Sin is...

[GingerBeer]

And no, that's not what he said.

"they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad" - Paul

 

[Hammster]

"they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad" - Paul

You said "because they had not yet been born". It doesn't give the reason like you assert.

 

[GingerBeer]

You said "because they had not yet been born". It doesn't give the reason like you assert.

"they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad"

For the children being not yet born - It was not, therefore, by any works of theirs. It was not because they had formed a character and manifested qualities which made this distinction proper. It was laid back of any such character, and therefore had its foundation in the purpose or plan of God.

Neither having done any good or evil - That is, when the declaration Rom 9:12 was made to Rebecca. This is a very important passage in regard to the question about the purposes of God.

1. They had done nothing good or bad; and when that is the case, there can be, properly speaking, no moral character, for “a character is not formed when the person has not acquired stable and distinctive qualities.” Webster.
2. That the period of moral agency had not yet commenced; compare Gen 25:22-23. When that agency commences, we do not know; but here is a case of which it is alarmed that it had not commenced.
3. The purpose of God is antecedent to the formation of character, or the performance of any actions, good or bad.
4. It is not a purpose formed because he sees anything in the individuals as a ground for his choice, but for some reason which he has not explained, and which in the Scripture is simply called purpose and good pleasure; Eph 1:5.
5. If it existed in this case, it does in others. If it was right then, it is now. And if God then dispensed his favors on this principle, he will now. But,
6. This affirmation respecting Jacob and Esau does not prove that they had not a nature inclined to evil; or a corrupt and sensual propensity; or that they would not sin as soon as they became moral agents. It proves merely that they had not yet committed actual sin. That they, as well as all others, would certainly sin as soon as they committed moral acts at all, is proved everywhere in the Sacred Scriptures.

-- Albert Barnes' Notes on the whole Bible.​

 

[Hammster]

"they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad"

For the children being not yet born - It was not, therefore, by any works of theirs. It was not because they had formed a character and manifested qualities which made this distinction proper. It was laid back of any such character, and therefore had its foundation in the purpose or plan of God.

Neither having done any good or evil - That is, when the declaration Rom 9:12 was made to Rebecca. This is a very important passage in regard to the question about the purposes of God.

1. They had done nothing good or bad; and when that is the case, there can be, properly speaking, no moral character, for “a character is not formed when the person has not acquired stable and distinctive qualities.” Webster.
2. That the period of moral agency had not yet commenced; compare Gen 25:22-23. When that agency commences, we do not know; but here is a case of which it is alarmed that it had not commenced.
3. The purpose of God is antecedent to the formation of character, or the performance of any actions, good or bad.
4. It is not a purpose formed because he sees anything in the individuals as a ground for his choice, but for some reason which he has not explained, and which in the Scripture is simply called purpose and good pleasure; Eph 1:5.
5. If it existed in this case, it does in others. If it was right then, it is now. And if God then dispensed his favors on this principle, he will now. But,
6. This affirmation respecting Jacob and Esau does not prove that they had not a nature inclined to evil; or a corrupt and sensual propensity; or that they would not sin as soon as they became moral agents. It proves merely that they had not yet committed actual sin. That they, as well as all others, would certainly sin as soon as they committed moral acts at all, is proved everywhere in the Sacred Scriptures.

-- Albert Barnes' Notes on the whole Bible.​

That still doesn't make the verse say "because".

 

[JIMINZ]

Has anyone yet defined SIN to the point where everyone speaking of SIN in this thread understands and accepts the definition?

In other words, is everyone on the same page, or does everyone still use their own definition for SIN.

As far as I understand, Original Sin was not mentioned in the OP and has no bearing on, or in the discussion, it is only a point of confusion, and contention.

 

[JIMINZ]

No it's not. What was left out of the OP about sin is that sin can cause ANY person WITHOUT EXCEPTION to be lost Therefore if the Christian impenitently sins and yet that sin has no effect on his salvation at all then there must not really be anything as sin since sin causes ANY person to be lost.

