Smacking Children

[ottaia]

If we are not above what you call "ignorant assumptions", are you going to beat us up to make us understand? (Yes, sarcastic, but where does the physical force end?)

 

[Cerberus~]

If we are not above what you call "ignorant assumptions", are you going to beat us up to make us understand? (Yes, sarcastic, but where does the physical force end?)

Well I wasn't before, now I just don't know...

I clearly stated in my post the appropriate time for spanking a child.

 

[christalee4]

My mom didn't spank me for the first 6 years of my life. In first grade, I was Brat Numero Uno. Fortunately my parents divorced and my step father (a Marine) wasn't into the "Ophra" parenting style and kicked my ass. I've seen violence, and the occasional swat on the ass isn't it.

Do you see any connection between the above and this:

I smoke pot, and I curse like a sailor.....

...And I could have little brat minding in 20 minutes.

"let's to go to bed honey"
"Screw you, mommy!"
"hun, let's to bed now, or I'm gonna make you go to bed"
"Shove it up your ass, mommy!"

Spank em, carry them to bed, and let them cry it out. If they come back of their room, spank them, and take them back to bed. Eventually, they'll stop coming out when their ass starts hurting enough...

...It's simple.

I am sorry that your stepfather mistreated you. Mistreatment does not make someone "tough" or "straighten" them out. It makes them angry, resentful and teaches them to be less patient. The above scenario portrays something that Michael and Debbie Pearl, the couple whose No Greater Joy website advocates repeated spanking (with an instrument) until the child is broken, or as you say, "when their ass starts hurting enough". It's angry and denotes that there is some kind of war going on between the parent and child, that the parent must wage with full force until he subdues the child.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Well I wasn't before, I now I'm starting to think it might do you a world of good...

I clearly stated in my post the appropriate time for spanking a child.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cerberus~ again.

C'mon brother, don't let your emotions get you into trouble here.

 

[TexasSky]

Is a light slap on the face child abuse?

Think about it.
If you "lightly slap your coworker on the face," can she sue you for assault? (The answer for those in the United States is "yes" you could. Serious physical damage is not a requirement of an assault charge. Even if you got by without being sued, you'd end up unemployed.)

And how would you react if your child came home and said her teacher or the neighbor or a store clerk slapped her?

 

[TexasSky]

Bill Cosby used to talk about disciplining children and used to say that the easiest way to make a child who is screaming they won't go to their room comply with your orders is not to spank them, but to pick them up and put them in their room.

I know a young man who is 20 years old. A good Christian young man, a good witness to the Lord. NOW.

When he was 15 he had sex with another girl at the church his father was pastor of.

When he was 16 he got arrested for drunk driving.

When he talks about those events in his past he says, "I did them because I wanted to hurt my father. I stopped doing them because I couldn't stand hurting my mother."

His father was strict, and his father spanked.
His mother was soft spoken, and her methods of discipline were carefully designed to fit the crime.

Your child spills milk on the floor after being warned against it.

You spank or slap - your child learns "hitting people for mistakes is okay."
You tell the child, "Clean up the mess on the floor, and do the dishes." - your child learns, "Making a mess means more work, and delay in having fun."

Your child throws a tantrum in public -
You spank - your child throws a bigger tantrum and the parents around you get VERY irritated because you've just made their trip into public even less enjoyable.
You tell your child - You will not be allowed to go the fun-kiddy-place you were going to go to because I will not have you defy me in public like this. The child learns "throwing tantrums hurts me more than it does Mom."

Your child treats you with no respect - - - You caused that.

Fear is NOT respect.

 

[TexasSky]

BTW - regarding the comment about "the number of kids into drugs," and other horrible activities - - - interestingly enough - my family has done a LOT of work with "troubled teens" and "troubled kids". The majority of the kids into drugs, under age drinking, premarital sex, etc, that we encounter come from homes where spanking is the first resort, or where a "slap across the face" is considered a good idea.

Again, there are times when spanking, done properly, may be appropriate. But properly is discussing it before it is done, setting an exact number of licks, being sure to ONLY hit the behind, making your goal "showing discipline" not "making them cry." You, as an adult, must be calm. And it should be a LAST RESORT. Never a first, never in anger.

 

[Cerberus~]

Do you see any connection between the above and this:

No, I see no connection between the 2, Dr Phil. Please, enlighten me.

This should be interesting.

I am sorry that your stepfather mistreated you.

