Sin is Lawlessness

[pescador]

Hi Jan, just wanted to say that 1 John 1:7 describes a Christian, 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 do not. They describe those who have never found the need to repent of their sins because they don't know Christ. They were followers of the false teachers of 1 John 4:1-3. A Christian no longer commits willful sins because they have been filled with Christ's Spirit giving them power over sin. The more we walk in His Spirit the easier it is to live a righteous life.

Actually the first part of 1 John is directed to non-believers. You are correct when you say that 1 John 1:7 describes a Christian. He is telling non-believers the difference between a Christian and an unbeliever. He begins the letter by saying "We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to make our joy complete." Clearly you wouldn't write this to someone who is already in Christ. People often incorrectly apply verses 8 through 10 to believers to justify the doctrine of an endless loop of sinning, begging for forgiveness, sinning, begging for forgiveness, etc. etc. etc. so that believers are regarded as not different from non-believers.

 

[pescador]

Yes, I agree here too. I would just like to add that walking in the Spirit provided for us, IS God's grace. Grace now is no longer "unmerited favor" like it was BEFORE when coming to Christ (not by works), but is actually now the POWER of God to become dead to sin. Now, instead of sin to be dealt with, it is our lack of love we have to grow out of. It doesn't matter if we are sinless if we hate our brother or sister. Hate will keep you out of the kingdom of God as would murder. So let's be kind to one another.

Hating our brother or sister is a sin of the first order but it won't keep you out of God's kingdom. Once God adopts you as his child he will not throw you out. We are supposed to love our neighbor as our self, with no distinction. If you're not loving your neighbor you're not accepting the Holy Spirit's guidance.

 

[bugkiller]

Actually the first part of 1 John is directed to non-believers. You are correct when you say that 1 John 1:7 describes a Christian. He is telling non-believers the difference between a Christian and an unbeliever. He begins the letter by saying "We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to make our joy complete." Clearly you wouldn't write this to someone who is already in Christ. People often incorrectly apply verses 8 through 10 to believers to justify the doctrine of an endless loop of sinning, begging for forgiveness, sinning, begging for forgiveness, etc. etc. etc. so that believers are regarded as non different from non-believers.

Welcome to the church of today. I see no difference in them and the world.

bugkiller

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to make our joy complete."

How many believers immersed in Jesus' Name , meeting regularly with other ekklesia as well,
experience daily "our fellowship with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" ???
If you know any, or more than a few, it is a miracle...

Clearly you wouldn't write this to someone who is already in Christ.

So, no, this is not correct. So many "believers" in Christ, do not know, have not heard nor seen, the "fellowship with the Father and with His Son" ,
do not even know to look for the experience of what the Apostles testify to (throughout the NEW TESTAMENT),
so
in other words,
yes, 1 John is to believers, every bit, and specifically, and on purpose,
including to believers who have not learned
or
who need to hear again
what is written to them, Breathed by the Spirit of YHWH,

so that as written, they may know what to expect, the hope and the joy of fellowship with the Father and with His Son Jesus,
which
is sorely lacking , and should oft be repeated,
today, everywhere, for believers trusting in the Father and in His Son.

 

[pescador]

Welcome to the church of today. I see no difference in them and the world.

bugkiller

Are you really condemning the body of Christ in today's society? Then you need to radically improve your discernment "eyesight".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

< shrugs > read the BIBLE if you want to.
If not, don't.

 

[Jan001]

Hi Jan, just wanted to say that 1 John 1:7 describes a Christian, 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 do not. They describe those who have never found the need to repent of their sins because they don't know Christ. They were followers of the false teachers of 1 John 4:1-3. A Christian no longer commits willful sins because they have been filled with Christ's Spirit giving them power over sin. The more we walk in His Spirit the easier it is to live a righteous life.

People can repent and become Christians and then later fall away from their faith due to their own sinful choices. They can then repent of their sins and become justified/righteous again. They can then sin again and fall away again. They can then repent and become righteous again. They can continue to sin and then repent until the moment they die. (I do not recommend this!) If they are in a righteous relationship with God at the moment of their death, they will be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. If they are not in a righteous relationship with God at the moment of their death, they will not be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. Their own unrepented sinful actions condemn them.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. rsv

Luke 12:35-37
Let your loins be girded and your lamps burning, 36 and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the marriage feast, so that they may open to him at once when he comes and knocks. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes; truly, I say to you, he will gird himself and have them sit at table, and he will come and serve them. rsv​

 

[Jan001]

Hating our brother or sister is a sin of the first order but it won't keep you out of God's kingdom. Once God adopts you as his child he will not throw you out. We are supposed to love our neighbor as our self, with no distinction. If you're not loving your neighbor you're not accepting the Holy Spirit's guidance.

