Sin & Sickness

[Ishmael Borg]

He died for the sins of the whole world. So that we could inherit eternal life. He died in our place for us. It was though one man, Adam, that sin entered into the world, and the result of sin is death. It was though one man, christ, that the penelity or the price was paid for mankind's sin. God is a God of absolute justice. People so often think of sin as people only hurting themselves. But people sin in that they hurt others a lot more than what they realize. God demands justice, He demands that a price be paid for people hurting one another. Jesus paid that price.

Jesus actually had no advantage over us. He was a man with all the limitations that we have. When He was baptised, he received the Holy Spirit of God, just like we receive the Holy Spirit of God. We can not only do, everything that Jesus did when He walked the earth. He clearly said we would do greater works than He did. If Jesus went about healing, teaching and doing good onto others, all the more we can do those good works.

Thanks for the answer John, honestly. But it didn't really answer my question. If susceptibility to physical harm is directly proportional to sin, what could have killed a sinless man?

 

[JohnR7]

If susceptibility to physical harm is directly proportional to sin, what could have killed a sinless man?

I don't know. Most Christians believe that Jesus layed down His own life. Otherwise they would not have been able to kill Him. He said He has a whole army of angels that He could have called on to help Him. In addition, there were a lot of people in Jerusalem who would have put up a battle, before allowing Him to be arrested. They were looking for someone to lead them in a revolt against the Romans and there were people who thought Jesus would be perfect for that.

What about Paul in the Bible? They stoned him to "death" in that they left him for dead, outside of the city. But he just got up and walked into town. The next day he left for a mission journey, back when travel was a little bit more diffiult than having your pillow fluffed and making a decision if you want a blanket and a magazine or not.

They say that John who wrote the book of Rev. was thrown into boiling oil in a attempt to kill him. But they were not able to, so they exiled him to the island of Patmos. We read about Daniel and the lions den, where the mouths of the hungry lions were shut by the angels. What about the three hebrew boys were were thrown into the burning furnace and the could not kill them.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I don't know. Most Christians believe that Jesus layed down His own life. Otherwise they would not have been able to kill Him. He said He has a whole army of angels that He could have called on to help Him.

Interesting. Chapter and verse?

In addition, there were a lot of people in Jerusalem who would have put up a battle, before allowing Him to be arrested. They were looking for someone to lead them in a revolt against the Romans and there were people who thought Jesus would be perfect for that.

of course, Jesus had no interest in a revolt, and actually preached against such actions. "Give unto Caesar" and all that.
And his "supporters" were nowhere to be found once he was arrested. Even Peter denied his involvement three times... precisely as Jesus had prediected.

What about Paul in the Bible? They stoned him to "death" in that they left him for dead, outside of the city. But he just got up and walked into town. The next day he left for a mission journey, back when travel was a little bit more diffiult than having your pillow fluffed and making a decision if you want a blanket and a magazine or not.

Not quite as "dead" as we would believe, then.

They say that John who wrote the book of Rev. was thrown into boiling oil in a attempt to kill him. But they were not able to, so they exiled him to the island of Patmos.

"They" who?

We read about Daniel and the lions den, where the mouths of the hungry lions were shut by the angels. What about the three hebrew boys were were thrown into the burning furnace and the could not kill them.

Oral tradition tends towards hyperbole. And the motif of "Good man = long healthy life" is rather simple to understand. Of course, if you actually do believe that everyone, not just Adam, Noah, and Methuselah, lived to 1000 years, and that this was a normal occurance, then the symbolic meaning is utterly lost on you.

 

[Ishmael Borg]

I don't know.

Fair enough.

 

[JohnR7]

Interesting. Chapter and verse?

mat 26: 53 "Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions R1038 F568 of angels?

 

[JohnR7]

then the symbolic meaning is utterly lost on you.

