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Slavery, a Guide

Tom 1

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You seem rather confused, Tom. All I need to do is to show that God and Jesus, through the Bible, plainly approve of the institution of slavery. It's not difficult to do so, but why reinvent the wheel? I don't, of course, want to direct you to an unsafe site. Therefore, here are the key points from Pastor Warren's 1861 sermon. If you disagree with them, perhaps you can explain why?

THE SCRIPTURAL VINDICATION OF SLAVERY
by Ebenezer W. Warren

Eph. 5:5-8, “Servants, (bondsmen,) be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart as unto Christ; not with eye service as men-pleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; with good will doing service as unto the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.” I am to present this morning a Bible exposition of the subject of slavery. A sermon on a topic so unusual to a Southern audience, may need a word of explanation to justify it. Two reasons will be sufficient for this purpose:

1. Slavery forms a vital element of the Divine Revelation to man. Its institution, regulation, and perpetuity, constitute a part of many of the books of the Bible.

God instituted it in the days of Noah, and gave it His sanction again at Mt. Sinai. His Son commended it during his ministry on earth. The holy apostle Paul, exhorted his son Timothy to preach it; and Peter teaches a most important precept as to its obligations.

If God, through Noah, after the flood, and at Sinai, through the Law—if Christ during his ministry, and the apostles in their writings, instituted, regulated and promulgated slavery—it is not less imperative on me, to “declare the whole counsel of God” on this subject, than it is on any other, which the wise and beneficent Creator has seen proper to reveal to man.
...
Slavery Ordained and Perpetuated by God

More than two thousand years before the christian era, slavery was instituted by decree of heaven, and published to the world by Noah, a “preacher of righteousness.” Here is the decree, Genesis 9:25-27, “Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants, shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, blessed be the Lord God of Shem, and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.” The Jews descended from Shem, the Europeans and Americans from Japheth, the Africans from Ham, the father of Canaan.

To show that the above language was the announcement of heaven’s decree concerning slavery, and that Noah was speaking as he was moved by the Holy Spirit, we have only to refer to its explanation and fulfillment by the descendants of Shem, as recorded in the 25th chapter of Leviticus. God gave to Abraham, a descendant of Shem, and to his seed after him the land of the Canaanites, into the possession of which they came in the days of Joshua. After the children of Israel came into the possession of the land, God gave them the following instruction as to bringing the people into bondage: “Both thy bond men and thy bond maids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you (these were the descendants of Canaan, and hence called Canaanites), of them shall ye BUY BOND MEN AND BOND MAIDS. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land; and they shall be your possessions. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for possession; they shall be your bond men forever.” (verses 44-46)

Here is a decree from the Creator, giving to one man the right of holding another in involuntary servitude. Man holding his fellow man as his property, and enjoined to perpetuate that property by inheritance to his children, forever.

Three points are here gained.

1. The establishment of slavery by divine decree.
2. The right to buy and sell men and women into bondage.
3. The perpetuity of the institution by the same authority.

A theocratic government, that is, one in which God, as the ruler, gives immediate direction, was established over the Israelites and continued for about four hundred years. The government was fully organized at Mount Sinai. The Constitution (called the Decalogue) given on that occasion, is considered the basis of all good law, and the standard of moral action, in every age of the world down to the present time – it is as of universal application as the gospel of Christ. It guarantees to the slaveholder the peaceable and unmolested right to his slave property, in language as emphatic as does the Constitution of the United States. Hear its enactment on this subject.

“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house; thou shalt not covet they neighbor’s wife, nor his MAN SERVANT, not his MAID SERVANT, nor his ox, nor his ass, not anything that is thy neighbor’s”

Is a man entitled to the unmolested occupation of his house? This Divine Constitution guarantees to him the same right to his servants. Has any man the right to interfere with the domestic relation of husband and wife? Equally secure is the relation of master and servant made by this enactment of heaven. Should a man’s right to the exclusive and perpetual possession of his ox, or his ass, or of any other property of which he may be possessed, be secured to him by constitutional enactment? No more so, determined the unerring wisdom of the most high God, than the right of masters to their slaves.

