SIN IS STILL SIN

[Akita Suggagaki]

I think we are too obsessed with sin anyway. Either obsessed or oblivious. Very little healthy middle
ground. We were created as we are. If we are fallen and sinful, it is in our DNA. We are weak, vulnerable and quite ignorant. We make poor choices sometimes based on our sense of ego needs. We sometimes let them run the show. That is sin.

But God incarnated as a weak, vulnerable and ignorant infant. So there is nothing wrong with that. I refuse to engage in self loathing or an exaggerated sense of guilt. Most of us are doing the best we can? We celebrate the birth of he who shares the struggle and lifts us.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It is also Biblically sinful to wear clothing of blended material.

Leviticus 19:19 says, “Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.”

 

[2PhiloVoid]

SIN IS STILL SIN

A sin that seems to be getting a free pass by many in the ecumenical church of today. But no matter how many Christians conform to this sin or ANY sin. Sin is still sin no matter how popular it becomes.

Isaiah 3:9
The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

I "trend" toward Worldwide Christian Unity, and I don't think or feel that I have to apologize for that one ounce whatsoever. Does this mean letting sin go and remain unaddressed? No, but it does mean to take each individual where they are, with who they are, and offer FIRST grace, mercy and charity, compassion, understanding, empathy and even sympathy before just dolling out criticism, judgment of Hellfire, and other assorted identifications of moral shortcoming or theological shortcoming.

If I do present hellfire and brimstone judgments, it will usually be done in a more general way upon various institutions or upon specific leaders of obviously 'fallen' organizations or enterprises. (e.g. John the Baptist spoke out against Herod ... ; I'll speak out against the likes of the late Hugh Hefner or any Tom, Dick or Harry who happens to be a promoter of sin like he was.)

 

[Skidder]

I "trend" toward Worldwide Christian Unity, and I don't think or feel that I have to apologize for that one ounce whatsoever. Does this mean letting sin go and remain unaddressed? No, but it does mean to take each individual where they are, with who they are, and offer FIRST grace, mercy and charity, compassion, understanding, empathy and even sympathy before just dolling out criticism, judgment of Hellfire, and other assorted identifications of moral shortcoming or theological shortcoming.

If I do present hellfire and brimstone judgments, it will usually be done in a more general way upon various institutions or upon specific leaders of obviously 'fallen' organizations or enterprises. (e.g. John the Baptist spoke out against Herod ... ; I'll speak out against the likes of the late Hugh Hefner or any Tom, Dick or Harry who happens to be a promoter of sin like he was.)

How can you take anyone where they are, or offer Healing through Christ if sin is no longer sin? If sin is no longer the problem than Christ is no longer the cure. Changing the definition of sin is taking away from what Christ died for. This is a false gospel, because the gospel says Christ died for our sins.

 

[Skidder]

I apologize for the ambiguity. My concern isn't about the atheist postings, but the Christian ones. They are truly not representative of Christians, not even conservative ones. But I really worry that people who don't understand Christianity will read threads like this and think that they represent what Christians are like. Unfortunately there's no real way to respond, because anything you say just drags you into the mud, too.

If a person is caught in homosexuality and the world and the churches in their area are preaching it's OK because God made you that way, why would they come to Christ for healing if that sin is no longer sin? This was my point whole time, and that's why I also included not just this sin but ANY sin...

But no matter how many Christians conform to this sin or ANY sin. Sin is still sin no matter how popular it becomes.

The problem is Atheist jumped in and started twisting what I said that I was condemning the sinner, and some of the Christians actually fell for their diversion. This is a common practice for the spirit behind this stronghold. When you mention that homosexuality is still a sin, the Atheists are usually not far behind. They seem to always show up with their shenanigans.

Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather EXPOSE THEM.

The aggressive spirit behind the stronghold of homosexuality has not changed its tactics for thousands of years. In one of my recent posts, where I was defending God's word that homosexuality is still a sin, I was attacked by several people (including Christians), and the number one false accusation brought against me was that I was being "judgemental" or "playing the judge". I find these accusations extremely fascinating and very liberating because of the parallels reflected in Genesis chapter 19.

