Singles room

[DragonFox91]

Any relationship is a form of exchange. Its neither just "what I can get" nor "what I can give". Both must be present for long term and for it to work it must be at least roughly of the same value for both sides (the more value you get, the more willing you are to continue).

And the net value of exchange for an individual must be also higher than just doing nothing (an important reality some people forget - energy, time etc is not free).

For example, lets say a time is worth for me 100 units, I give to some relationship 30 units, I get 50 units back, so I am in 20 units plus. Good deal. But if it costs me 100 units in time/energy/health/whatever, no, its not sustainable.

So, be wise and "calculate" if marriage is actually worth it. Its not something you can exit easily and without serious consequences.

Right, but the value of exchange or difficulty in exchanging value won't always be consistent.

Sounds like communication & honesty is key.

 

[TheLastGeek]

That sounds nice hypothetically (tons of good women in the world etc), but to be realistic, we do not know any.

And even if she is good morally, spiritually, physically, does she bring something to the table men appreciate/need? Or just skills that are irrelevant or even unattractive? One can be "good", but still useless for a marriage.

You don't know ONE good woman in all of your acquaintances in life? Not one, single good woman in your family? Your circle of friends? Your church? Your job? Are you counting the married women here as well? Because a woman does not cease to be "good" simply because she is no longer single. And every one of those good, married women was once a good, single woman. Which means there are other good, single women out there. Pessimism of this magnitude is incredibly unattractive.

 

[TheLastGeek]

"she will cook from time to time"

Is this your definition of marriage?

 

[TheLastGeek]

Its not a belief, its several decades of experience both mine and of plenty of other men. Remember, its not like saying "oh I know some good women, they are just not single or do not want me". We literally do not know any good women we would marry (in their current state, they were maybe looking good in 18-20, but in their 30 you see you dodged a bullet).


Not sure what you mean, specifically.

Wow, so a 31 year old woman is just old and useless and repulsive. Okay.

 

[LoveDivine]

Wow, so a 31 year old woman is just old and useless and repulsive. Okay.

Haha. I was thinking the same. I deleted my last response, because I realized I have been misunderstanding all along. I kept thinking good woman meant Godly and stable woman. My contributions to this thread all seem very silly now.

When I realized that good meant eternally young and beautiful, I felt a bit foolish for trying to have a serious discussion. I am noticing the pointlessness of that in several of these threads.

 

[angelsaroundme]

Being good in one area doesn't necessairily mean good in another area. A good parent isn't always going to be a good partner. If your emotional needs are largely fulfilled by your child, you may be less likely to really invest your heart in a committed romantic relationship.

You could extend this to being a great religious person as well. Someone who gets a lot of support from God may not feel as strong a need to develop a relationship elsewhere. I'm sure people probably mean things like "won't cheat on you", "responsible with money", "goes to church" etc. when they say a great religious or Godly person. But it's also a factor that they may have values or rules that even you would find extreme.

Arguing about superficiality is pointless to me. There are many women who are waiting for a guy who looks like whatever celebrity, or has certain physical traits, and men who are the same way. Either people will find someone that looks how they want, or they will find someone who wins them over with other qualities, or they won't.

 

[trophy33]

Right, but the value of exchange or difficulty in exchanging value won't always be consistent.

Sounds like communication & honesty is key.

Yes, it fluctuates over time. For example, people in 20's are driven mostly by looks. Do they realize, when getting married, that this look will last 5 years (with a standard American lifestyle)? What will they be left with, then? Will it be worth it? 9/10 of Americans have some kind of metabolic problem and the western Europe is not much better, with some exceptions.

Also, behavior or satisfaction with some things change in months or few years. What was "OK" in the beginning can be a reason for divorce in few years.

 

[trophy33]

You don't know ONE good woman in all of your acquaintances in life? Not one, single good woman in your family? Your circle of friends? Your church? Your job? Are you counting the married women here as well? Because a woman does not cease to be "good" simply because she is no longer single. And every one of those good, married women was once a good, single woman. Which means there are other good, single women out there.

