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LoveGodsWord

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He Won't. It's Over.
Jesus Put away Sin. (Hebrews 9:26)

Sin is no longer the measuring stick by which we are Judged. (Romans 5:13)

Today, we are either:
"In Adam", already condemned, regardless of whether we sin or not.

OR

We are:
"In Christ", saved even though we sin.

Sin has absolutely nothing to do with how we are judged.

In fact, it's ONLY Sinners that get saved.

According to the scriptures, no one is saved from sin so we are now free to continue to practice sin. Salvation is from sin not to be made free to continue to sin according to the scriptures (see John 8:31-36; 1 John 3:6-10; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 2:1-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14). According to the scriptures in times of ignorance God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. If God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we then choose to reject God's Word in order to continue in a life of known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to the judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-31. Sin of course is defined in the new covenant scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following what God's Word says *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Romans 14:23; Matthew 7:21-23.

Take Care.
 
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Beanieboy

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Sin...

Might be taking a very grave risk or chance with your eternal life or soul, or be gambling with it, or playing Russian roulette with it, rolling the dice, or be playing with fire, etc, "maybe", etc, but all of us are also always doing this also, because none of us are sinlessly perfect, etc, and each time we sin we do this... I don't know how God is going to judge you, or me, or whomever, but messing around with any kind of sin could be taking a grave risk, possibly, etc...? I say "maybe" and "possibly", etc, because I don't know how God will judge you, or me or we or you or us, etc, but I just know that He will judge you/me/we/you/us... Sin also comes with consequences in this life, and whether or not those will carry over into or onto the next life, I do not know, because I don't know how God is going to judge you, most especially eternally, etc, but they (sin and sinning in this life) make for a miserable life in this life in the meantime, most of the time, etc...

But none of us knows how God is going to judge, only that He is going to, etc, He could hold one thing against one person, and not with another person, and vice-versa, and with more or less or different things, etc, and we don't know which one is which, not most especially eternally anyway, so I say it could be a gamble, or a risk, etc, sin might possibly be maybe, etc...

God Bless!

Christ used a parable of the sheep and the goats. They were divided by those, the sheep, who loved their neighbor as themselves, ie fed the hungry, clothed the naked, cared for the sick, etc. Whenever they helped another, they did the same to Christ. The goats he said he did not know because they did not show love toward their neighbor, thus, showed no love to God. They argue that they cast out demons and performed miacles in his name, but as 1 Corinthians 13 begins, you could speak in tongues of men and angels, have faith to move mountains, perform miracles, but without love, we are nothing, and useless to God.


I point this out because Christ doesn't judge them by what sins they have committed, and rattle them off. He judges them by the fruit of the Spirit.

Both the sheep and the goats don't understand when Christ says they have helped or denied him, so we can infer that the sheep didn't offer food to the hungry thinking it would earn them a golden ticket to heaven. They offered food because they had love in their heart, felt compassion, and it had become their nature.

The goats, by contrast, were like the Pharisees, putting on a show to advertise their holiness, such as praying publicly, because it made them seen as holy in the eyes of the community, gave them places of honor at the table. The Pharisees chided Jesus because he was sitting with "the sinners," people the Pharisees wouldn't even acknowledge. Christ even illustrates how offensive God sees the Pharisee in a parable where he congratulates himself for being so holy more holy than the tax collector, who humbled himself before God.

So, the problem I have with those who are focused on sin, is that they rarely focus on their own, but instead, the sins of others. Often, the most vocal will have a tree trunk growing out of their eye, a grave sin they refuse to acknowledge because they enjoy thinking themselves morally superior, believing the world is "like in the days of Noah," searching for the negative, and ignoring all those who immediately offered to buy groceries and get prescriptions for elderly neighbors during Covid. Often, lies and slander is used to persuade persuade people, and say that the ends justifies the means.

An example of this is Scott Lively, saying that he wanted to go to Uganda to Share the Good News and Love of Jesus. The truth was, he used debunked facts as truth that claimed gays were a threat to society, they are a threat to your Children. He was oushing to make homosexuality illegal. The government one upped him, and made into law execution after the second offense. When he said it wasn't intention to harm anyone, if it discoutages homosexuality,shrug. A Friend of mine Is from Uganda and said it's just created an environment of violence. He told me of a Girl that came out as the lesbian. One day a man broke into their house and begin to rape her. She called for her parents, until she realized that they were cheering him on. they had let him in so that it would cure her of her lesbianism. Library has also said things in books like the pink swastika that gays were part of the Nazis not that they were persecuted. When calls on this, he rarely admits that it is true, tries to justify why he said what he did, or claims that the gay agenda He's trying to make him look bad. She refuses to admit I am on that she is bearing false witness. He also refuses to admit that he has come over and created in environment of hostility and violence.

