Sinning

[Bible Highlighter]

I've had a think about this and can now see where I think the question is wrong.

You ask whether "a believer can die in one or two unrepentant sins (like lying or lusting after a woman) and still be saved as long as they generally lived a holy life? Yes, or no?"; and this indicates a certain way of thinking about salvation that I do not believe is correct.

Basically, you are thinking about the Gospel as if all of those who are saved by it are like sheep in a fenced paddock. As long as the sheep stay inside the fence they will be saved but if they jump over the fence they are fair game for the wolf.

Now if this is true, I gave you an answer to your question and indicated that the outcome would be according to the grace and mercy of the Shepherd who has indicated that He will leave His 99 safe sheep to find the 1 missing one and bring it back to Him.
So this is a possibility.

But I don't think that this is true. I think the right way to look at the Gospel is where Jesus is the wellspring of Life, He is the source of all things, the narrow gate. His command is not a fence around us, rather it points towards His Father who is Love itself.

In this respect the moral landscape does not have fences, rather our status, as one who is saved, is determined by our orientation and proximity of our heart to the well that gives life.

An Australian man once used this imagery with reference to Cattle in the outback where there are no fences, rather the safety of cattle is determined by their relationship to the well.

In this respect we can see that salvation is not determined by whether we break through the fence at a certain point, or not, but by the relationship to the moral perfection that is the person of Christ Jesus. If our hearts are turned towards Him and thereby are partakers in His Spirit, then we belong to Him. But if our heart is turned away (no matter how perfectly we have kept the commandments) then we do not.

So you should be able to see that if you asked the question as to what would cause a believer to loose their salvation I would have replied that this is possible if we turn away from Christ Our Lord, and that this may or may not be reflected in outward moral behaviour.

But in my view the question you ask does not reflect the gospel.

Nowhere am I suggesting in my question that we are saved without Christ's mercy, sacrifice, and resurrection. It is how we are initially and ultimately saved. My question was in regards to the process of Sanctification.

So, as for my question on Sanctification: Christ is the source of a person's eternal life (See 1 John 5:12). A person can only live a holy life by Christ abiding in them. Christ does the good work within a believer. It is the proof in the pudding that Christ lives in them. A believer cannot take all the credit for the good works the Lord does in their life. Jesus said, without me, you can do nothing. It's also why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus. My point was to see if you believe that unrepentant sin (Which BTW ~ We repent of our sins to Jesus so as to be saved by His mercy and grace) was a means of turning God's grace into a doctrine for immorality on some level (of which we see a warning given to us in Jude 1:4). For it only took one sin to separate God from man in the Garden of Eden with Adam's one time disobedience. The devil said to Eve, "Yea, ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4). It is odd, that this very lie is being pushed today under the name "Eternal Security." You can disobey God, and not die. That is the lie the devil gave Eve. Yet, others are buying into it big time. They do not want to look at verses like "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).

A person cannot focus on Christ as their Savior and say they are truly loving Him if they are also breaking His Commandments. Yes, we have to believe Jesus is our Savior. That is the first step, but we also have to confess and forsake sin in this life, too. If not, then we are following another Jesus.

Let me ask you another question.
Do you think all babies who die are saved by Christ's sacrifice?
I believe they are.
So if this is the case, then what separates a baby from Christ when they grow up?
Certainly it is sin that separates them.

Oh, and the one sheep that went astray and was lost.... was lost.
Jesus was seeking to bring them back; But that does not mean Jesus is going to force that sheep back into the fold. If the sheep jumped off a cliff or got devoured by a lion, there is nothing more he could do.

Remember, Jesus's sheep are those who FOLLOW Him according to John 10.

So I will ask the question in a different way.

Do you think it is possible for a believer who believes in Jesus as their Savior and who believes the gospel (and who generally lived a holy life) to be able to walk away from Christ and die in one or two unrepentant sins (like lying or lusting after a woman) and still be saved? Yes, or no?
In other words, do you believe a saint has to confess sin so as to be forgiven of sin as 1 John 1:9 says? Or do you believe that 1 John 1:9 is not dealing with salvation? Do you believe 1 John 1:7 is talking about living righteously by Christ's power working in them?

...

 

[Anguspure]

Let me ask you another question.
Do you think all babies who die are saved by Christ's sacrifice?
I believe they are.

I would like to think so, however the only real Biblical references I can find on the subject are:
For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. (1 Corinthians 7);
and: But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. (Luke 18), neither of which make a direct statement about the righteousness of all children.
Nevertheless I would like to believe, and think that this is inline with the mercy and grace of Our Lord, that until any person looses their innocence before Him then the sacrifice of Christ covers.

So if this is the case, then what separates a baby from Christ when they grow up?
Certainly it is sin that separates them.

A deliberate act of will to sin reflects the true nature of the heart.
A heart that has lost its faith in God may for a while dwell in flesh that has committed no evil act.
A repentant heart born of the Spirit may dwell in sinful flesh that up until the present time has not been brought to heel.
Every person comes from a different place in the moral landscape and the journey to perfection in Christ will reflect the place that the person is at now.
Not all of us are born the same and we do not grow the same.

Oh, and the one sheep that went astray and was lost.... was lost.
Jesus was seeking to bring them back; But that does not mean Jesus is going to force that sheep back into the fold. If the sheep jumped off a cliff or got devoured by a lion, there is nothing more he could do.
Remember, Jesus's sheep are those who FOLLOW Him according to John 10.

Have you ever done first aid or rescued a person? Many times they are so delusional and in pain that their reaction to your attempts at first aid or rescue are very strongly resisted. Nevertheless if you were to give up no one, including the casualty would thank you.
I think our Lord faces this sort of thing daily and expects those of us who follow and serve Him, in the same way, to display a bit more insight, patience and mercy.

So I will ask the question in a different way.

Do you think it is possible for a believer who believes in Jesus as their Savior and who believes the gospel (and who generally lived a holy life) to be able to walk away from Christ and die in one or two unrepentant sins (like lying or lusting after a woman) and still be saved? Yes, or no?
In other words, do you believe a saint has to confess sin so as to be forgiven of sin as 1 John 1:9 says? Or do you believe that 1 John 1:9 is not dealing with salvation? Do you believe 1 John 1:7 is talking about living righteously by Christ's power working in them?

...

I know its often difficult to entertain new ideas but that is no excuse to ask the same question again.

So once again it is a question of the orientation of the heart. The act of sin you refer to may well be a reflection of the inward state of the heart but they may also be the act of a recalcitrant and sinful flesh that will indeed face death as promised. It is the Lord who knows and it is the Lord who will judge.

To those who display an outward appearance of righteousness while their hearts are turned away from Him, Jesus says:
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. (Matthew 23)

Whereas to the poor in spirit, those who recognise their moral poverty and corruption without Him he proclaims:
Blessed are the poor in spirit,

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn,

for they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,

for they will inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,

for they will be filled.

Blessed are the merciful,

for they will be shown mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart,

for they will see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,

for they will be called children of God.

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matthew 5)

 

[surrender1]

Whats the point in not sinning if Jesus forgives everything ?

It harms us when we harm others.