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Featured Since when did freedom of Christian religion become freedom of religion?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Neostarwcc, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    I disagree with Americans leaving the church of England betraying their King who only charged a little taxes on tea and tried to gain independence from England when if they had waited just 150 years or so they would have had their freedom from the royal monarchy without any bloodshed. I think its foolish But that isn't really 100% of what this topic is about. What its about is after Americans gained their freedom from England and started to form their own government our forefathers wanted to make part of the constitution freedom of Christian religion. Why was it later changed over the years to freedom of all religions? Which president started that? It gets worse though eventually even England is going to turn its back on God and have freedom of all religions as well. Its true. Prince Charles has vowed when he takes the English throne that he will make the church of England freedom of religion as well instead of preserving the protestant Anglican church which has existed since the 1500s. Despite the Royal monarchy having to take a vow to preserve Christian religion in England since well... The beginning. So even England an empire that has been purely comprised of Christians for over 1,500 + years now is turning away from God. Why?

    Okay fine you can freely be whatever religion you want to be in England now and still not be considered a traitor to your country. But the Church of England? Really? Since when has the entire world turned its back on God? It's not right! I mean Charles still is a Christian and a member of the church of England you have to be to be a monarch in England but he wants freedom of religion in the church of England.

    Sorry forgot the source. Source:

    Church of England should be stripped from Prince Charles' coronation vows, report suggests
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
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  2. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    It looks more like a step towards disestablishment, (separation of church and state) than a step towards "turning its back on God," from what I can make out about it.
     
  3. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Active Member Supporter

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    God knows if Charles is a Christian. He has some beliefs that make me doubt it. The English have been turning away in droves for decades. Leadership of the Church of England has been denying that the Bible is the Word of God, that Lord Jesus was born of a Virgin and that He physically rose from the dead. It varies depending on who the Archbishop is at any time. Some Anglican churches retain the fundamentals of the faith. Not nearly enough. England's elites sold their souls to Islam a long time ago. How can they then resist the steady flow of Muslims into the country? Islam and Christianity are incompatible but the ruling class does not care. Just as long as the money keeps rolling in.

    Yes, I agree that the USA took a very wrong turn by rejecting British authority. The 4th of July should be a day of mourning, not rejoicing.
     
  4. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    Well maybe Prince Charles wants the approval of his subjects but he should be loyal to God and keeping the church pure first before seeking approval from atheists and members of other religions who live in England. But Christ's return is coming soon and this shouldn't come as a surprise to me as the world becomes more and more evil.

    It just kind of shocked me that a member of the royal family said that. Maybe when Prince William becomes king things will change. He's pretty loyal to the church of England and to Christ. At least he gives off that impression.
     
  5. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    He claims to be Christian but maybe he's only saying he's a Christian because he'd lose his right to become king if he didnt claim to follow the Church of England.

    I wasn't aware that the Anglican church changed over the years I'm not English. That's pretty sad especially when England has been loyal to Christ and the doctrine of Christ since the beginning.

    Queen Elizabeth was my Queen for the first seven years of my life because I was born in Canada but all of a sudden I'm supposed to not be loyal to my Queen anymore (who does a fantastic job preserving the church in my opinion. But then again I could be wrong if its having difficulties and straying away from God like you say) Anyway its stupid that just because my family switched countries that I'm supposed to forget about the royal family and be loyal to the president. But we've only had one semi good president since I moved here (Clinton). He despite the whole Monika Lewinsky incident was a pretty good president.
     
  6. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    I don't necessarily see disestablishment as disloyalty to God. Establishment has been problematic for a long time, and it could be argued that disestablishment actually makes it easier to keep the church "pure."
     
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  7. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I'm not aware of anyone in the US that regrets our decision. We elect nearly all of our representatives democratically and (until recently) a majority have been satisfied with the results.
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    James Madison thought the Constitution gave too much power to the Federal Government and so drafted the Bill of rights designed to ensure more rights for individuals. The First Amendment spoke to the freedom of religious participation. This resulted in more states including Virginia to adopt the new constitution.

    https://www.history.com/topics/united-states-constitution/first-amendment
     
  9. Heavenhome

    Heavenhome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I actually never think of Prince Charles as being Christian.
    Does he claim to be?
    I'm not talking about whether he attends church, I have always thought he was very much into the "inter-faith" movement.
     
  10. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    Well, normally in England in order to take the throne you have to make a statement of faith and vow to preserve the Church of England before you're coronated just like to become president you have to make a statement to the tell the truth. It's not quite the same though because a majority of the Presidents have lied during their coronation and several times when they were in office. Clinton was one example. If you refuse to make that statement than you cannot become King/Queen and the next person in line will become King/Queen. As far as I'm aware no royal monarch has lost their reign due to a lack of faith. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II had to make a statement of faith back in the 50's and every reigning monarch before her since the Church of England was founded by King Henry VIII in 1534. Before that England was Catholic and I think the reigning monarch had to make a vow to uphold Catholicism in England before that but I'm not 100% sure. It would make sense because England has been Christian for literally forever.

    You have had to be Christian and loyal to Christ in order to be a member of the Royal Family since the beginning of England. But then again before in England you had to be Christian if you were going to live in England even or you would have been considered a traitor to your country and put to death. So you were kind of forced to believe whether or not you really had faith in Christ or not.

    That changed in England within the last few centuries or so but forgive me, I don't know when. You can freely be whatever religion you want to be now and live in England without fear of being put to death. But in order to be a member of the Church of England you have to convert to be Anglican Protestant. You cannot pick your own Christian religion.