Well, I do not care about married women (I do not want a divorced woman), but even if I count them before they were married, then no, I do not know of any that would make my life easier than more complicated in the long run - for life.

I know some women that have "good" marriages, "so-so" marriages etc. But I do not see it worthy of loosing freedom, time, energy, peace, finances etc. The net value simply is not worth it.

If I want to achieve some high levels in various areas of life, a single life is almost a must. If somebody really wants children, then this is something I see of being a real reason for marriage. The rest - not so much.

Pessimism of this magnitude is incredibly unattractive.

1. Its realism
2. I do not care if truth is attractive to women or not (but I have never had problems finding a relationship). I do not change my exercise, diet, opinions or behavior because of preferences of some anonymous crowd called "women". Because I am content with being single, I am free of such manipulations.

 

[trophy33]

Is this your definition of marriage?

No, the context of the quotation you used was not the definition of marriage.

 

[trophy33]

Wow, so a 31 year old woman is just old and useless and repulsive. Okay.

Well, you try to generalize that to "a" woman. Generally, women age very quickly, visibly faster than men, but I would not put any specific number to that or say "all". "Old, useless and repulsive" are your words, I said "dodged a bullet".

The context you took my quote from was about the risk - we do not know if a good woman in 20 will be still good in 30. And considering current life style and diet, this risk is very high and can be seen by almost anybody who knows enough of women for a longer period of time.

 

[DragonFox91]

Haha. I was thinking the same. I deleted my last response, because I realized I have been misunderstanding all along. I kept thinking good woman meant Godly and stable woman. My contributions to this thread all seem very silly now.

When I realized that good meant eternally young and beautiful, I felt a bit foolish for trying to have a serious discussion. I am noticing the pointlessness of that in several of these threads.

I agree. I don't think he understands the marriage concept, nor the concept of love & self-sacrifice, nor really even the concept of non-marital relationships, at all. I am glad he has the attitude he does. There's enough singles struggling with the want as it is.

I had definitely understood 'good women' to include good married women.

& he did say 'look good 18-20' before 'dodged a bullet'.

 

[LoveDivine]

I agree. I don't think he understands the marriage concept, nor the concept of love & self-sacrifice, nor really even the concept of non-marital relationships, at all. I am glad he has the attitude he does. There's enough singles struggling with the want as it is.

I had definitely understood 'good women' to include good married women.

& he did say 'look good 18-20' before 'dodged a bullet'.

Some men just have very high and unrealistic beauty standards for women. Nothing new about that, haha. Women aren't allowed to age. Personally, I don't care. Guys are entitled to their preferences. I just find it silly to think that women only bring value to a marriage or a man's life if they are young and beautiful. If that is the criteria for "good" I actually know of many women who fit that description. I know lots of women who work out, eat healthy, get made up, dress well, and look great. Women who are older even. If anything women can age better , because we have more " tricks'" and cosmetic procedures to take advantage of. Poor guys basically just have the gym lol.

Anyway, there is something nice I think about growing old with someone. You have weathered the storms of life together. It's a stronger bond than even the early years of happiness when presumably both spouses are at their physical peak.

 

[DragonFox91]

Some men just have very high and unrealistic beauty standards for women. Nothing new about that, haha. Women aren't allowed to age. Personally, I don't care. Guys are entitled to their preferences. I just find it silly to think that women only bring value to a marriage or a man's life if they are young and beautiful. If that is the criteria for "good" I actually know of many women who fit that description. I know lots of women who work out, eat healthy, get made up, dress well, and look great. Women who are older even. If anything women can age better , because we have more " tricks'" and cosmetic procedures to take advantage of. Poor guys basically just have the gym lol.

I know right, it's not fair

Anyway, there is something nice I think about growing old with someone. You have weathered the storms of life together. It's a stronger bond than even the early years of happiness when presumably both spouses are at their physical peak.