Honestly, I'm not. I mean there are better ways of getting the results that he got, ways that I would have prefered more, but hey, I like who I am today. And a big reason I am who I am is because of my stepdad.

Mistreatment does not make someone "tough" or "straighten" them out.

Sure it does.

It makes them angry, resentful and teaches them to be less patient.

That's true to an extent. There was a time when I was all of those things. I even learned some patience.

The above scenario portrays something that Michael and Debbie Pearl, the couple whose No Greater Joy website advocates repeated spanking (with an instrument) until the child is broken, or as you say, "when their ass starts hurting enough".

There's no need to use an instrument. A hand is sufficient.

It's angry and denotes that there is some kind of war going on between the parent and child, that the parent must wage with full force until he subdues the child.

1. It should never be done in anger. But if the kid is telling you to p*ss off, then having him sit in corner for 10 minutes isn't going to work, because he isn't going to do it, because if he did, he would be listening, thus nullifying having to spank him in the first place!

2. Sometimes it is a war. When the kid will not behave, will not listen, does what they please, then that kid is going to make it a war when you make him obey.

3. Full force is punching a kid like you would a dude who touched your wife's breasts.

Ya know, I don't think ya'll could be exagerating about this any more than you already are.

 

[TexasSky]

I totally disagree with the "we don't spank" mentality. I can pick these kids out of a crowd... These are the ones screaming and running around the resturant, while Mommy threatens to count to 3.

Small children are EGOSENTRIC. This means they cannot be reasoned with on the level you think they should be reasoning at. They're little minds are just not there yet. Sometimes they need a little pop on the butt, and that it brings their attention back to you... Then, you can make them understand why they are not to do whatever it was they did wrong. And then you need stick to it. As they get older you won't need to spank because you will then be able to appeal to their maturing ablity to understand how their actions effect the world around them--outside of their direct perspective.

To me, when you try to reason, "aka" bargin, with small children. All you are doing is teaching them to how manipulate you. And that is truely counter productive.

I never feel children should be beaten... But spanking it neccesary in most cases it seems to me. And it varies. Some kids need a lighter touch than others.

Actually, the Mommies who count to three are the Mommies who end up hitting after three.

I was not a spanker and my children behaved themselves in public much better than the children whose parents spank.

I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've had to ask the Lord to forgive me for wanting to slap the parents who take a crying child into some place like a restaurant or a movie and then tell the child to hush, following this by spanking the child for crying louder.

Your child makes a scene in public, you take the child to your car.

You don't beat the child in public, and make it worse.
You don't beat the child at all.

You're the fool who brought too young a child into an adult setting and expected a CHILD to act like an adult.

 

[TexasSky]

"let's to go to bed honey"
"Screw you, mommy!"
"hun, let's to bed now, or I'm gonna make you go to bed"
"Shove it up your ass, mommy!"

Spank em, carry them to bed, and let them cry it out. If they come back of their room, spank them, and take them back to bed. Eventually, they'll stop coming out when their ass starts hurting enough.

It's simple.
I agree with Cerberus. Some kids don't need to be spanked, but there are kids that try to walk all over their parents because they know they can get away with it. Those are the kids that can use a spanking(by spanking I don't mean kick the crap out of them).

If your child is saying, "Screw you mommy," and "shove it up your *** Mommy" ... they learned it from you, and again - you are the one who needs the spanking, not the child.

 

[Cerberus~]

You don't beat the child in public, and make it worse.
You don't beat the child at all.

What's wrong with you? Why are you so dense as to not understand the vast difference between beating and spanking?

 

[ottaia]

http://www.endabuse.org/

 

[Cerberus~]

If your child is saying, "Screw you mommy," and "shove it up your *** Mommy" ... they learned it from you, and again - you are the one who needs the spanking, not the child.

That completely ignorant, and goes against what I've heard you complain about in other posts. I've heard you go on and on about how the schools shouldn't be teaching kids that homosexuality and various other things are ok, but then you turn around and pretend that everything bad your child learns comes from you?

So if your child learns that homosexuality is A-OK, did they learn it from you?

 

[quatona]

I've only used hot sauce on my son twice in his five years of existence, and both times the amount of hot sauce was the amount on my fingertip. I put it on his tounge. Since then, I just threaten him with it, not actually do it. He's afraid of the hot sauce technique.

I am convinced that threatening helpless beings with things they are afraid of is not a good idea.
This is conditioning, not education.

It is counterproductive to what I would like children to understand and learn.