God disinherits His unrepentant disobedient sons and daughters. They do not inherit eternal life.

Ephesians 5:5-7
Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not associate with them, rsv​

 

[pescador]

People can repent and become Christians and then later fall away from their faith due to their own sinful choices. They can then repent of their sins and become justified/righteous again. They can then sin again and fall away again. They can then repent and become righteous again. They can continue to sin and then repent until the moment they die. (I do not recommend this!) If they are in a righteous relationship with God at the moment of their death, they will be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. If they are not in a righteous relationship with God at the moment of their death, they will not be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. Their own unrepented sinful actions condemn them.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. rsv

Luke 12:35-37
Let your loins be girded and your lamps burning, 36 and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the marriage feast, so that they may open to him at once when he comes and knocks. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes; truly, I say to you, he will gird himself and have them sit at table, and he will come and serve them. rsv​

You said, "[Christians] can then repent of their sins and become justified/righteous again. They can then sin again and fall away again. They can then repent and become righteous again.

This is unscriptural nonsense. We are not playing some game with God. He has adopted us into his family for eternity; he will not throw us out because of mistakes that we, as imperfect people, are bound to make. We are dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Of course we should be watchful so that the devil cannot trick us into doing something that we are dead to: sinning. The Holy Spirit that God has given us is more powerful than the devil so we are not fooled if we listen to our guide.

Also, stop taking a couple of verses from a gospel that was written to Gentile unbelievers and applying it to Christians. We operate under an entirely different set of conditions! We are indeed waiting for the Messiah to come for us, but with joy not with fear.

It's time to put the Old Covenant to rest, isn't it?

 

[pescador]

God disinherits His unrepentant disobedient sons and daughters. They do not inherit eternal life.

Ephesians 5:5-7
Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not associate with them, rsv​

This is an extreme distortion of Scripture. Have you even read verse 7 of what you quoted? He is telling Christians not to associate with them (the sons of disobedience). Clearly Christians and the sons of disobedience are separate groups.

Paul then follows this section with, "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)".

Stop putting burdens on God-fearing Christians that love the Lord that are clearly meant for other people. God will surely judge people by their attitudes toward others, particularly other Christians. When he told us to love our neighbor, he meant it. Scaring people is the exact opposite.

 

[1stcenturylady]

People can repent and become Christians and then later fall away from their faith due to their own sinful choices. They can then repent of their sins and become justified/righteous again. They can then sin again and fall away again. They can then repent and become righteous again. They can continue to sin and then repent until the moment they die. (I do not recommend this!) If they are in a righteous relationship with God at the moment of their death, they will be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. If they are not in a righteous relationship with God at the moment of their death, they will not be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. Their own unrepented sinful actions condemn them.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. rsv

Luke 12:35-37
Let your loins be girded and your lamps burning, 36 and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the marriage feast, so that they may open to him at once when he comes and knocks. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes; truly, I say to you, he will gird himself and have them sit at table, and he will come and serve them. rsv​

There really shouldn't be such backsliding if you are filled with the Spirit. At least, not so many. It is not sin and repent, sin and repent, but don't sin in the first place, because you don't have to IF you have the Holy Spirit leading you.

1 John 1:7New King James Version (NKJV)

7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[bugkiller]

Are you really condemning the body of Christ in today's society? Then you need to radically improve your discernment "eyesight".