When I discuss love being the most important focus prayer as opposed to sin, immediately someone will say something like, but it isn't loving if I don't point out your sin. Christ said that believers can help other believers with the spec that is in your eye as long as you do not have a 2 x 4 coming out of your own. understands a 2 x 4 is not a spec. Jesus is not talking about hypocrisy. He's talking about if you don't have love you have no business worrying about the minor sin of your neighbor because you have a grave seen your self. If you can imagine someone with A tree branch coming out of there I telling you they're gonna help you take out the specs and yours the biggest fear you will have is it going to poke out your eye. It's ridiculous. when I speak about love and how weird to be known for our love by all people, the response that comes back as oh they don't understand that it's love. It's Toughlove. It's like discipline a child. But it wouldn't make sense for Christ to say you were known for your buyer those but they won't recognize that it's love so then they won't know you buy your love at all. There's nothing tough about going around and criticizing other peoples weaknesses. It's not difficult as one put it to name call to discourage people from the sin because Jesus called people snakes in vipers and swine. People without Jesus can do these things. Tough love is turning the other cheek and forgiving someone. Toughlove is giving something to someone without asking anything in return it is being kind to all people, including your enemies. Tough love is looking at your own life and admitting you are not perfect and owning your own weaknesses so that you can focus on those. Toughlove is then looking at those weaknesses acknowledging them and then realizing you're not any more better or worse than anyone else we are all the same. Tough love is realizing you didn't burn your salvation. It was given through mercy. So they doesn't make you any Better than the people you call sinner. You are also a sinner, Forgiven or not. If you do not forgive others you are not forgiving. That is biblical.

I like to spend most of my day looking at the glass being half full. when an opportunity arises, I love my neighbor as myself because it is my nature. I do not have to tell people that Jesus loves them. I show them through my actions. I can't imagine going through my day thanking you, "well I'm not gonna kill anybody today. I'm not going to steal today. I'm not going to lie today." I look at it like I will stop for someone if they need help. I will tell the truth. I will humble myself before other people. I will listen to people and not judge them superficially. If I see someone who is lost, I will ask them if they need help. If someone needs to get over On the highway so they can take the exit, I will allow them to change lanes. You don't have to save the world. All that is asked is to do even the smallest of kindness is to one another, and care for one another.

I live under a new covenant. That is to love my neighbor as myself, and when I do I am loving God. I am not going to therefore tell someone that they need to live in an old covenant and pick out random purses from the old testament to condemn them. I am showing mercy. I am forgiven. The last way I am going to Thank God for his mercy is true then turn around and condemn someone else, especially for obscure verses that I pulled out of context, and use like a book of law and condemn people like a lawyer.

You say you don't know how God is going to judge each of us. Christ says by the measure you judge, so will you be judged. If you judge harshly, you will be judged harshly. If you condemn others to out them beneath you for superiority, Christ will compare his life to yours. If you show humility and mercy, so it will be shown to you.

However, I also don't have a relationship with Christ simply to have a Get out of Hell Free Card. I live Christ each day, not saving up for heaven, not searching for evil to support my pessimistic judgement of the world, beg Jesus to come soon and end it all, nor sit around, waiting for death so I can be in Heaven. I live in Heaven with God in my heart now, and as I walk down the sidewalk, remind myself that every person I see is a child of God whom He loves deeply, and allow God to demonstrate that love through me if he so chooses.
 
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Faith Unites

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I agree with a few things that something doesn't fit and we will probably not agree. :)

None of the scripture say Jesus is the Sabbath. Giving rest and the Sabbath commandment are two different things.

Let's let scripture interpret scripture.

God spoke and wrote Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

This is the 4th commandment. No where does it say Jesus is the Sabbath. It plainly tells us to Remember and keep Holy the Sabbath day. We should do our work on six days Sunday to Friday and the seventh day we rest. We rest so we can keep the Sabbath holy. It also reference to Creation where God worked six days and rested on the seventh day. He also blessed the seventh day from creation and hallowed it. God does not need rest, this is meant to be an example for us.