    They're saying that Charles is trying to change that when he takes the throne because of many statements made by him. So who knows he could only be a Christian on paper so that he can take the throne. But if he isn't loyal to Christ he would be the first member of the royal family to not be.

    Even King Edward VIII who gave up the throne to be with a divorcee in the early 1900's (The only King in history to do so) was loyal to Christ. I mean, I understand the world is changing so that the return of Christ can draw closer and closer but It just saddens me that a country that's kept the faith for forever isn't keeping the faith anymore. Do I think that you should be forced to be Christian or be put to death? Not really, but I might have if I lived in England at the time. People have changed in thoughts and opinions over the centuries. I probably would have considered it being loyal to my King who was put there on the throne by God. No different than the Israelites being loyal to all of their Kings ...etc.

    It's considered an injustice today but at the time they probably didn't think so. I'm sure the people who were put to death thought it was an injustice but a majority of England at the time probably did not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  11. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    Thank you they glossed over that in history class when I was a kid because it's apparently a part of American history that Americans want to forget. I mean, had freedom of Christian religion actually been established here in America I probably wouldn't be complaining about this country and I probably would like and be proud to say I live here. Had the president who takes an oath every 4 years to tell the truth actually meant it and not lie to the American people every 3 seconds. I probably would be proud to be an American. I mean I guess I can see why it was changed a little bit. You cannot force a person to be Christian and they have to come to Christ on their own. That's the thought and opinion of the world today. But almost no American actually upholds the freedom of Religion that this country apparently has though. Christians are not allowed to quote the Bible without being attacked and ostracized. Muslims are not allowed to quote the Quran and are considered terrorists. The Jews that live in this country are hated and are barely allowed to practice their faith. Just about the only religious people in this country that are not attacked are the Buddhists.

    So it's like... freedom of religion my butt. I should be able to freely quote the Bible without being attacked and to declare my faith without being ostracized and attacked and possibly killed and Christians should be more tolerant and accepting of Atheism and other religions since God allows a person to have free will so Christians should understand that. Yes, we care about them and want to help them see the light but in the end it is their choice to make.
     
  12. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    Perhaps. I mean maybe in today's ever declining age an English person should be allowed to practice any religion they want. I mean, they can freely live in England without being Christian and don't have to fear being put to death now. So why not be able to join the Church of England? I see the point you're trying to make. I don't see how it can preserve the purity of the church though. It would make English people be farther away from Christ wouldn't it? Can you explain?

    Anyway, I just view it as kind of sad. England was a country clearly preserved and blessed by God for over 1,500 years and now it's like because of one king that's going to change. But like I said maybe Prince William when he takes the throne will preserve the church. Who knows. It's kind of like when we get a new president and he changes a particular law or bill that isn't constitutional. But I'm not English or a member of the Church of England so I don't know how a majority of the English people feel about this. I know many Christians don't see it as right on the internet.
     
  13. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Violence has it's own set of laws and rules.

    But if you have the freedom to quote scripture, then others
    also get the freedom to slam you for insulting them.
    The legal freedom works the same for your detractors as it does you.

    What you are thinking of is "in the old days" there were enough Christians
    around you that you could preach without feedback. That's no longer the case.
     
  14. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Active Member Supporter

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    Oh, I am well aware of how seriously Americans take your independence and how proud you are of your nation. I'm also well aware of the history of the USA, which is chequered to say the least. I believe (and I can't be proven wrong - J/K) that America's history would have been different, and better, if the change of status from colony to independence had been done without a revolutionary war. God's principle is to pray for those in authority, not rebel against them. The people of Israel found out the hard way that God's principles are better followed than not. Rome was too big to mess with. Israel was crushed with utter ruthlessness. Has there been a violent revolution that has resulted in a better society? Not too many. I am greatly concerned about the rise of China. I could see America becoming insular again and leaving the rest of the world to resolve the issue. That would be somewhat unfair, as the USA was one of the driving forces to bring China into the modern world. Having said that, God is in control and He gets the last laugh.
     
  15. Albion

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    I'm thinking that this is supposed to be some kind of joke.
     
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  16. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Active Member Supporter

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    We are plainly in the last days. It was once possible to have reasoned discussion of issues and have an "agree to disagree" approach. Not any more. It's more like 2 Timothy 3. Paul's letter reads like today's news. Still, compared to most countries, America is a shining light of tolerance. Which shows you how far the world has regressed.
     
  17. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    No I meant it as serious. Which part sounds like a joke? I'd be massively interested to get an Anglican's opinion on the subject.
     
  18. Albion

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    1. The American Revolution was not about the tea tax.
    2. Why shouldn't the people who felt oppressed in the 1770s just sit tight in the knowledge (?) that in 150 years, you said, things would be better? LOL
    3. Most Americans did not belong to the Anglican church and this wasn't much of a factor leading to rebellion in any case.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  19. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    If we're not in the last days the last days are becoming closer and closer as the world becomes more and more evil and turns away from God. Once Christian nations are turning away from Jesus, there's a mass shooting or a bombing almost everyday, Earthquakes and natural disasters are becoming more and more frequent. Just many, many signs that the kingdom of God is coming. Who knows maybe we'll never have to experience death with the way the world is going.

    You can try to put a timing on Jesus's return and be completely wrong but it is soon. But then again Jesus said it as soon over 2,000 years ago. So it could be that his return isn't as close as we think. Only God knows.
     
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    All I'm saying is that nobody anywhere seems to agree with you.
    But don't let that stop you.
     
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