Yes, but

1: Singles who have grown old have weathered the storms as well & more than likely God gave them other bonds to weather the storm w/

 

[Citanul]

Women who are older even.

Because I'm now in my 40s, it's been a long time since I considered dating anyone under the age of 30, but as I've grown older I've consistently encountered attractive women my age. Yes, they're going to show signs of aging that you wouldn't see on 18-20 year olds, but not in a way that detracts from their appearance (unless they're smokers as that can definitely age someone). So my personal experience is that it's a myth that women start to look worse as they get older. Different maybe, but not worse.

 

[DragonFox91]

Because I'm now in my 40s, it's been a long time since I considered dating anyone under the age of 30, but as I've grown older I've consistently encountered attractive women my age. Yes, they're going to show signs of aging that you wouldn't see on 18-20 year olds, but not in a way that detracts from their appearance (unless they're smokers as that can definitely age someone). So my personal experience is that it's a myth that women start to look worse as they get older. Different maybe, but not worse.

We romantics will probably always find something pretty in aging women, b/c we age too

 

[MehGuy]

I know right, it's not fair


Yes, but

1: Singles who have grown old have weathered the storms as well & more than likely God gave them other bonds to weather the storm w/

Well, men do have thicker skin on the face that is less prone to wrinkles compared to women. Especially around the facial hair area. Rough skin aged skin goes better on masculine skin compared to feminine skin.

I look around and don't see too many women aging well. More just women with a lot of caked up makeup. Not to mention men's attraction to you ger women goes deeper psychologically than just looks.

 

[trophy33]

I agree. I don't think he understands the marriage concept, nor the concept of love & self-sacrifice, nor really even the concept of non-marital relationships, at all. I am glad he has the attitude he does. There's enough singles struggling with the want as it is.

I had definitely understood 'good women' to include good married women.

& he did say 'look good 18-20' before 'dodged a bullet'.

You are just catching the wind, you present some vague ideas without any relationship experience, but nothing really usable and sustainable for real daily life.

And you are the one who is constantly complaining about being unhappy. So, instead of judging the views of others, you should correct yours.

 

[DragonFox91]

You are just catching the wind, you present some vague ideas without any relationship experience, but nothing really usable and sustainable for real daily life.

And you are the one who is constantly complaining about being unhappy. So, instead of judging the views of others, you should correct yours.

I said I'm glad you have the attitude you do. I don't think you should put down other people's dreams. That is wrong.

 

[trophy33]

Well, men do have thicker skin on the face that is less prone to wrinkles compared to women. Especially around the facial hair area. Rough skin aged skin goes better on masculine skin compared to feminine skin.

I look around and don't see too many women aging well. More just women with a lot of caked up makeup. Not to mention men's attraction to you ger women goes deeper psychologically than just looks.

Sure, they age quickly regarding skin and facial features, also regarding fertility and other biological things.

But thats something they cannot influence too much, so its not their guilt, its just something we and they must take into consideration (is it really better for them to wait till 30's or even 40's and then try to settle down? Many of them are surprised they somehow became invisible to men, not like in their 20's)

A totally different issue is the epidemic of obesity, frequent and silly tattoos, drinking, partying, smoking, promiscuity. This is their responsibility and its very rapidly taking its toll on their looks. And its a really significant difference to see a woman that took care about herself and a woman who did not.

But physical properties like health and looks are just one of many things needed for marriage. We can meet a beautiful woman who has a bad character or simply brings nothing to the table that is worthy the life-long bondage.

 

[trophy33]

I said I'm glad you have the attitude you do. I don't think you should put down other people's dreams. That is wrong.

You said something I do not understand the concept of marriage, relationships and some other things, this is what I reacted to.

You can have any dream you want, but if you are publicly repeating you are unhappy, we can respond to that with our views. Thats the reason you make your problems public, I guess. To get other people insight.