There are two different rests in the scripture. The seventh day Sabbath rest that is the commandment of God and the rest in Christ we receive when we obey.

Hebrews is referring to both rests. This rest is the rest we receive in Christ when we obey God's commandments.

The Israelites did not receive Christs rest because they disobeyed God's Sabbath and 4th commandment.

Hebrews 4:6 and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,

Ezekiel 20: 13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths.

I am not sure why you quoted the New Covenant Jer 31:33 this does not say Jesus is the Sabbath. God is talking here about His laws in the New Covenant now written on our hearts and mind. His laws of course include the 4th commandment and the holy day of the Lord thy God. They are written in our hearts and we obey because of our love for God John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 and in our minds so we will do them. Be doers of the Word, not just hearers. James 1:22

Jer. 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

I am not finding anything in the scriptures you posted that says Jesus is the Sabbath and we can disregard the 4th commandment that God asked for us to Remember and keep holy.
The verses illustrate the progressive revelation of Christ. As for scripture not stating it exclusively, this is nothing new. The Trinity is not explicit in the NT either. You can look at the contrast in verses like Matthew 5:27-28 and Matthew 15:11 and understand that it is not specifics that Christ is requiring, it is rebirth. Romans 8:1-4 and all of Galatians 4 further drives this point home. There is no condemnation because there is no law. The bar is much higher now, it has shifted from behavioral in the dead to divine in the living. Its not a food or a day or a ceremony, it is now Galatians 2:20
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The verses illustrate the progressive revelation of Christ. As for scripture not stating it exclusively, this is nothing new. The Trinity is not explicit in the NT either. You can look at the contrast in verses like Matthew 5:27-28 and Matthew 15:11 and understand that it is not specifics that Christ is requiring, it is rebirth. Romans 8:1-4 and all of Galatians 4 further drives this point home. There is no condemnation because there is no law. The bar is much higher now, it has shifted from behavioral in the dead to divine in the living. Its not a food or a day or a ceremony, it is now Galatians 2:20
Yes, Matthew 5 are good examples. Jesus is quoting directly from the Ten Commandments after He tells us He did not come to destroy God’s law and breaking the least of these commandments and teaching others comes with some consequences, so this includes the 4th commandment the Holy day of the Lord thy God. Again, no where in any of these scriptures you posted tells us that Jesus is our Sabbath. We should not add our own ideas to the clear written and spoken Word of our Creator. You can not obey the spirit of the law by breaking the letter and you provided two very good examples of this in scripture Jesus said murder and adultery begin in the heart, but in no way is Jesus telling us its okay to murder or commit adultery.

What these verses are saying is when we walk with Gods Spirit we obey the laws of God which is what the New Covenant is about God laws written on our hearts and minds. We no longer obey because its a commandment we obey because of our love for God that is expressed though obedience John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3.

There is no condemnation if we are obeying God’s laws. No where in the scripture that tells us there are no laws. If there were no laws, there would be no sin and if there was no sin we would not need God’s grace or a Savior because we would all be lost.

God bless
 
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There is no condemnation if we are obeying God’s laws. No where in the scripture that tells us there are no laws. If there were no laws, there would be no sin and if there was no sin we would not need God’s grace or a Savior because we would all be lost
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're a 7th day Adventist....
 
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parousia70

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According to the scriptures, no one is saved from sin so we are now free to continue to practice sin.

I'm gonna guess you mean "not" instead of "now"?

If God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we then choose to reject God's Word in order to continue in a life of known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to the judgement to come which will devour the adversaries
Individual sins have no bearing upon ones status "in Christ".
If they did, no one could be saved.

It is of course the lack of repentance, resulting from disbelief, that seperaates one from Christ, not the Sin itself.

Belief is the measuring Stick.
A serial murderer can repent and believe in his dyig breath and Jesus will grant him a full pardon.

The unbeliever who otherwise lived a sinless life, on the other hand, will be doomed.

Whether one sins or not, is irrelevant.

Belief is the measure by which we are judged, for sin is no longer imputed against us.

Romans 5:13
For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Jesus Defeated Death and Sin for all who are in Him.

Now, Paul was very clear that just because the law was obsloete and sin was without it's strength, didn't mean we can "do as we please":

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Christians have a much higher standard than the law engraved on tablets of stone.