Had God, the Great Law Giver, been opposed to slavery, he would perhaps have said, “thou shalt not hold property in man: thou shalt not enslave thy fellow being, for all men are born free and equal.” Instead of reproving the sin of covetousness, he would have denounced the sin of slavery; but instead of this denunciation, when He became the Ruler of his people, He established, regulated and perpetuated slavery by special enactment, and guaranteed the unmolested rights of masters to their slaves by Constitutional provision.



CHRIST RECONCILED AND SANCTIONED SLAVERY

The blessed Saviour descended from a slave-holder, Abraham. This “father of the faithful,” held as many bondmen, “born in his house and bought with his money,” as perhaps any slaveholder in the South. When he was chosen out, as the one “in whom all the families of the earth should be blessed,” not a word of Divine disapprobation, on account of his being a slave-holder was uttered.

His descendants, the Jews, up to the time of their national dispersion, were as emphatically a slave-holding people as we Georgians are.

The only qualification which is due to this remark, is founded on the captivity and wars which robbed them of much of their property. Such was the case when the Saviour came among them.

He reproved them for their sins. Calling them the works of the flesh and of the devil. He denounced idolatry, covetousness, adultery, fornification, hypocrisy, and many other sins of less moral turpitude, but never once reproved them for holding slaves; though He alluded to it frequently, yet never with an expression of the slightest disapprobation.
...
I desire to meet one plausible, but specious objection to slavery, urged by the abolitionists before I take my seat.

It is said that one single passage in the gospel, imperatively requires every master at once to emancipate his slaves. It is recorded in Mat. 7:12. “Therefore, all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them, for this is the law and the prophets.”

it is thought, that if the master would desire liberty, were he a slave, he is bound by this rule, to liberate his slave. But his argument is specious, and this construction, if applied to the various relations of life will subvert all the laws and regulations of society and governments.

A criminal is arraigned, tried and found guilty of a violationof the law – but the judge would not desire to be punished were he in the criminal’s place – is he bound therefore to release him? ….

A desire entertained by a servant to be set at liberty, is an unlawful desire, because its accomplishment, would violate the “law” which enjoins perpetual servitude ….

Finally a revolution in the moral sentiment of the world in the favor of slavery will yet be effected. The truly pious of all lands will yet receive the Bible, as God’s Revelation and, with the Bible they will, they must receive the theory, if not the practice of slavery.

Religious fanaticism sets up a human standard, at the bar of which the inspiration of the Bible is tried, and being found to establish, rather than abolish slavery, is condemned as coming in direct conflict with certain principles in human nature, termed the “higher law.” This fanaticism will ultimately enshrine its conceptions of philosophy as the French did reason, as the deity to whom it will pay its adorations. Freedom will become its watchword, Freedom, not only from involuntary servitude, but freedom to reject the Bible – free thinking, free loving, free acting, in a word freedom from all the moral restraints which make society virtuous and desirable.

Thus, ultimately, but certainly, I think, will this spirit of religious fanaticism, terminate in an amalgamation of abolitionism and infidelity. And so subversive of all the better interests of society and of our holy religion, will it prove, that the good and true of all communities will find, that the irresponsible conflict which is now waged between free soilism and slavery will terminate between infidelity, as the result of abolitionism, on the one hand, and the Bible and religion on the other. It requires no prophetic ken to foretell that religion and the Bible must triumph as they always have in the conflicts of the past.

Christianity has had her trials, and is now in some measure, enjoying her triumph. Slavery is her trial now, but a triumph, which shall honor God, and bless humanity awaits her in the future.

It's a bit random - God didn't 'institute' slavery, it was as much a part of life centuries before and centuries after the writing of the first books of the OT as Starbucks is today. Slavery was an integral part of society, there was no need for a God to come along and institute it. The laws and practices of the OT are geared towards keeping a society together and functioning, taking it as it is and in it's context. If you really don't get that then I really can't help you, you simply lack the ability to think about this topic for some reason.