You keep using the word IMPENITENT do you know what the definition of that word actually is?

Not feeling regret about one's sin or sins;
not sorry:
unrepentant, hardened.

Your making it sound as though the Christian whose sin is not imputed to him is using this freedom from sin as a license to sin.

The word Impenitent denotes a Not Caring on the part of the Christian who sins, this is not so, otherwise the Christian in question, wouldn't be a Christian at all.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I never said sinless was a lack of original sin.

So what's the problem then with Job

 

[Hammster]

So what's the problem then with Job

I don't have a problem with Job.

 

[JIMINZ]

Absolutely universal

“as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS "; "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS "; "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN." "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:10-18‬ ‭NASB‬‬

All-pervasive

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. - 2 Corinthians 4:4

The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. - Genesis 6:5

39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. - John 5:39-40

Irrational

Selling the birthright for a bowl of soup.

Plus, I think we can fill up pages to give evidence of this.

Deceitful

But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called "today," that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. - Hebrews 3:13

Claiming to be wise, they became fools, - Romans 1:22

Hardening

Also Hebrews 3:13

through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, - 1 Timothy 4:2

Enslaving

Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. - John 8:34

so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. - Romans 5:21

Debasing

But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction, - 2 Peter 2:12

But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. - Jude 1:10

Defiling

20 And he said, "What comes out of a person is what defiles him.
21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,
22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.
23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person." - Mark 7:20-23

Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. - Romans 7:13

Within the (Enslaving) aspect of your OP, you use the verse.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who (PRACTICES) sin is a slave to sin.

As the word Practices is used in this verse.
What is your understanding of the word?

Does the word Practices, denote a One Time Sin, or a Continuing In Sin?

 

[Hammster]

Within the (Enslaving) aspect of your OP, you use the verse.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who (PRACTICES) sin is a slave to sin.

As the word Practices is used in this verse.
What is your understanding of the word?

Does the word Practices, denote a One Time Sin, or a Continuing In Sin?

Perhaps an example is best to explain. We are not to lust. I don't lust after women for the most part. Occasionally I'll let my guard down and I will lust.

While I still sin, it's not a practice of said sin.

 

[sdowney717]

There is no sin in being tempted, it is an attack of Satan. It is our reaction to the temptation that could become sin.
For those who tempt others, it is a sin, if they wilfully do that which would tempt other people. We are not to be ignorant of Satan's schemes against us, meaning their is a devil and he desires to make you fall into sin. And all the people of the world are under Satan's sway.

1 Timothy 6:9New King James Version (NKJV)
9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I don't have a problem with Job.

I'm just trying to see why you disagree with the other guy I thought that was it but like usual you're a hard guy to read you seem to be saying something but it turns Ot you're saying something else

 

[Hammster]

I'm just trying to see why you disagree with the other guy I thought that was it but like usual you're a hard guy to read you seem to be saying something but it turns Ot you're saying something else

I have a problem with folks that think Job was sinless. I don't have a problem with Job.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I have a problem with folks that think Job was sinless. I don't have a problem with Job.

What sin do you believe he committed in the book of Job

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

C

I have a problem with folks that think Job was sinless. I don't have a problem with Job.

causs when you read it as far as you can tell he was sinless essentially

 

[JIMINZ]

Perhaps an example is best to explain. We are not to lust. I don't lust after women for the most part. Occasionally I'll let my guard down and I will lust.

While I still sin, it's not a practice of said sin.

.

My point being, I assume you have used the NASB for all of your verses posted.

In
John 8:34
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who (PRACTICES) sin is a slave to sin.

The word (PRACTICES) was used, in the NASB.

While the same verse in the KJV says something totally different.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever (COMMITTETH) sin is the servant of sin.

Now, when we look at the two different renderings of the verse we come to a point where there is a dichotomy.