We have the Spirit written on the fleshly tablets of our heart. That law requires a much harder/higher/more righteous standard. The life of Christ and love of the brethren.

The Law offered no aid to the demands it required upon pain of death. Instead, the royal law from our New Lawgiver provides us with the means (new life) to accomplish its goal (people zealous for good deeds).

Now as a slave to righteousness our inclination and desire is to please our heavenly Father and love the brotherhood. Our motivation is different as well. Instead of the fear of death and punishment, we have no condemnation and are motivated by love (perfect love casts out fear).

So we are truly free, from condemnation and fear, but love constrains us to act, and the Spirit strives against the flesh so that we don't carry out what we might.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: According to the scriptures, no one is saved from sin so we are now free to continue to practice sin. Salvation is from sin not to be made free to continue to sin according to the scriptures (see John 8:31-36; 1 John 3:6-10; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 2:1-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14). According to the scriptures in times of ignorance God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. If God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we then choose to reject God's Word in order to continue in a life of known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to the judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-31. Sin of course is defined in the new covenant scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following what God's Word says *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Romans 14:23; Matthew 7:21-23.
Your response...
I'm gonna guess you mean "not" instead of "now"?
Your guess would be wrong. According to the scriptures, no one is saved from sin so we are now free to continue to practice sin.
It is of course the lack of repentance, resulting from disbelief, that seperaates one from Christ, not the Sin itself. Belief is the measuring Stick. A serial murderer can repent and believe in his dyig breath and Jesus will grant him a full pardon. The unbeliever who otherwise lived a sinless life, on the other hand, will be doomed. Whether one sins or not, is irrelevant. Belief is the measure by which we are judged.
Actually no. They are not separate. Sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing God's Word (unbelief) *James 2:10-11; Romans 14:23. According to the scriptures sin (unbelief and breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) separates us from God....Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. It is God therefore who saves us as we believe His Word. Faith therefore saves us from our sins as we believe Gods' Word it is God who gives us the power of His Spirit to follow what His Word says *2 Peter 1:3-4; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4. There is no unbeliever that lives a sinless life *Romans 3:9-20.

Take care.
 
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Beanieboy

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According to the scriptures, no one is saved from sin so we are now free to continue to practice sin. Salvation is from sin not to be made free to continue to sin according to the scriptures (see John 8:31-36; 1 John 3:6-10; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 2:1-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14). According to the scriptures in times of ignorance God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he calls all men everywhere to believe and follow what His Word says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. If God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we then choose to reject God's Word in order to continue in a life of known unrepentant sin according to the scriptures there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to the judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-31. Sin of course is defined in the new covenant scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following what God's Word says *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Romans 14:23; Matthew 7:21-23.

Take Care.

I am left with a few questions.
1) The scripture is saying through salvation, we do not continue to sin. I define that as not loving my neighbor as myself, and acting selfishly, etc.
However, everyone sins, meaning, try as we may, we all still miss the mark, even as Christians. Isn't then saying to another that they haven't repented and therefore unsaved, hypocritical unless you yourself are without any sin? If we admit the truth, that we still sin because we are weak, do that make all of us unsaved?
2) Let's use a sin no one talks about, like taking God's name in vain. You have a tendency to say [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] all the time, and old habits die hard. You hit your shin on a table, say, Oh, Jesus Racken Fracken Brontosaurus. Because I still overhear you, and it happens occasionally, is it my place to then judge you as unrepetant?
3) How often do you tell other believers what sin they need to repent of? I hear people say it to glbt, but no one else. Despite the fact that we all sin, only glbt people are told annoying phrases, like, "I love you, I just hate your sin." I replied once to a woman, Thank you. I also love you on Christ. And uh...Hare your sin too."
"My sin?!!!'" She was offended. I assume that she has some sin, and, of course, we are to hate sin. She was offended because I reminded her that she too haw sin. She argued that she doesn't willfully sin. When I sin I own it. I . don't sin accidentally No one does. You have free will, and make bad choices sometimes, but all if it intentionally. . We don't accidentally lie, lie against our will. We make a consciously lie when we do.
3) If we say to someone that they have not repented because they still sin, thus unsaved, aren't ww technically implying that by choosing to stop that sin, we are saving ourselves?
4) I feel like when one is talking to the person who hasn't repented, what we almost always mean is the glbt person. We don't scrutinize the person who divorced and remarried, saying that according to Christ, they are committing adultery, or living an adulterous lifestyle We don't ask single Christians in the church if they are fornicating, or living a fornication lifestyle or decide if sexually active singles should be allowed in church.

