Signs of the Times... what do you see?

[Revealing Times]

I'm not scoffing, I just don't think there's any special reasons to think Jesus' return is eminent, he could come back tomorrow, or in 10,000 years. Regardless of when he comes back, it is our job to be ready, not to predict when it is going to happen, scripture is not a puzzle to piece together, Biblical prophesy is symbolic, but is less about predicting the future and more about giving a message. If you read what Jesus does say about what the times will be like, there won't be anything abnormal about them and we should be ready because we won't see it coming, Matthew 24:36-51.

Sure there is. For all who say that the church has been looking for Jesus' return for 2000 years, I say there is no proof of this, unless it was misinformed people. The Third Temple has to be built before Jesus returns. Israel thus had to be reborn before Jesus could return (Ezekiel's Valley of dry bones prophecy.) We know Jesus Raptures the Church 7 years before the Second Coming. So both of these things had to happen for Jesus to call the Church home.

Also, Daniel stated knowledge would increase and people would be able to travel to and fro. That had to come to pass also. Jesus' coming t Rapture the Church is now eminent, it can't happen in 1000 years or 1000 years. It has to happen very shortly.

It is our job to also warn the sinners of their coming demise.
Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Matthew 24:32-51 is the Rapture
Matthew 24:16-26 is the time of troubles
Matthew 24:27-31 is the Second Coming
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think that would be awesome, but my feeling is that things are going to build up for a little while longer. From my understanding of prophetic scripture, the Antichrist makes a peace treaty with Israel at the beginning of the Tribulation. My belief is that is when they are allowed to start rebuilding the temple, at the middle of the Tribulation the Antichrist goes into the temple and proclaims that he is God.

They build the Temple just before or just after but its not really the Tribulation. Its the 70th Week. The first 3 1/2 years is the PEACE/SECURITY remember, but I get your point, its at the start of the Seven Year Period, just being a little more specific.

Israel rebuilds their Temple, they start out Sacrificing to God that which is not pleasing, since Jesus has died once and for all for our sins. Since the Two-Witnesses die at the 2nd Woe, just before the 3rd Woe, (which is the Seven Vials) and they preach for 1260 Days, we understand the difference in timing is only the amount of time the Seven Vials take to come to pass. Since the Two-witnesses are gone just before the Anti-Christ is destroyed, by a month or two (IMHO) then they MUST SHOW UP a month or two before the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem and thus becomes THE BEAST by conquering Israel.

So the Two-witnesses preach Jesus the Messiah to Israel, and I feel very confident that Israel repents, after all the 70th Week is about Israel Atoning. Thus all Israel is saved (not all Jews, but Israel as a Nation FINALLY turns back to God) and it fits with the Scriptures:

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Elijah is sent before the Day of the Lord (Wrath of God) starts, and that happens at the Mid-way point of the 70th Week. Or at the Abomination of Desolation. So Israel repents and turns back to God or accepts Jesus as their Messiah before the Abomination of Desolation comes to pass. (Zechariah 12:10 and Zechariah 13:1) This would explain why the Jewish peoples heed Jesus' words in Matthew 24:16, and Flee unto the Wilderness where God protects them for 1260 Days (Revelation chapter 12). Of course Elijah tells them what the coming weeks will bring, and warns them what to do, just as Jesus warned them 2000 years ago. Also God protects Israel in the Wilderness, after having turned His back on them for 2500 years, WHY? Because they REPENTED/ATONED just as the Daniel chapter 9 prophecy said they must do.

The Anti-Christ does defile the Temple, because Israel had already accepted Jesus as their Messiah. Jesus is my Daily Sacrifice.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't understand this whole rebuilding of the Temple when Jesus clearly made the temple meaningless. He no longer dwells in temples made by human hands so how then can the Anti-Christ go into a temple that isn't even HOLY simply because GOD isn't IN IT.

Israel rebuilds the Temple to worship their God, they are still blinded, in part (meaning some Jews are Messianic Jews) and thus do not understand in full. Elijah is sent after the Rapture, and turns Israel back to God.

 

[JingshenBianxi]

Matthew 24:32-51 is the Rapture

Matthew 24:9 - Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

care to explain what Jesus was talking about here?..cause it sounds like we don't avoid a tribulation...yet a tribulation is what we will have to endure.

 

[parousia70]

Since we don't know who was there any speculation is futile. If some Jews of all nations where there was a substantial population of Jews were there, that would fit the all nations thing.

Again, proving even you allow for "All nations" to mean something other than "ALL" Nations.

FalseThere is a difference between you ignorantly insinuating not all nations with Jews were represented in Acts..

Please show me where I have insinuated any such thing, or retract the accusation.

I have always agreed that all nations WITH JEWS were represented.
We agree! Hurray~!

The issue again is that you insinuated that in scripture, "ALL nations" must mean every nation on earth, period.
I have shown that you don't even believe this. So I find it rather bizarre that you are still attempting to require that I believe it when the term is used in other places besides Acts.. the "all Nations" passage in Acts represents the RULE, not the exception.

and a blatant rejection of all the things in Revelation and elsewhere that HAVE to be future.