When the two angels disguised as men came to warn Lot about the coming wrath of God, the men of the city surrounded Lot's house demanding that Lot send those men out so they could rape them. Lot told them not to do such a wicked thing and they responded by accusing Lot of "playing the judge". Wow! Several thousands of years later the same accusations by the same spirit are still being used to defend this sin today! Not just against me, but I have witnessed these same accusations being used OVER AND OVER by those who have been blinded by the deceitfulness of this same spirit today!

Genesis 19:6-9
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.” “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

But let me be clear, through all of this, my hope and prayer is that the light of Gospel of the Glory of Christ will shine in and reveal the deceitfulness of not just this sin, but all that sets itself up against the knowledge of God. That His discernment and freedom may be revealed even more through a deeper understanding of what happened on that lonely hill! Because only through HIS GRACE do we find a complete victory full of POWER and WISDOM! A VICTORY that reveals the JOY of having a FULL PARDON for our sins, and the SURPASSING RICHES of an EMPTY TOMB!!!

 

[IntriKate]

If a person is caught in homosexuality and the world and the churches in their area are preaching it's OK because God made you that way, why would they come to Christ for healing if that sin is no longer sin? This was my point whole time, and that's why I also included not just this sin but ANY sin...

The problem is Atheist jumped in and started twisting what I said that I was condemning the sinner, and some of the Christians actually fell for their diversion. This is a common practice for the spirit behind this stronghold. When you mention that homosexuality is still a sin, the Atheists are usually not far behind. They seem to always show up with their shenanigans.

Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather EXPOSE THEM.

The aggressive spirit behind the stronghold of homosexuality has not changed its tactics for thousands of years. In one of my recent posts, where I was defending God's word that homosexuality is still a sin, I was attacked by several people (including Christians), and the number one false accusation brought against me was that I was being "judgemental" or "playing the judge". I find these accusations extremely fascinating and very liberating because of the parallels reflected in Genesis chapter 19.

When the two angels disguised as men came to warn Lot about the coming wrath of God, the men of the city surrounded Lot's house demanding that Lot send those men out so they could rape them. Lot told them not to do such a wicked thing and they responded by accusing Lot of "playing the judge". Wow! Several thousands of years later the same accusations by the same spirit are still being used to defend this sin today! Not just against me, but I have witnessed these same accusations being used OVER AND OVER by those who have been blinded by the deceitfulness of this same spirit today!

Genesis 19:6-9
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.” “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

But let me be clear, through all of this, my hope and prayer is that the light of Gospel of the Glory of Christ will shine in and reveal the deceitfulness of not just this sin, but all that sets itself up against the knowledge of God. That His discernment and freedom may be revealed even more through a deeper understanding of what happened on that lonely hill! Because only through HIS GRACE do we find a complete victory full of POWER and WISDOM! A VICTORY that reveals the JOY of having a FULL PARDON for our sins, and the SURPASSING RICHES of an EMPTY TOMB!!!

Maybe instead of focusing on a persons sin (and ignoring your own) Show people a reason to want to change, show them the mercy and love that he has shown you. You seem to have forgotten that Jesus himself reached people where they were at and judges the heart. You are acting like Simon did when the prostitute fell at Jesus’s feet.
You say Sin Is Sin... yet you preach about only the one. Is your hate for them any less of a sin in Gods eyes?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

How can you take anyone where they are, or offer Healing through Christ if sin is no longer sin? If sin is no longer the problem than Christ is no longer the cure. Changing the definition of sin is taking away from what Christ died for. This is a false gospel, because the gospel says Christ died for our sins.

I'm sorry, but I'm not even understanding what you're saying in this thread. I don't equate Ecumenical and/or Transdenominational aspiration with the obfuscating of the New Testament understanding of sin.

 

[Skidder]

(and ignoring your own)

Another false accusation. I think the problem is you fell for the diversion of the Atheist that I was being "judgmental" when all I was doing was warning about the dangers of redefining sin. There is no healing through Christ if we let the world and the ecumenical Church change the definition of what Christ died for. Only a sinner has need for a Savior, and if sin is no longer sin than the sinner is no longer a sinner. Not sure why you can't see this simple truth? But you go right ahead with your false accusations if it makes you feel better about yourself. And by the way, where were you when I was witnessing to all these Atheists that were attacking me? Somebody was preaching the gospel, and somebody was still offended and still attacking me. There is no gospel if you take away what Christ died for. Let that sink in....