While CF declares it sin, whenever someone says the bible is very clear about it, it shows they haven't researched it much, because even theologians are split on the issue. "The clobber verses", such as Sodom and Gomorrah, is misunderstood. There are Youtube videos arguing both sides.

My mother believed all drinking was a sin. She forbade it in the house. I like to have a beer or two on occasion and while she may think I am sinning, I do not. I have had friends who have used scripture to condemn all drinking. Simply using common sense, getting drunk is abusive to my body. I say and do things i regret, can potentially harm myself or others, so I don't get drunk. However getting drunk and having a drink are very different. Would i call getting drunk a sin? It's more like hedonism, and harming yourself.

But I have been told my many Christians that because I am gay, I date, that i am somehow disqualified from Salvation. Some even go so far as to refuse to acknowledge me as a Christian.

And understand, that kind of thing I have been hearing for about 35+ years now. I have been told that it doesn't matter if you have random sex with strangers or a monogamous marriage, it's all sin. And on the glbt community side, I am asked why I would ever want to remain in a religion that has oppressed glbt people as far back as i can remember, with Anita Bryant fighting for discrimination in the workplace, to the military, to DOMA, to claiming that AIDS is God's punishment. Even from a Christian POV, that isn't loving one's neighbor, and show no Fruit of the Spirit. So, when I see you tubers who have channels about being a gay christian, After the treatment many of us have gone through at the hands of some Christians, it's kind of a miracle any of us are left.

And it's an issue I have prayed for hours and hours about since I was 13, and 58 now, and still pray about it. So, it makes sense that I may be thinking about it, because it involves romantic relationships, that are integral to our lives. I don't obsess over divorced people. I don't obsess on abortion because I have neither been in their situation nor know anyone who has had an unwanted pregnancy. I have always been thin, but I don't obsess over unrepentant fat people, or claim they live a lifestyle of gluttony. I wouldn't ask single Christians if they have remained celibate or disobey God and fornicate, mostly because it's really not my business.

Is the real focus on homosexuality about pointing to something a straight person has no interest in, and so easily condemned, as opposed to fornication, pre-marital sex? And why do we nevee discuss it? If quoting Romans, why ignore gossips? People who slander?

It is inconsistent.
 
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parousia70

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Your response...

Your guess would be wrong. According to the scriptures, no one is saved from sin so we are now free to continue to practice sin.

Paul was very clear that just because the law was obsloete and sin was without it's strength, didn't mean we can "do as we please":

Romans 6:1-2
1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Christians have a much higher standard than the law engraved on tablets of stone.

We have the Spirit written on the fleshly tablets of our heart. That law requires a much harder/higher/more righteous standard. The life of Christ and love of the brethren.

The Law offered no aid to the demands it required upon pain of death. Instead, the royal law from our New Lawgiver provides us with the means (new life) to accomplish its goal (people zealous for good deeds).

Now as a slave to righteousness our inclination and desire is to please our heavenly Father and love the brotherhood. Our motivation is different as well. Instead of the fear of death and punishment, we have no condemnation and are motivated by love (perfect love casts out fear).

So we are truly free, from condemnation and fear, but love constrains us to act, and the Spirit strives against the flesh so that we don't carry out what we might.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I am left with a few questions.
1) The scripture is saying through salvation, we do not continue to sin. I define that as not loving my neighbor as myself, and acting selfishly, etc.
However, everyone sins, meaning, try as we may, we all still miss the mark, even as Christians. Isn't then saying to another that they haven't repented and therefore unsaved, hypocritical unless you yourself are without any sin? If we admit the truth, that we still sin because we are weak, do that make all of us unsaved?
2) Let's use a sin no one talks about, like taking God's name in vain. You have a tendency to say [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] all the time, and old habits die hard. You hit your shin on a table, say, Oh, Jesus Racken Fracken Brontosaurus. Because I still overhear you, and it happens occasionally, is it my place to then judge you as unrepetant?
3) How often do you tell other believers what sin they need to repent of? I hear people say it to glbt, but no one else. Despite the fact that we all sin, only glbt people are told annoying phrases, like, "I love you, I just hate your sin." I replied once to a woman, Thank you. I also love you on Christ. And uh...Hare your sin too."
"My sin?!!!'" She was offended. I assume that she has some sin, and, of course, we are to hate sin. She was offended because I reminded her that she too haw sin. She argued that she doesn't willfully sin. When I sin I own it. I . don't sin accidentally No one does. You have free will, and make bad choices sometimes, but all if it intentionally. . We don't accidentally lie, lie against our will. We make a consciously lie when we do.
3) If we say to someone that they have not repented because they still sin, thus unsaved, aren't ww technically implying that by choosing to stop that sin, we are saving ourselves?
4) I feel like when one is talking to the person who hasn't repented, what we almost always mean is the glbt person. We don't scrutinize the person who divorced and remarried, saying that according to Christ, they are committing adultery, or living an adulterous lifestyle We don't ask single Christians in the church if they are fornicating, or living a fornication lifestyle or decide if sexually active singles should be allowed in church.