Only if you ignore, spiritualize, allegorize, metaphorize or otherwise turn this text into a worthless fable:

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. (Revelation 1:1-3)

On major issues of basic prophecy, you may not try to make the bible worthless fables...no.

How am I doing that in your opinion?
I find none of it worthless or fableish...

God has not judged the world yet, or started to rule! All Israel has noy yet been saved at the end looking at Him whom they pierced coming. We have not seen the son of man in the clouds coming to earth yet. None of the worldwide plagues and judgments of Revelation have happened yet.

As I have shown painstakingly time and again, and you have provided nothing scriptural to refute, this is all apocalyptic language that the prophets used time and time again to discuss the fall of a nation or empire.

The cloud-coming of Revelation 1:7 that "every eye would see" is shown in Revelation 14:14-20 to be an event that occurs in the heavenly realms. As the passage reveals, Christ's actions and commands in the heavenlies result in various tribulation-period disasters that transpire on earth. Simply put, Revelation 14:14-20 is the cloud-coming that "every eye would see." This is significant, for St. John is not describing the coming of Christ as some visual spectacular with cumulus clouds in the skies overhead, but as the coming of Yahweh himself, making Christ equal with the Father.

We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

These are just a few examples of the Father's Old-Testament comings, but there are many others: Yahweh came down and shot arrows at Saul and his armies, shaking the earth's foundations and the heavens at that time (2 Sam 22:8-16); Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30), and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon's King Nebuchadnezzar (Ez 32:1-16). The Father entered into judgments with Egypt and Assyria in a spectacular coming in Isaiah 31. Habakkuk's depiction of Jehovah's coming at Mt. Sinai is nothing less than apocalyptic (Hab 3:3-16).

Were any of these OT comings visual, physical/literal appearances of Yahweh as the prophets describe in metaphorical prophetic language? Of course not (Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12)--the Hebrews understood that no human could ever see Yahweh and live (Exodus 33:20).

Importantly, these comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34).

As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation.


Game, Set, Match.

 

[jgr]

So you are wrong then. The only reference there to anything done in ignorance was this..

"ignorantly insinuating.."

If someone is claimed to be "ignorantly insinuating" something, then the implication that the individual himself or herself is ignorant is inescapable. To characterize someone as "ignorant" either directly or by implication, is unacceptable in civil discourse.

 

[Revealing Times]

Matthew 24:9 - Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

care to explain what Jesus was talking about here?..cause it sounds like we don't avoid a tribulation...yet a tribulation is what we will have to endure.

I have done an exegesis on the whole chapter Matthew 24. The whole 2000 year period is Christians going through trials and tribulations. I think people confuse this with TROUBLES LIKE NEVER BEFORE OR EVER AGAIN.....Just because we have a period of time called the "worst troubles ever", doesn't mean that all Christians will not face trials and tribulation, to wit:

John 15:18 If the world hates you, you know that it hated me before it hated you.

John 16:33 I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!"

So verse nine is Jesus telling his disciples their own coming fate. Most would die for Jesus' names sake, only a few like John did not get murdered before he died a natural death.

The "so called" coming TRIBULATION doesn't come until after the Rapture. Notice Israel flees Judea (Matthew 24:16) then Jesus tells them it will be a TIME OF TROUBLE like never before in Matthew 24:21, and Jesus said unless those days be shortened (Matt. 24:22) no flesh would survive. Matthew 1-13 has nothing to do with the end times. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 that the word would have to be preached unto all the world, THEN the end would come.

After the troubles, there is the Second Coming in Matthew 24:27-31.

 

[dad]

Again, proving even you allow for "All nations" to mean something other than "ALL" Nations.

The spirit of the text is what matters. I feel that all nations is a great way to describe the attendees. If you have reason to claim that natios with Jewish populations at that time were not represented there, show the evidence now.

Please show me where I have insinuated any such thing, or retract the accusation.

You just claimed in this post all nations means something else. Retract that accusation. Or wear it.

I have always agreed that all nations WITH JEWS were represented.
We agree! Hurray~!

Great. I have lost interest in your attempt to use metaphors in the bible to mean that nothing is real basically in prophecy. Maybe you should change the word prophecy to history for your intents and purposes?

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. (Revelation 1:1-3)

Right, and even nearer now! Some of the things started to happen a long time ago. The degradation of the churches etc. The bulk of the book has not happened yet and when it starts, it will be quickly finished.

How am I doing that in your opinion?
I find none of it worthless or fableish...

If incredible events to come are blown off and waved away as already finished, that makes the bible worthless.

As I have shown painstakingly time and again, and you have provided nothing scriptural to refute, this is all apocalyptic language that the prophets used time and time again to discuss the fall of a nation or empire.

Forget language. Look at content.

The cloud-coming of Revelation 1:7 that "every eye would see" is shown in Revelation 14:14-20 to be an event that occurs in the heavenly realms.