More specifically, Abraham's entourage were not slaves, which would have been entirely impractical for a nomad. This is where your inability to understand the basic reality that the world of the ANE is not the world of the 21st C becomes an issue. The same circumstances apply today in many parts of the world - people who ally themselves with a wealthy patron who rewards their service with food, shelter and protection. This is not slavery, but essentially the same thing as society today but in a more rudimentary form and with less protection for individuals, for reasons that should be obvious.

The rest of it is just reams of random assertions, if you think any of it holds water please explain why, using the bible. There's nothing much there to address - it's just some stuff some guy thought about it. Why are you posting it?

Again, please formulate your own argument, using the relevant material, to show how your views on this are rooted in anything that might be thought of as having real application to the topic.
 
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Tom 1

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I'm glad you agree with me that slavery is a bad thing. Hopefully you will now be able to address the points I made which show that the Bible considers it to be a very good thing.

You haven't made any points. If you do so we can look at them.
 
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Tom 1

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I'm glad you agree with me that slavery is a bad thing. Hopefully you will now be able to address the points I made which show that the Bible considers it to be a very good thing.

Here are some points you could make if you want to have a point of view on it:

What forms of slavery were practised in the ANE?
What forms of slavery were practised in Hebrew society?
What, in contrast to slavery, were other forms of employment (note - HR departments, worker protections and so on did not exist) were available and how did these work? What was meant by a bondsman or other forms of allegiance to a patron of one kind or another and what alternatives were there for the workers who entered into this kind of agreement? What were the essential differences between this kind of role and that of a slave at the time?
How did societies develop? How might they have developed in some other, different way - in real, practical, actual terms please.

These could be some useful starting points, so if you can provide a coherent and developed viewpoint on any of those it could be something worth talking about. Please don't just post what some other random person had to say about any of it.

*If you have an actual interest in any of this and you aren't just virtue signalling, it could turn into a useful discussion. I have a load of other stuff to do now but, if you do actually take this issue seriously, you can put something coherent together and I'll respond to it later.
 
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You haven't made any points. If you do so we can look at them.
The excerpts from Pastor Warren's sermon do an excellent job of explaining how God views slavery as a good thing. Please do look at them, and feel free to explain their errors. If you are able to.
 
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These could be some useful starting points, so if you can provide a coherent and developed viewpoint on any of those it could be something worth talking about.
They would? They seem rather irrelevant to me. The key question is, does God approve of slavery? I've answered that He does, and the proof is readily available in the Old and New Testaments. If you can't address them - and I think that you can't - then the argument is settled.

Please don't just post what some other random person had to say about any of it.
A random person? This is a Christian leader explaining, with references from the Bible, exactly why slavery is a good thing, approved of by God. In other words, exactly what we need here. If you can't address his arguments, say so.
 
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Tom 1

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The excerpts from Pastor Warren's sermon do an excellent job of explaining how God views slavery as a good thing. Please do look at them, and feel free to explain their errors. If you are able to.

Like what? Pastor Warren thinks God 'instituted slavery' - he didn't. What reason would there be to think his opinion is accurate? What gives you the idea that references to servants and bondsmen in the KJV refers to slaves?
The bible provides a personal guide for behaviour, people who want to follow Christ are expected to follow this to the best of their ability. That includes complying with the law of the land as it is in any given period, it also includes behaving like the good Samaritan. You figure it out - all of the information you need is freely available,
 
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What arguments? Some assertions of what a person thinks are not arguments, your posts being a case in point.
But it's not what he thinks. It's what the Bible says.
Can I ask - have you read the excerpts I posted? Would you like me to rewrite them in modern, twenty-first century English?
 
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Like what? Pastor Warren thinks God 'instituted slavery' - he didn't. What reason would there be to think his opinion is accurate? What gives you the idea that references to servants and bondsmen in the KJV refers to slaves
It's the way the Bible talks about capturing them, beating them, keeping them for life and keeping their descendants as well. I don't think they were talking about Starbucks waiters.

You figure it out - all of the information you need is freely available,
Indeed it is. I can't take responsibility if you won't read it.
 
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Tom 1

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It's what the Bible says.