While CF declares it sin, whenever someone says the bible is very clear about it, it shows they haven't researched it much, because even theologians are split on the issue. "The clobber verses", such as Sodom and Gomorrah, is misunderstood. There are Youtube videos arguing both sides.

My mother believed all drinking was a sin. She forbade it in the house. I like to have a beer or two on occasion and while she may think I am sinning, I do not. I have had friends who have used scripture to condemn all drinking. Simply using common sense, getting drunk is abusive to my body. I say and do things i regret, can potentially harm myself or others, so I don't get drunk. However getting drunk and having a drink are very different. Would i call getting drunk a sin? It's more like hedonism, and harming yourself.

But I have been told my many Christians that because I am gay, I date, that i am somehow disqualified from Salvation. Some even go so far as to refuse to acknowledge me as a Christian.

And understand, that kind of thing I have been hearing for about 35+ years now. I have been told that it doesn't matter if you have random sex with strangers or a monogamous marriage, it's all sin. And on the glbt community side, I am asked why I would ever want to remain in a religion that has oppressed glbt people as far back as i can remember, with Anita Bryant fighting for discrimination in the workplace, to the military, to DOMA, to claiming that AIDS is God's punishment. Even from a Christian POV, that isn't loving one's neighbor, and show no Fruit of the Spirit. So, when I see you tubers who have channels about being a gay christian, After the treatment many of us have gone through at the hands of some Christians, it's kind of a miracle any of us are left.

And it's an issue I have prayed for hours and hours about since I was 13, and 58 now, and still pray about it. So, it makes sense that I may be thinking about it, because it involves romantic relationships, that are integral to our lives. I don't obsess over divorced people. I don't obsess on abortion because I have neither been in their situation nor know anyone who has had an unwanted pregnancy. I have always been thin, but I don't obsess over unrepentant fat people, or claim they live a lifestyle of gluttony. I wouldn't ask single Christians if they have remained celibate or disobey God and fornicate, mostly because it's really not my business.

Is the real focus on homosexuality about pointing to something a straight person has no interest in, and so easily condemned, as opposed to fornication, pre-marital sex? And why do we nevee discuss it? If quoting Romans, why ignore gossips? People who slander?

It is inconsistent.

Being born again to love is God's new covenant promise in all those who believe and follow God's Word and unless we are born again to love we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; John 3:3-7. Love is how God writes His law in our hearts and mind so that we can obey Gods' Word. According to the scriptures sin is defined as breaking any one of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following what Gods' Word says *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23 and according to Jesus in Matthew 5:17-28 sin originates in our very thoughts and feelings.

According to the scriptures Jesus came to magnify the law from the inside out (thoughts and feelings; the mind or heart) quoting Matthew 5:17-32 in fulfillment of *Isaiah 42:21. This is to show that unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the kingdom of heaven *Matthew 5:20. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. Evil begins in the heart *Genesis 6:5 which was the reason mankind was destroyed the first time in the flood *Genesis 6:7-13. Breaking God's 10 commandments from the heart Jesus says is what defile a man *Matthew15:18-19. Jesus is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *Matthew 23:27-28. So who can be saved?

Jesus knows us that naturally we do not have the love of God in us *John 5:42. This is why we need to be born again in the Spirit by faith to love God and keep his commandments *1 John 3:6-9. Jesus magnified the law to the inside out to show us that we are all sinners *Romans 3:9-10 in need of a Savior but many do not know the meaning of these scriptures *Matthew 9:12-13. This is the new covenant promise of God’s salvation in those who believe his Word and why we need to be born again through faith *1 John 5:3-4 to be free from sin (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 John 3:3-10; John 8:32-36; James 2:10-11; 1 John 2:3-4.

