Sitting while Black

[MachZer0]

You can't answer a question that wasn't asked, Mach

The question was previously asked, thus the past tense "asked"

 

[TLK Valentine]

The question was previously asked, thus the past tense "asked"

There was no question in the post you quoted, Mach. You must've hit the wrong button

 

[MachZer0]

There was no question in the post you quoted, Mach. You must've hit the wrong button

That's why I referenced a question asked before. Past tense

 

[CaDan]

Sit down kids, and study up on covenants that run with the land such as easements.

 

[CaDan]

He's just randomly repeating phrases from that time he got deposed, I think.

 

[KarateCowboy]

A victim of public Negritude.

What is "Negritude"? Is it supposed to mean something like "Negroes being present", in a negative way?

 

[Inkachu]

St. Paul police report

He had been rousted from his seat and was leaving. Got tased and arrested anyway.

Link has a video with some not-appropriate-for-White-kids language and the police reports.

ETA: Link changed after consultation with Staff to go directly to the police reports. If you want to see the video, go find it yourself.

Note: Since the link was changed, all I have to go on right now is the police reports.

He was trespassing in an area not open to the public, and refused to cooperate with security and then with police. You make it sound like he jumped up and headed off as soon as he was confronted. Not what happened. If he HAD simply gotten up and left as soon as he was asked to, the rest wouldn't have occurred. Acting like a maniac (fighting, screaming, yelling) didn't exactly help his cause, either. Also, he claimed he was there to pick up his children from a daycare inside the building, but when the officers asked if they needed to call someone else to pick up his children, he said his kids weren't even there (?).

 

[bhsmte]

He was trespassing in an area not open to the public, and refused to cooperate with security and then with police. You make it sound like he jumped up and headed off as soon as he was confronted. Not what happened. If he HAD simply gotten up and left as soon as he was asked to, the rest wouldn't have occurred.

If you have followed the entire thread, it has yet to be officially established, as to whether the area he was sitting in was private, or for public use. I would imagine, if a suit is filed, that will be determined quite easily.

For my take, Hollie did make the situation worse with his behavior and the situation could have been avoided if he simply handled it differently. The cops responding were doing their job by trying to assess the situation, although, the male cop certainly appeared to take it a bit overboard, but the female cop showed quite a bit of restraint. IMO and I may be wrong, Hollie may have been looking to create a situation, hence the two cell phones for recording and the fact he was recording in the first place. Also, telling the cops early on he was going to sue them, tells you a bit about what was a priority in his mind.

Bottom line, if he was sitting in a public area, the security guard and the employer that told him to leave and called the cops, are really on the hook for this, much more so than the cops, though I am sure, the male cops actions, will be looked at closely.

 

[Inkachu]

IMHO even if I'm walking down Main Street USA, if a security guard or police officer sees the need to ask me where I'm going or what my business is in that area, I have no problem complying because I'm not doing anything wrong. Likewise, all this guy had to do was say "Sure, no problem" and get up and move along instead of first ignoring the security guard and police, and then getting belligerent and hollering about racism. Everyone knows that certain people have a problem with authority, especially if that authority happens to be white and hold a police badge. Instead of having the mindset of being peaceable and avoiding conflict, they act antagonistic and passive aggressive, sort of "daring" the oppressive white cops to do something, and then they scream and holler when their childish behavior is acted upon. It's the equivalent of telling your child to get away from the stove a dozen times, then when you finally lose your cool and your child dashes into the next room and says "I am getting away, I am getting away!" They had it coming for ignoring authority and direct commands. By the way, the commands were not at all unreasonable. "My name is ___ and I'm here to ___". OK, thank you, have a good day.

If some black cop came up to me and said "This area isn't for the public, you need to move along", their race wouldn't even enter my mind as being a factor. I'd say "Oh okay, sure" and go somewhere else and go about my day. Kinda preferable to winding up in jail for the sake of making some kind of socio-political statement. If I decided to ignore said cop while they repeatedly ask for my name or my business, and then try to walk away while they're still questioning me, and then start screaming "racist!" when they eventually stop me, and I wind up in jail... who put me there? I DID.

You can't say that you want racism to end and then refuse to be part of ending it.

 

[bhsmte]

IMHO even if I'm walking down Main Street USA, if a security guard or police officer sees the need to ask me where I'm going or what my business is in that area, I have no problem complying because I'm not doing anything wrong. Likewise, all this guy had to do was say "Sure, no problem" and get up and move along instead of first ignoring the security guard and police, and then getting belligerent and hollering about racism. Everyone knows that certain people have a problem with authority, especially if that authority happens to be white and hold a police badge. Instead of having the mindset of being peaceable and avoiding conflict, they act antagonistic and passive aggressive, sort of "daring" the oppressive white cops to do something, and then they scream and holler when their childish behavior is acted upon.