 

[Skidder]

I'm sorry, but I'm not even understanding what you're saying in this thread. I don't equate Ecumenical and/or Transdenominational aspiration with the obfuscating of the New Testament understanding of sin.

That's OK. All I was doing is warning of the dangers of accepting the worlds definition of sin rather than the bible's. If sin is no longer sin than what did Christ die for?

 

[IntriKate]

Another false accusation. I think the problem is you fell for the diversion of the Atheist that I was being "judgmental" when all I was doing was warning about the dangers of redefining sin. There is no healing through Christ if we let the world and the ecumenical Church change the definition of what Christ died for. Only a sinner has need for a Savior, and if sin is no longer sin than the sinner is no longer a sinner. Not sure why you can't see this simple truth? But you go right ahead with your false accusations if it makes you feel better about yourself. And by the way, where were you when I was witnessing to all these Atheists that were attacking me? Somebody was preaching the gospel, and somebody was still offended and still attacking me. There is no gospel if you take away what Christ died for. Let that sink in....

You were vague from the op and instead of explaining you just kept saying sin is sin. Any confusion was because of your inability to get the message across clearly in the beginning.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That's OK. All I was doing is warning of the dangers of accepting the worlds definition of sin rather than the bible's. If sin is no longer sin than what did Christ die for?

And I don't accept the world's misperception of Sin, yet I'm still Trans-denominational and/or Ecumenical (even if the actual case is that what I mean by "ecumenical" isn't quite what the more Liberal ecumenicists 'mean' by ecumenical).

 

[topher694]

The main argument taking place here is fascinating in some of the worst possible ways. It's one of those times when both sides are missing it so badly, you don't know if you should say something or make popcorn.

We got a self proclaimed internet preacher who clearly doesn't know the first thing about preaching the good news and actually helping people. Then we've got those who don't believe in God who nevertheless see themselves as greater authorities on Him than those who do. But to be fair it's hard to blame the latter given the failings of the former.

At least sprinkled in there have been a few level-headed posts from Christian brothers/sisters.



That being said here's my hot take: The starting point of preaching, or just reaching out world as Christians, should not be, "here's what is wrong". It should be, "how can I help them, encourage them, bless them, love them...". It should start with being living examples of the Fruit of the Spirit. Why? Because the Fruit of the Spirit are universally positive attributes that anyone can appreciate and aspire to. This is being a light. This in no way means or results in us ignoring or redefining sin. It means we should care more about people than their sin and show them that. When people can sense that we care about them they will be more open to what we have to say about their behavior.

When the starting point becomes their sin (even if they don't think it is sin) without any demonstration of our character or caring about them as people, we appear as nothing more than hypocritical and judgmental. With that sort of approach of course people are going to respond to negatively and argue. Just like we've seen here.

 

[Freodin]

How can you take anyone where they are, or offer Healing through Christ if sin is no longer sin? If sin is no longer the problem than Christ is no longer the cure. Changing the definition of sin is taking away from what Christ died for. This is a false gospel, because the gospel says Christ died for our sins.

I don't think you are supposed to say that out loud. It might draw away the curtain to reveal the man at the machines.

 

[Skidder]

That being said here's my hot take: The starting point of preaching, or just reaching out world as Christians, should not be, "here's what is wrong". It should be, "how can I help them, encourage them, bless them, love them...". It should start with being living examples of the Fruit of the Spirit. Why? Because the Fruit of the

And how can you provide healing if sin is no longer sin? Conforming to sin will never bring healing in Christ. Are you going to tell them it's ok to sin, and things will keep getting better if they do? Sin is the problem and Christ is the cure. It's not that complicated.

 

[Skidder]

I don't think you are supposed to say that out loud. It might draw away the curtain to reveal the man at the machines.

What do you even care? Your religion denies the Christ? Jesus is the only answer for sin. Atheism will never save you from your sins. He died for your sins, and you have a free will to accept His free gift of eternal life or deny it. Only by faith in the one who died for our sins are we forgiven of EVERY sin.