? Where is what he says is 'what the bible says?'

Show me, using the bible, where God 'instituted slavery'
Show me, using the bible (and the context of the relevant terms in the ANE), where a servant or bondsman is a slave
Show me, using the bible where it teaches that Abraham owned slaves
Show me, using the bible, where Paul exhorts Timothy to 'preach slavery'
Show me, using the bible, where Peter teaches slavery as a 'most important precept'
Show me, using the bible, why you think any of his other assertions are 'what the bible says'.
 
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? Where is what he says is 'what the bible says?'

Show me, using the bible, where God 'instituted slavery'
Show me, using the bible (and the context of the relevant terms in the ANE), where a servant or bondsman is a slave
Show me, using the bible where it teaches that Abraham owned slaves
Show me, using the bible, why you think any of his other assertions are 'what the bible says'.
I already did. I can keep posting it again and again, but I can't make you read it.

Slavery Ordained and Perpetuated by God

More than two thousand years before the christian era, slavery was instituted by decree of heaven, and published to the world by Noah, a “preacher of righteousness.” Here is the decree, Genesis 9:25-27, “Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants, shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, blessed be the Lord God of Shem, and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.” The Jews descended from Shem, the Europeans and Americans from Japheth, the Africans from Ham, the father of Canaan.

To show that the above language was the announcement of heaven’s decree concerning slavery, and that Noah was speaking as he was moved by the Holy Spirit, we have only to refer to its explanation and fulfillment by the descendants of Shem, as recorded in the 25th chapter of Leviticus. God gave to Abraham, a descendant of Shem, and to his seed after him the land of the Canaanites, into the possession of which they came in the days of Joshua. After the children of Israel came into the possession of the land, God gave them the following instruction as to bringing the people into bondage: “Both thy bond men and thy bond maids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you (these were the descendants of Canaan, and hence called Canaanites), of them shall ye BUY BOND MEN AND BOND MAIDS. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land; and they shall be your possessions. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for possession; they shall be your bond men forever.” (verses 44-46)

Here is a decree from the Creator, giving to one man the right of holding another in involuntary servitude. Man holding his fellow man as his property, and enjoined to perpetuate that property by inheritance to his children, forever.


"They shall be your possessions. They shall be your bond men forever". What exactly do you think those mean?
 
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Tom 1

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It's the way the Bible talks about capturing them, beating them, keeping them for life and keeping their descendants as well.

Finally, something definite. Please use the bible and your knowledge of society at the time to explain these practices in detail, what the alternatives and so on were and how it might have been done differently. This could be genuinely useful.
 
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Tom 1

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I already did

No - you are re-posting what Pastor Warren says. You are claiming that his opinions and ideas are 'in the bible'. What I am asking you is to show me where in the bible are the passages that you say are in the bible.

Do you not understand this? For example you could show me where in the bible the terms servant or bondsman are used to describe a slave. Then you could show me where Peter teaches slavery as a 'most important principle'. Do you get the difference, you are claiming that Pastor Warren is saying 'what is in the bible', so where in the bible is it?
 
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Finally, something definite. Please use the bible and your knowledge of society at the time to explain these practices in detail, what the alternatives and so on were and how it might have been done differently. This could be genuinely useful.
"Finally"? Have you not read what I've been saying? More to the point, why aren't you familiar with what the Bible says about slavery yourself? Is this all new to you?
I don't mean any offence, but before you enter a debate about slavery in the Bible, shouldn't you have some passing familiarity with the parts of the Bible that deal with slavery?

Here you are, then:
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money.”
Exodus 21:20-21
In other words, beat your slaves as much as you like; just don't kill them.

"Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life."
Exodus 21:20-21
So you can keep your slave's family hostage and the slave will be forced to be yours for the rest of his life.

"No one outside a priest's family may eat the sacred offering, nor may the guest of a priest or his hired worker eat it. But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food."
Leviticus 22:10
Children can be born into slavery.

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."
Leviticus 25:44
You can buy people, and they become your property.
 