If some black cop came up to me and said "This area isn't for the public, you need to move along", their race wouldn't even enter my mind as being a factor. I'd say "Oh okay, sure" and go somewhere else and go about my day. Kinda preferable to winding up in jail for the sake of making some kind of socio-political statement. If I decided to ignore said cop while they repeatedly ask for my name or my business, and then try to walk away while they're still questioning me, and then start screaming "racist!" when they eventually stop me, and I wind up in jail... who put me there? I DID.

You can't say that you want racism to end and then refuse to be part of ending it.

I agree with part of what you state.

The crux of this matter will likely come down to this; was Hollie allowed to sit where he was and if so, why was he asked to leave, when the security guard had no authority to do so? This is of course, assuming it is determined it was indeed, a public area.

Maybe Hollie staged the whole thing and acted the way he did for personal motivation, maybe he didn't, I don't know for sure. But even if he did stage the situation, if it shows this security guard and his employer, are shooing off black people because they don't want them around, there is some good that comes from it.

I believe, a local newspaper sent someone down to this same area and had them sit there for a prolonged period of time and no one asked them to leave and they happened, to be white.

Still things that need to be learned from this event, before drawing any final conclusions.

 

[Inkachu]

A security guard doesn't have the authority to ask who a person is or what their business is in the building? A security guard definitely has the authority to ask a person's name, what they're doing, and if they feel the person is acting in a suspicious manner (refusing to give your name can be interpreted that way), to ask them to move along. And sure, the person can refuse to speak, but they know they're risking trouble by acting uncooperative. If you have nothing to hide, then don't hide it. If you want to go through the trouble of being tasered and arrested JUST SO you can later say "See? I didn't do anything wrong", that is beyond juvenile.

I'm kind of surprised that nobody has been able to figure out if this was a public area or not. I know someone earlier in the thread said they live in the area; can't someone definitively say if the Skyway is completely public or does it have private sections?

 

[stamperben]

Maybe, just maybe a person will get fed up with having to justify themselves; who they are, why they might be in a certain place, what their business is. If through a lifetime of putting up with this maybe, just maybe that person might not want to be accosted by a rent-a-cop, or even a member of the police department, ESPECIALLY when they KNOW THEIR RIGHTS GIVEN TO THEM UNDER THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! Amazing to see these so-called Constitutionalists here spout on about what their rights are but yet will not yield to the fact that this man not only KNEW his rights, but implemented them in action.

 

[blueapplepaste]

And herein lies the problem, police officers making illegal demands and then arresting the citizen for nothing. And for all the Tea Party talk about government intrusion and abuse, they are quite mum on the subject when it involves black people. Suddenly they demand complete submission to authority regardless of the justification (or lack thereof).

One of the many reasons I can't take the Tea Party seriously. Many that have openly expressed disdain towards the government intrusion have screamed about the protestors in Ferguson getting what they deserved (ironic since they claim to be so pro-Constitution, apparently some can't exercise their first amendment rights) or going out of their way to defend police abuse of powers.

These are the same people who don't trust the government with a dime of their money, yet trust them wholeheartedly when it comes to the government locking people up (eg Gitmo) or shooting unarmed kids (eg Ferguson).

 

[Inkachu]

Having someone ask your name is being "accosted"?

Only if you go through life thinking that everyone is out to get you.

FTR I know that a person has the right to be silent and not answer questions. My point is that if you have nothing to hide and you aren't viewing anyone with a badge as "the enemy", then you won't have a stank attitude about every interaction and feel that you have to "stick it to them" by being resistant and uncooperative. It's one thing exercise your rights, it's another thing to be a prick just because you have the right to be one, and then whine when negativity results.

 

[bhsmte]

A security guard doesn't have the authority to ask who a person is or what their business is in the building? A security guard definitely has the authority to ask a person's name, what they're doing, and if they feel the person is acting in a suspicious manner (refusing to give your name can be interpreted that way), to ask them to move along. And sure, the person can refuse to speak, but they know they're risking trouble by acting uncooperative. If you have nothing to hide, then don't hide it. If you want to go through the trouble of being tasered and arrested JUST SO you can later say "See? I didn't do anything wrong", that is beyond juvenile.