Acts 16:31
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved

 

[Freodin]

Then we've got those who don't believe in God who nevertheless see themselves as greater authorities on Him than those who do. But to be fair it's hard to blame the latter given the failings of the former.

If you think you can do better.... I am always open for a nice and polite conversation.

That being said here's my hot take: The starting point of preaching, or just reaching out world as Christians, should not be, "here's what is wrong". It should be, "how can I help them, encourage them, bless them, love them...". It should start with being living examples of the Fruit of the Spirit. Why? Because the Fruit of the Spirit are universally positive attributes that anyone can appreciate and aspire to. This is being a light. This in no way means or results in us ignoring or redefining sin. It means we should care more about people than their sin and show them that. When people can sense that we care about them they will be more open to what we have to say about their behavior.

I can only speak for myself, and those I have found to have a similar view... but that sounds a tiny bit... dishonest.

Skidder's post #125 basically spelled it out. It's not often that it is so clearly said, and he will of course claim that he meant it differently.
But that's the basic gist: Christianity offer - sells - a cure. In order for people to accept - buy - your cure, you have to convince them that they are ill. You have to find - or invent - an illness, so that your cure will be needed.

That's not a new concept, or one that is limited to religion or Christianity. But it exists.

So there is his approach: convince people that they are ill - "sinful"... and offer the cure: "Jesus". It's not nice, and it may not be true... but it is direct and some kind of honest.

But when you are nice to people - "help them, encourage them, bless them, love them"... and your endgoal is still to sell them your cure for their illness... their "behaviour"... that is a little bit of a dishonest selling tactic, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Freodin]

What do you even care? Your religion denies the Christ? Jesus is the only answer for sin. Atheism will never save you from your sins. He died for your sins, and you have a free will to accept His free gift of eternal life or deny it. Only by faith in the one who died for our sins are we forgiven of EVERY sin.

Acts 16:31
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved

As you seem to think that simply repeating your spiel to others as the only way of talking, let me repay you in kind.

1. Atheism is not a religion.
2. There is nothing to be "saved" from.
3. There are no "sins".

Thank you, come again, tip the waiter and Merry Christmas!

 

[Skidder]

As you seem to think that simply repeating your spiel to others as the only way of talking, let me repay you in kind.

1. Atheism is not a religion.
2. There is nothing to be "saved" from.
3. There are no "sins".

Thank you, come again, tip the waiter and Merry Christmas!

Keep telling yourself that, and I will keep telling you that Jesus is the only answer for sin. Without Him there is no forgiveness.

 

[Freodin]

Keep telling yourself that, and I will keep telling you that Jesus is the only answer for sin.

You already do, pal, you already do. Don't blame me for your behaviour.

Without Him there is no forgiveness.

That is wrong. But I forgive you for being wrong.

 

[Skidder]

The main argument taking place here is fascinating in some of the worst possible ways. It's one of those times when both sides are missing it so badly, you don't know if you should say something or make popcorn.

We got a self proclaimed internet preacher who clearly doesn't know the first thing about preaching the good news and actually helping people. Then we've got those who don't believe in God who nevertheless see themselves as greater authorities on Him than those who do. But to be fair it's hard to blame the latter given the failings of the former.

At least sprinkled in there have been a few level-headed posts from Christian brothers/sisters.



That being said here's my hot take: The starting point of preaching, or just reaching out world as Christians, should not be, "here's what is wrong". It should be, "how can I help them, encourage them, bless them, love them...". It should start with being living examples of the Fruit of the Spirit. Why? Because the Fruit of the Spirit are universally positive attributes that anyone can appreciate and aspire to. This is being a light. This in no way means or results in us ignoring or redefining sin. It means we should care more about people than their sin and show them that. When people can sense that we care about them they will be more open to what we have to say about their behavior.

When the starting point becomes their sin (even if they don't think it is sin) without any demonstration of our character or caring about them as people, we appear as nothing more than hypocritical and judgmental. With that sort of approach of course people are going to respond to negatively and argue. Just like we've seen here.

You are free to keep defending the world's definition of sin, and I will keep defending what Christ really died for. But there is no healing from a false definition of sin.