I do not know where you attend or fellowship. Where I attend the conversations are about anything except religious matters.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

People can repent and become Christians and then later fall away from their faith due to their own sinful choices. They can then repent of their sins and become justified/righteous again. They can then sin again and fall away again. They can then repent and become righteous again. They can continue to sin and then repent until the moment they die. (I do not recommend this!) If they are in a righteous relationship with God at the moment of their death, they will be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. If they are not in a righteous relationship with God at the moment of their death, they will not be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. Their own unrepented sinful actions condemn them.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. rsv

Luke 12:35-37
Let your loins be girded and your lamps burning, 36 and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the marriage feast, so that they may open to him at once when he comes and knocks. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes; truly, I say to you, he will gird himself and have them sit at table, and he will come and serve them. rsv​

Is religion insane and for the insane, or what? I used to be in its trap. Thank God for full deliverance. And was I ever stubborn about the issue.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

God disinherits His unrepentant disobedient sons and daughters. They do not inherit eternal life.

Ephesians 5:5-7
Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not associate with them, rsv​

This is not a reference to Christians.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You said, "[Christians] can then repent of their sins and become justified/righteous again. They can then sin again and fall away again. They can then repent and become righteous again.

This is unscriptural nonsense. We are not playing some game with God. He has adopted us into his family for eternity; he will not throw us out because of mistakes that we, as imperfect people, are bound to make. We are dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Of course we should be watchful so that the devil cannot trick us into doing something that we are dead to: sinning. The Holy Spirit that God has given us is more powerful than the devil so we are not fooled if we listen to our guide.

Also, stop taking a couple of verses from a gospel that was written to Gentile unbelievers and applying it to Christians. We operate under an entirely different set of conditions! We are indeed waiting for the Messiah to come for us, but with joy not with fear.

It's time to put the Old Covenant to rest, isn't it?

Way past time in my book.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

This is an extreme distortion of Scripture. Have you even read verse 7 of what you quoted? He is telling Christians not to associate with them (the sons of disobedience). Clearly Christians and the sons of disobedience are separate groups.

Paul then follows this section with, "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)".

Stop putting burdens on God-fearing Christians that love the Lord that are clearly meant for other people. God will surely judge people by their attitudes toward others, particularly other Christians. When he told us to love our neighbor, he meant it. Scaring people is the exact opposite.

A spiritual fire insurance policy is of no value. No one will ever collect on it. God does not issue them.

bugkiller

 

[pescador]

I do not know where you attend or fellowship. Where I attend the conversations are about anything except religious matters.

bugkiller

Then you should fellowship somewhere else. I wouldn't be in a church in which the Lord and the word of God aren't paramount. There are plenty such churches around.

 

[listed]

How many believers immersed in Jesus' Name , meeting regularly with other ekklesia as well,
experience daily "our fellowship with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" ???
If you know any, or more than a few, it is a miracle...

Probably as many or more than from your group. I really do not get into people's personal life. I do know one of my Christian friends who is in business gets asked if they're Christians. They display no outward evidence in the way of decor.

So, no, this is not correct. So many "believers" in Christ, do not know, have not heard nor seen, the "fellowship with the Father and with His Son" ,
do not even know to look for the experience of what the Apostles testify to (throughout the NEW TESTAMENT),
so
in other words,
yes, 1 John is to believers, every bit, and specifically, and on purpose,
including to believers who have not learned
or
who need to hear again
what is written to them, Breathed by the Spirit of YHWH,

so that as written, they may know what to expect, the hope and the joy of fellowship with the Father and with His Son Jesus,
which
is sorely lacking , and should oft be repeated,
today, everywhere, for believers trusting in the Father and in His Son.

You're saying Christians don't have fellowship with the Father and Jesus. I've got to question what you mean by what you said.

 

[listed]

People can repent and become Christians and then later fall away from their faith due to their own sinful choices. They can then repent of their sins and become justified/righteous again. They can then sin again and fall away again. They can then repent and become righteous again. They can continue to sin and then repent until the moment they die. (I do not recommend this!) If they are in a righteous relationship with God at the moment of their death, they will be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. If they are not in a righteous relationship with God at the moment of their death, they will not be approved worthy to inherit eternal life. Their own unrepented sinful actions condemn them.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. rsv

Luke 12:35-37
Let your loins be girded and your lamps burning, 36 and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the marriage feast, so that they may open to him at once when he comes and knocks. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes; truly, I say to you, he will gird himself and have them sit at table, and he will come and serve them. rsv​

You're talking about religious people and those Christians who are controlled by them.

 

[listed]

God disinherits His unrepentant disobedient sons and daughters. They do not inherit eternal life.

Ephesians 5:5-7
Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not associate with them, rsv​

Sons of disobedience aren't Christians.