I'm kind of surprised that nobody has been able to figure out if this was a public area or not. I know someone earlier in the thread said they live in the area; can't someone definitively say if the Skyway is completely public or does it have private sections?

Read the thread about whether this was a public place or not.

And, a security guard who works for a business in the area, has zero authority, to ask someone to leave sitting in a public area, none, nada, zilcho.

That would be the same as you going to an indoor mall and the security guard comes outside the store they work at, to tell you to leave the bench you are sitting on in the public area of the mall.

If indeed, this guy was sitting in a public area, he should have been allowed to sit and the cops should not have been called.

 

[SummerMadness]

A security guard doesn't have the authority to ask who a person is or what their business is in the building?

He's sitting in the public easement and he informed the security guard about why he was sitting there.

A security guard definitely has the authority to ask a person's name, what they're doing, and if they feel the person is acting in a suspicious manner (refusing to give your name can be interpreted that way), to ask them to move along. And sure, the person can refuse to speak, but they know they're risking trouble by acting uncooperative.

That's not what happened. He finished a late shift and was waiting there for his kids to arrive at daycare so he could pick them up. He sat there and the security guard posted there did nothing because it's not a problem. Another security guard came by and saw him sitting there and then told him it was an employee only area. Mr. Lollie replied that he has a right to sit there because there is no sign posted saying that he cannot sit there (other businesses have seating with signage, this is required by law, this business does not, in fact the website invites people to use the space).

If you have nothing to hide, then don't hide it. If you want to go through the trouble of being tasered and arrested JUST SO you can later say "See? I didn't do anything wrong", that is beyond juvenile.

That's a poor grasp of your rights. Even if I have nothing to hide, I am not volunteering information to law enforcement authorities, see the Fifth Amendment. The police were wrong in this matter and he was under no obligation to allow a police officer to unjustifiably detain him.

I'm kind of surprised that nobody has been able to figure out if this was a public area or not. I know someone earlier in the thread said they live in the area; can't someone definitively say if the Skyway is completely public or does it have private sections?

CaDan has provided more than enough information here that the seating area is open to the public. Witnesses for Mr. Lollie testify to this space being public and another person has even gone there, sat there and received no such request to move:

There are laws governing signage, which First National did not have at the time of the incident and still does not have signage. Meanwhile, other establishments have signage as per law.

"I Am Not Your Brother" – St. Paul Cops Allegedly Taser and Arrest Black Male for Sitting in Public Space (Video) | streets.mn

Alex Cecchini August 29, 2014 at 4:06 pm wrote:

There are many lobbies/loitering areas in the skyway that DO have signs denoting the space for building tenants only (or some language that allows patrons of businesses like restaurants/coffee chops/etc nearby). Securian and Golden Rule buildings both have these areas. First National has no such signage.

I'm quite confident this is about race. I spent some time this morning and walked over to the building. I sat right down in the seats, facing the security desk, and didn't move for over 10 minutes. The guards never once looked nervous or approached me asking me to move along. I’m white, and I have very little doubt that played into it.​

They tried to get him to plead guilty, Mr. Lollie refused. Then they dropped the charges because they knew they would lose. The law is firmly on Mr. Lollie's side.

 

[Inkachu]

Security guards have the authority to question and detain people; why would they not have the authority to ask someone to leave an area?

Is this something that varies from state to state, or city to city? Does the authority granted a security guard depend on where he works? I don't know - does someone else know?

 

[SummerMadness]

Security guards have the authority to question and detain people; why would they not have the authority to ask someone to leave an area?

Is this something that varies from state to state, or city to city? Does the authority granted a security guard depend on where he works? I don't know - does someone else know?

Read the thread before asking ignorant questions.

 

[Inkachu]

He's sitting in the public easement and he informed the security guard about why he was sitting there.

So, the police reports were falsified? Because both the security guard and police officers stated he refused to answer when questioned repeatedly over the course of several minutes. It wasn't until he was up and walking and was confronted by the additional officers that he started talking. He immediately informed the guard about why he was there? Again, I'm going by the police reports, that's all I've seen so far about this story.

 

[bhsmte]

Security guards have the authority to question and detain people; why would they not have the authority to ask someone to leave an area?

Is this something that varies from state to state, or city to city? Does the authority granted a security guard depend on where he works? I don't know - does someone else know?

A security guard has a right to keep his place of business secure, that is what they are hired for.

Those rights, would not extend to going outside the place of business, to tell someone to leave a public area.

Don't see why this is so hard to grasp.