research have you done on them?

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by ern
I cannot really answer that question, since I know very little about any of those animal. I could do some research and attempt an answer, but I really have little interest in answering that question, since it would get us no where.

They're all animals from the family Felidae (basically, they're all "cats").

From left to right, top to bottom:

Caracal (Caracal caracal)
Marbeled Cat (Pardofelis marmorata)
Sandcat (Felis margarita)
Flat-headed cat (Prionailurus planiceps)
Tiger (Panthera tigris)
Serval (Leptailarus serval)
Canadian Lynx (Lynx canadensis)
Jaguarundi (Herpailurus yaguarondi)
Asian Golded Cat (Catopuma temmincki)

My purpose of showing that picture was two-fold.

First, I wanted to show the incredible variety within the Felidae family. And second, I'm trying to find out what level of evolution you accept (basically, where you draw the line between "micro" and "macro").

 

[WinAce]

This is somewhat strange. No one has answered my oft-repeated question of whether leftover viral DNA fragments found identically in two species is proof of their common ancestry.

 

[Jerry Smith]

This is somewhat strange. No one has answered my oft-repeated question of whether leftover viral DNA fragments found identically in two species is proof of their common ancestry.

[devils advocate]No. In this case the viral DNA fragments found identically in the two species of the "cat" kind probably did come about by common ancestry. However, this does not mean that this is always the case! Perhaps in other instances, a retrovirus inserted in a site-specific way in two different kinds of organisms, mimicking the effect perceived here.[/devils advocate]

Ace - since you are not likely to get a creationist to engage your question, I figured this might help the argument along some... (Alright you creationists -- just cut & paste the part between the tags & you are set!)