Why would the symbolism be lost, just because we are talking about a real story about real people? The sacrifices in the Hebrew temple were very real. They were to be a object lesson and we should still be able to explain them today.

I am sure we could find someone in the Bible that is just like you Nathan. That does not make them any less real, that they represent you.

 

[LorentzHA]

Backwards again Lorentz, He can heal you, but you choose not to allow Him to.

...oh this is rich. Yes, maybe one day I will see the light-like you Johnny.

 

[LorentzHA]

No matter what they tell you John, stay AWAY from the Kool-Aid!!!

 

[JohnR7]

...oh this is rich. Yes, maybe one day I will see the light-like you Johnny.

Maybe, I would not give up hope, there is always a chance, even for you.

 

[LorentzHA]

Maybe, I would not give up hope, there is always a chance, even for you.

You keep this up and people are going to start talking about us...

 

[JohnR7]

You keep this up and people are going to start talking about us...

My grandmother use to say: I would rather have people talking about me, than ignoring me.

 

[JohnR7]

No matter what they tell you John, stay AWAY from the Kool-Aid!!!

Why did you make it?

 

[Nathan Poe]

mat 26: 53 "Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions R1038 F568 of angels?

Ah. Fascinating stuff; Jesus speaking to his disciples warning them not to resist his arrest, claiming that if he didn't want to go, the angels would intervene on his command.

Odd, it wouldn't be like him to "pull rank" like this. And why pray for angels? Being God in flesh, wouldn't they answer him directly? But I digress...

And it does certainly look like Jesus chose to die; and the next verse shows why:

MATT 26:54 "But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?"

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Did Jesus choose to die, or did he think he had to do it because the OT prophecies said so?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Why would the symbolism be lost, just because we are talking about a real story about real people? The sacrifices in the Hebrew temple were very real. They were to be a object lesson and we should still be able to explain them today.

I was talking about the extreme old ages, John. Do try to stay on topic...

I am sure we could find someone in the Bible that is just like you Nathan. That does not make them any less real, that they represent you.

Indeed you could, but that would be a non sequitor here...

 

[ej]

God clearly says that He will protect the bones of the righteous. Not one of them will be broken. Christian or not, if people are living right before God, then they do not have to worry about broken bones.

Are you suggesting that a righteous person would remain intact in a head-on car wreck, or during an assault with a baseball bet? (Yes or no will suffice)

Why do you limit God like that? For someone who claims to be in the healing business, you sure do not know much about God's Divine Healing.

I know His healing is spiritual.
I know that the physical healing of a bone in 4 weeks is a miracle.

But unbreakable bones? A myth.

 

[Nathan Poe]

God clearly says that He will protect the bones of the righteous. Not one of them will be broken. Christian or not, if people are living right before God, then they do not have to worry about broken bones.

Jesus also said that those who believe in him can drink poison and not be harmed.

Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Care to prove your faith with a rattlesnake venom cocktail, Johnny?

Why do you limit God like that? For someone who claims to be in the healing business, you sure do not know much about God's Divine Healing.

Nobody's questioning God's power. He could heal, but he chooses not to.

 

[JohnR7]

Jesus also said that those who believe in him can drink poison and not be harmed.

I drink your poison all the time and it hasn't killed me.

 

[JohnR7]

Are you suggesting that a righteous person would remain intact in a head-on car wreck, or during an assault with a baseball bet? (Yes or no will suffice)

A righteous man would have angels watching over him. He would have protection. He would remain intact. Of course the question is, just how many people are actually righteous before God.

 

[JohnR7]

Did Jesus choose to die, or did he think he had to do it because the OT prophecies said so?

God had this all worked out at least 5970 years ago, from the foundation of the world as we now know it.

 

[Just An Atheist]

A righteous man would have angels watching over him. He would have protection. He would remain intact. Of course the question is, just how many people are actually righteous before God.

Interesting. You claim that to be true, yet also say it doesn't actually apply to anybody - at least anybody who fails the test.