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No - you are re-posting what Pastor Warren says. You are claiming that his opinions and ideas are 'in the bible'. What I am asking you is to show me where in the bible are the passages that you say are in the bible.

Do you not understand this? For example you could show me where in the bible the terms servant or bondsman are used to describe a slave. Then you could show me where Peter teaches slavery as a 'most important principle'. Do you get the difference, you are claiming that Pastor Warren is saying 'what is in the bible', so where in the bible is it?

It seems self-explanatory to me. What exactly do you call a "servant" who must stay with his master forever, whose children also cannot leave the master, and who can be beaten to within an inch of his life? I really suggest, before you try this "how can we know what words mean?" debating tactic, that you take a look at what the Bible says you can do to your "servants".
 
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Tom 1

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"Finally"? Have you not read what I've been saying? More to the point, why aren't you familiar with what the Bible says about slavery yourself? Is this all new to you?
I don't mean any offence, but before you enter a debate about slavery in the Bible, shouldn't you have some passing familiarity with the parts of the Bible that deal with slavery?

Here you are, then:
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money.”
Exodus 21:20-21
In other words, beat your slaves as much as you like; just don't kill them.

"Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life."
Exodus 21:20-21
So you can keep your slave's family hostage and the slave will be forced to be yours for the rest of his life.

"No one outside a priest's family may eat the sacred offering, nor may the guest of a priest or his hired worker eat it. But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food."
Leviticus 22:10
Children can be born into slavery.

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."
Leviticus 25:44
You can buy people, and they become your property.

Congratulations - you've made a coherent point. Yes, these stipulations describe common practices at the time, putting in writing the results of various scenarios of how the business of slavery was managed in Hebrew society. Now you can explain how a society 3,000 years could have been run along 21st Century lines.
 
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Tom 1

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It seems self-explanatory to me. What exactly do you call a "servant" who must stay with his master forever, whose children also cannot leave the master, and who can be beaten to within an inch of his life? I really suggest, before you try this "how can we know what words mean?" debating tactic, that you take a look at what the Bible says you can do to your "servants".

You're referring to different things there, different parts of the bible talking about different things, this is where looking at the material first hand (the passages Warren is referring to, not some general overall impressions you have) would clarify it for you.
 
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You're referring to different things there, different parts of the bible talking about different things, this is where looking at the material first hand (the passages Warren is referring to, not some general overall impressions you have) would clarify it for you.
Oh, and look at this: also from 1861 - "A discourse on mutual relations of master and slave, as taught in the Bible," by Pastor Joseph Wilson. It quite clearly explains how the word "servant" refers to slaves in the Bible.

EPHESIANS, VI: 5-9:--"Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; not with eye-service as men-pleasers, but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; with good-will doing service, as to the Lord and not to men; knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening, knowing that your Master also is in Heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."
Our attention is forcibly arrested by the very first word of this text; "servants." There is no difficulty in ascertaining its true meaning, in the original Greek. It distinctly and unequivocally signifies "slaves," springing as it does in this its substantive form from a verbal root, which means to bind. There are several words, conveying different shades of thought, which Grecians were accustomed to employ in speaking of servants, inasmuch as there are several kinds and degrees of servitude. But no one of them does so emphatically set forth the true and simple idea of domestic slavery as understood in these Southern States, as the word "
wilson5.jpg
"--the word whose plural form opens our text. It refers us to a man who is in the relation of permanent and legal bondage to another: this other having in him and his labor the strictest rights of property. The word is never employed to indicate the condition of amere hireling. It points out a dependent who is solely under the authority of a master: that master being the head of a household and wielding over his slaves the commission of a despot, whose acts are to be determined only by the restraining laws of Christianity and by general considerations of his own and their welfare: a despot responsible to God, a good conscience, and the well-being of society. I use this word "despot" advisedly. It is the scriptural opposite of "slave,"
 
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You're referring to different things there, different parts of the bible talking about different things, this is where looking at the material first hand (the passages Warren is referring to, not some general overall impressions you have) would clarify it for you.
Not really. It's quite simple. The Bible refers to slaves a number of times, and always with approval. This is the argument you have to address, if you can.
 
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