This word (PRACTICES) in the NASB says a person would have to repeatedly sin in order for them to become a (SLAVE) to sin

PRACTICES:
G 4238
πράσσω
prassō
pras'-so
A primary verb; to “PRACTICE”, that is, perform repeatedly or habitually (thus differing from G4160, which properly refers to a single act); by implication to execute, accomplish, etc.; specifically to collect (dues), fare (personally): - commit, deeds, do, exact, keep, require, use arts.


Whereas, in the KJV rendering the word (COMMITTETH) being used,
says a person having only sinned once becomes a (SLAVE) to sin.

COMMITTETH:
G4160
ποιέω
poieō
poy-eh'-o
Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + (TRANSGRESS THE LAW), work, yield. Compare G4238.

Now, there are two verses which speak directly to this question of which Interpretation should we believe to be the correct rendering of this specific Verse. JOHN 8:34

#1 is
Mat. 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

#2 is
Jas 2:10,11
10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Jesus was showing the severity of the Law, He was showing them their need for a Savior.

Did the only people who were Practicing a lifestyle of repeated sin in their lives, (Slaves to sin) bring Sacrifices to the Temple, or did everyone even those who had only sinned one time?

Were not all the people held in bondage (Being a Slave) to their sin until a Sacrifice was made which then freed them from it.

I believe your rendering of the word PRACTICE, instead of the more precise word COMMITTETH which is in line with other Scripture is in error, and therefore leads to more error.

 

[Hammster]

What sin do you believe he committed in the book of Job

I never said there was one. You need to stop assuming.

 

[Hammster]

.

My point being, I assume you have used the NASB for all of your verses posted.

In
John 8:34
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who (PRACTICES) sin is a slave to sin.

The word (PRACTICES) was used, in the NASB.

While the same verse in the KJV says something totally different.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever (COMMITTETH) sin is the servant of sin.

Now, when we look at the two different renderings of the verse we come to a point where there is a dichotomy.

This word (PRACTICES) in the NASB says a person would have to repeatedly sin in order for them to become a (SLAVE) to sin

PRACTICES:
G 4238
πράσσω
prassō
pras'-so
A primary verb; to “PRACTICE”, that is, perform repeatedly or habitually (thus differing from G4160, which properly refers to a single act); by implication to execute, accomplish, etc.; specifically to collect (dues), fare (personally): - commit, deeds, do, exact, keep, require, use arts.


Whereas, in the KJV rendering the word (COMMITTETH) being used,
says a person having only sinned once becomes a (SLAVE) to sin.

COMMITTETH:
G4160
ποιέω
poieō
poy-eh'-o
Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + (TRANSGRESS THE LAW), work, yield. Compare G4238.

Now, there are two verses which speak directly to this question of which Interpretation should we believe to be the correct rendering of this specific Verse. JOHN 8:34

#1 is
Mat. 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

#2 is
Jas 2:10,11
10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Jesus was showing the severity of the Law, He was showing them their need for a Savior.

Did the only people who were Practicing a lifestyle of repeated sin in their lives, (Slaves to sin) bring Sacrifices to the Temple, or did everyone even those who had only sinned one time?

Were not all the people held in bondage (Being a Slave) to their sin until a Sacrifice was made which then freed them from it.

I believe your rendering of the word PRACTICE, instead of the more precise word COMMITTETH which is in line with other Scripture is in error, and therefore leads to more error.

Okay.

 

[JIMINZ]

C

causs when you read it as far as you can tell he was sinless essentially

My take on the story of Job is, in the end was Job restored to everything he had, and more on top of it?

Then in my mind when Job said he was Righteous and not guilty, he was.
He said he was not being punished for something he had done, and he was right.

Job didn't sin I agree.

 

[JIMINZ]

Okay.

You sir are a total waste of time.
When you cannot back up what you say you just say okay.

I'm done with you.