If we are not born again into God’s new covenant promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 24:13.

Righteousness comes from love because love is the fulfilling of God's law and the very expression of what love is *Romans 13:8-10. He that does not love does not know god for God is love * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are born again have a new heart to love and follow God *1 John 4:7. This is the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. Those who are born again do not practice sin (breaking God's Commandments) *1 John 3:4-9. This is why John finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 John 5:3 and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN *John 3:3-7 in to walk in the Spirit *Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16 under Gods new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 to love we will not enter God’s Kingdom *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the inside out which is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5.

All those who knowingly break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19-20. All those who knowingly continue in unrepentant sin when they have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods’ Word and reject it according to the scriptures will not enter into God's kingdom because they reject the gift of God’s dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God’s grace *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-27; Romans 6:23.

God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments or the 613 in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Love establishes God's law in those who believe and follow God's Word (Romans 8:1-4). Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved it is simply the fruit of love because salvation has already been provided through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:15; John 15:10-12; John 14:21; Matthew 22:26-40. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. You cannot separate faith and works according to the scriptures just the same as you cannot separate love and law as obedience is the fruit of faith in God's Word which is how love to God and man is expressed.

This is the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 13:8-10 and is why Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments. and on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets. Gods' new covenant promise of being born again to love therefore does not abolish God's law. Love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law as we believe Gods' Word and walk in His Spirit.

God bless. :wave:
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Paul was very clear that just because the law was obsloete and sin was without it's strength, didn't mean we can "do as we please":

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Christians have a much higher standard than the law engraved on tablets of stone.

We have the Spirit written on the fleshly tablets of our heart. That law requires a much harder/higher/more righteous standard. The life of Christ and love of the brethren.

The Law offered no aid to the demands it required upon pain of death. Instead, the royal law from our New Lawgiver provides us with the means (new life) to accomplish its goal (people zealous for good deeds).

Now as a slave to righteousness our inclination and desire is to please our heavenly Father and love the brotherhood. Our motivation is different as well. Instead of the fear of death and punishment, we have no condemnation and are motivated by love (perfect love casts out fear).

So we are truly free, from condemnation and fear, but love constrains us to act, and the Spirit strives against the flesh so that we don't carry out what we might.

According to the scriptures God's law is not obsolete. Everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant (scripture support) as the standard of Christian living and taught by Jesus and the Apostles in the new testament (scripture support). God's 10 commandments have the same role they always had according to the new covenant scriptures and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 and made free to walk in God's Spirit as we believe God's Word *Romans 3:31; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4. If God's law was abolished we would have no knowledge of what sin is. If we have no knowledge of what sin is we have no need of God's salvation. If we have no need of God's salvation we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior from our sins we are lost because we are still in our sins. The scripture is then fulfilled "And you will not come to me, that you might have life." John 5:49. God's law is the teacher that leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith to receive God's forgiveness and why Jesus says in Matthew 9:12-13 They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick but go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. If we throw away our lamp we have no light to find our way when the road is dark and narrow.

Take Care.
 
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Beanieboy

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I was watching The Cleveland Show last night, and the episode was about Cleveland pressuring his teen daughter into pledging her virginity to her father until she got married during a church service. Seeing numerous teen girls stand up and agree to take the pledge, the daughter doesn't move, but his son stands and says he wants to pledge his virginity to his father, showing how creepy the idea is, but also, the double standard. In my church, the purity pledge is almost always focused on girls. Cleveland is upset, telling his son that he is embarrased of his son's virginity, and the neighborhood men mock the son. When one neighbor realizes that the prostitute jar empty, and both his son and Cleveland Jr are gone, they conclude that they must have gone to the brothel to lose their virginity. Having a change of heart, the son decides it better that he takes back control of his own virginity. I would guess the son about 12. It concludes with the son asking how old his father was when he lost his virginity, and he says 9.

Wow. So wrong on so many levels. But I was thinking how JFK has Marilyn Monroe as a mistress, and it was relatively common that married men have some side piece. Solomon had multiple wives and concubines, again, sex outside the marriage. In a show called James at 15, for his 16th birthday, his grandfather had hired a prostitute for him to lose his virginity. I guess bringing your son or grandson to a whorehouse was acceptable at one time. There are so many examples of what seems clearly like sin to me, from the double standard, to teaching boys any girl who says yes is a harlot, to encouraging boys to fornicate and sometime congratulating them, to this instance of the Cleveland Show that seems to imply that at age 9 or 12, you should be having sex.