Considering that children (and humans in general) learn social behaviour by modeling others´ behaviour (as opposed to what people say), it teaches them that threatening physically weaker persons with frightening physical actions is a good idea (those who claim to be their models, and want to be acknowledged as such, do it, after all).
I don´t want to teach this standard to children.
Ymmv

 

[quatona]

Is a light slap on the face child abuse?

I think the term "child abuse" has a pretty clear definition, and I do not really like the idea of broadening the meaning of such terms - it leads to undifferenciated equivocations.
Any form of physical punishment of children is a demonstration of and a lesson in "might makes right". For me, this is the very definition of "abuse of power".

 

[quatona]

What's wrong with you? Why are you so dense as to not understand the vast difference between beating and spanking?

This is an example for what I consider respectless communication, and it is an example for a way of communicating that I don´t want children to learn. That´s why I would try my best not to talk that way, neither to adults nor to children.

 

[christalee4]

Honestly, I'm not. I mean there are better ways of getting the results that he got, ways that I would have prefered more, but hey, I like who I am today. And a big reason I am who I am is because of my stepdad.

"Cursing like a sailor and smoking pot?"

Declaring that mistreatment makes kids tough? It might make them tough, but it will make them angry as hell. You admit that your stepdad could have chosen not resort to violence, but he did. You survived it, yes, but it was still not right if he did indeed mistreat you like you alluded to. I remarried and if my husband had ever hurt my son inappropriately, I would have packed my husband's bag and shown him the door.

Here's my Dr. Phil moment, since you've asked me. "Cerebus: perhaps you are angry at your mother, who never spanked you, for not sticking up for you when your stepfather beat you. Which is why you categorize people who don't spank as wusses. Which is why you seem to be an angry, hostile person." End of Dr. Phil moment.

That's true to an extent. There was a time when I was all of those things. I even learned some patience.

Patience for what - for when you could grow up and give it back to your stepfather?

1. It should never be done in anger. But if the kid is telling you to p*ss off, then having him sit in corner for 10 minutes isn't going to work, because he isn't going to do it, because if he did, he would be listening, thus nullifying having to spank him in the first place!

That's why usually, as you answered yourself, other methods are just as effective compared to hauling off and spanking the kid the moment the words fly out of his mouth. What kind of children talk like that? Sounds like the kid would be possessed by Azazel, and then spanking isn't going to work - you need a good exorcist and restraints.

2. Sometimes it is a war. When the kid will not behave, will not listen, does what they please, then that kid is going to make it a war when you make him obey.

It all depends on the age of the child. If a child is as you describe above, quite young, from 5 to 10 years old, then that is more of a crisis. A child is not equal to a parent; the parent is older, is responsible and is in charge of caring and raising the child. A child that young who is completely out of control like that has a mental problem, and spanking it out of the kid won't help. Now, if a kid is a teen, say, 16, 17 years old, and is out of control like that - spanking won't help either. Say the kid is on drugs, is in trouble with the law - yes, it seems like a war. Spanking and beating won't help that situation either. A parent is still the parent, and the child is the child - they are not equal opponents in combat.

 

[Gomez]

If your child is saying, "Screw you mommy," and "shove it up your *** Mommy" ... they learned it from you, and again - you are the one who needs the spanking, not the child.

Hmmmmmm. You do know kids learn cuss words at school and from hearing other people in public swear? Not everything is learned from the parents. Maybe you should be spanked for making huge generalizations?

 

[Gomez]

Here's my Dr. Phil moment, since you've asked me. "Cerebus: perhaps you are angry at your mother, who never spanked you, for not sticking up for you when your stepfather beat you. Which is why you categorize people who don't spank as wusses. Which is why you seem to be an angry, hostile person." End of Dr. Phil moment.

I don't recall Cerberus calling anyone who doesn't spank their child a wuss.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

I am convinced that threatening helpless beings with things they are afraid of is not a good idea.
This is conditioning, not education.

It is counterproductive to what I would like children to understand and learn.

Considering that children (and humans in general) learn social behaviour by modeling others´ behaviour (as opposed to what people say), it teaches them that threatening physically weaker persons with frightening physical actions is a good idea (those who claim to be their models, and want to be acknowledged as such, do it, after all).
I don´t want to teach this standard to children.
Ymmv

So I guess teaching my kids to look both ways before crossing the road, for they may get and/or killed by a vehicle is not allowed, for it's instilling fear into them and we can't allow that to happen, now can we.