And that is rarely if ever talked about. The purity pledges that i have read about are a daughter-father thing. There is no son-mother purity pledge. Makes you wonder.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I was watching The Cleveland Show last night, and the episode was about Cleveland pressuring his teen daughter into pledging her virginity to her father until she got married during a church service. Seeing numerous teen girls stand up and agree to take the pledge, the daughter doesn't move, but his son stands and says he wants to pledge his virginity to his father, showing how creepy the idea is, but also, the double standard. In my church, the purity pledge is almost always focused on girls. Cleveland is upset, telling his son that he is embarrased of his son's virginity, and the neighborhood men mock the son. When one neighbor realizes that the prostitute jar empty, and both his son and Cleveland Jr are gone, they conclude that they must have gone to the brothel to lose their virginity. Having a change of heart, the son decides it better that he takes back control of his own virginity. I would guess the son about 12. It concludes with the son asking how old his father was when he lost his virginity, and he says 9.

Wow. So wrong on so many levels. But I was thinking how JFK has Marilyn Monroe as a mistress, and it was relatively common that married men have some side piece. Solomon had multiple wives and concubines, again, sex outside the marriage. In a show called James at 15, for his 16th birthday, his grandfather had hired a prostitute for him to lose his virginity. I guess bringing your son or grandson to a whorehouse was acceptable at one time. There are so many examples of what seems clearly like sin to me, from the double standard, to teaching boys any girl who says yes is a harlot, to encouraging boys to fornicate and sometime congratulating them, to this instance of the Cleveland Show that seems to imply that at age 9 or 12, you should be having sex.

And that is rarely if ever talked about. The purity pledges that i have read about are a daughter-father thing. There is no son-mother purity pledge. Makes you wonder.

I think this is what happens when God's Word is not our rule of life. Thanks for sharing Beanieboy

God bless
 
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A_Thinker

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We probably will not find common ground on this topic, but the scriptures are certainly there to support the idea that Jesus is the Sabbath.
Jesus is the Sabbath.

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden ... and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, ... for I am meek and lowly in heart ... and you shall find rest unto your souls. For My yoke is easy ... and My burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30
 
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A_Thinker

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You can not obey the spirit of the law by breaking the letter ...
Mark 2

23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
 
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Jesus is the Sabbath.

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden ... and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, ... for I am meek and lowly in heart ... and you shall find rest unto your souls. For My yoke is easy ... and My burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30
many people believe this, but a sda would have to walk away from their theology to believe it. Seems to me that it is preferable for many to keep some form of bondage bc they simply can’t wrap their heads around the fact that we are totally free in Christ
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Jesus is the Sabbath."Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden ... and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, ... for I am meek and lowly in heart ... and you shall find rest unto your souls. For My yoke is easy ... and My burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30

Jesus is not a Sabbath and there is no scripture that supports this teaching. According to the scriptures Jesus is the Lord and creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind *Mark 2:27-28. The only definition of the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment in the scriptures is that the Sabbath is the "seventh day" of creation that God commands us to keep as a holy day of rest. Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God... Your mixing up the rest we receive through believing and following God's Word with Gods "seventh day" Sabbath of the creation week that is a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth and one of God's 4th commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

Take Care.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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many people believe this, but a sda would have to walk away from their theology to believe it. Seems to me that it is preferable for many to keep some form of bondage bc they simply can’t wrap their heads around the fact that we are totally free in Christ
Not really what is it that has been shared here through the scriptures alone that you do not believe? Where is the scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath? - There is none.
 
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A_Thinker

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Jesus is not a Sabbath and there is no scripture that supports this teaching. According to the scriptures Jesus is the Lord and creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind *Mark 2:27-28. The only definition of the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment in the scriptures is that the Sabbath is the "seventh day" of creation that God commands us to keep as a holy day of rest. Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God... Your mixing up the rest we receive through believing and following God's Word with Gods "seventh day" Sabbath of the creation week that is a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth and one of God's 4th commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

Take Care.
The Sabbath is rest.

Jesus is rest.

You are hung up on the shadow ... and missing the fulfillment.

Colossians 2

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
 
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