Those that know prophesy know that is not true, but He will set His feet on the mount of Olives when He comes. He will judge and destroy the wicked when He comes. Etc. 'Some event in the heavenlies to show some supposed point' is nonsense.

We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

Jesus is the God of the Old Testament...Yahweh. You seen Jesus on a fast cloud?? Really? No, that is prophesy.

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

Ask yourself when is that day?

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

Yes He was against some nations. His judments were seen...not Jesus flying on a cloud or angel!

Importantly, these comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34).

If you don't even recognize Jesus in the OT, it is no wonder one gets muddled up.

As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation.

That is for anyone, not Israel only.

One needs to see the Living God in all the ages past, present and future. There are more prophesies about the return of Christ than the first coming.

The events of Revelation could never have happened yet. The only way anyone could claim they did, is to reject any reality in the book of Revelation and the bible in general.

 

[dad]

If someone is claimed to be "ignorantly insinuating" something, then the implication that the individual himself or herself is ignorant is inescapable. To characterize someone as "ignorant" either directly or by implication, is unacceptable in civil discourse.

When an argument is based on not knowing it is an argument from ignorance. Defending one is worse.

 

[parousia70]

To characterize someone as "ignorant" either directly or by implication, is unacceptable in civil discourse.

You must be new here.

 

[PollyJetix]

I don't understand this whole rebuilding of the Temple when Jesus clearly made the temple meaningless. He no longer dwells in temples made by human hands so how then can the Anti-Christ go into a temple that isn't even HOLY simply because GOD isn't IN IT.

I believe the REVELATION may just in fact be the AntiChrist being revealed in all those who accepted him in their OWN TEMPLE..aka..body..and all these " men " will say they are GOD.

Shrugs..just a thought.

I have wondered much about the same thing.
I remember how those who studied the Scriptures before the first coming of Christ, had figured it backward, forward, and sideways... they were NOT expecting him to come like he did!

And I have wondered if the apostate church of the end times will be the Temple that is supposed to be dedicated to God, and yet who welcomes the Antichrist as if he were Jesus himself?
You know, the "great deception" ...

And we know that Islamic prophecies say that when the Imam Madhi comes, he will appear riding on a white horse, and he will be accompanied by "Jesus", who will tell everyone that He lied when He said He was the Son of God... and will tell everyone to follow Islam and worship Allah.

It fits.

In fact, I know a Unitarian who told me her church was studying the goodness of other religions, and she was so excited to hear about the wonderful man Mohammad was! She mentally blocked me out when I asked her about the 6-year-old wife he took, etc. She was a social worker for the State, and worked at rescuing girls such as that young girl... And she was so blinded by the apostasy of her "church", that she actually replied, "Well, compared to the standards of the times, he was unusually good to her."

I can see this happening to many such apostate churches of today.
We see what's happening about gay marriage. And those who accept gay marriage also push acceptance of Islam as an equally good religion. They don't believe in the inspiration of Scripture. They are already so apostate they are ripe picking for an Islamic Antichrist with a false "Jesus" prophet sidekick.

It's a sign of the times.
And the Temple just may be the apostate church, because Ephesians 2:20-22 says the church is built together to be a Temple. 1 Corinthians 3:9 through 1 Corinthians 3:17 says the same thing.

 

[keras]

2 Peter 1:19-21 ...you will do well to attend to the messages of the prophets, their words shine like a lamp in a dark place. But first note this; no prophesy is a matter for private interpretation. The prophets spoke by the Holy Spirit, as messengers of God.
We cannot make up our own interpretation. We must let the Bible interpret itself. Others should be able to compare Scriptures for proof and verification.
With the world situation as it is now, we can see how some prophecy can and will be fulfilled.

The Apostle Paul says that due to a believer’s knowledge of prophecy, they are not in darkness regarding things to come. This accounts for the inability of the multitudes to understand what is written, for they do not belong to the group which Paul calls the children of Light. Without faith, an unbeliever is unable to comprehend its meaning.
1 Corinthians 14:22b….prophecy is given for not for unbelievers, but for believers.

Because the Church and its leaders generally ignore the prophetic word, they are blind to the meaning of the signs of the times. This is one reason so many have turned away from the acceptance of the Word of God and multitudes are today without belief. Even true and faithful believers in God, generally have no real idea of future events. They simply trust God to save them, which is all very well, but shows a careless attitude and treats a large portion of God’s word as superfluous.
God’s purpose in allowing uncertainty as to the full meaning and understanding of prophecy, before its fulfilment, is because all people- despite skepticism and unbelief, would be compelled to accept the evidence of the revelations. The doubters are looking for a sign- no sign will be given them, but those who walk by faith will finally see and recognize prophecy coming to pass as predicted.

Earnest and sincere discussion of the prophetic word should bring spiritual stimulation and strengthen our faith. We need to know what the prophets have said, so that we can be in a position to use that information intelligently and not be surprised at what will happen.
Prophecy has not been given to men to make them prophets, but for the purpose of confirming God’s word and thus enable everyone who walks by faith, to know the truth of what God plans for our future.

Daniel 12:9-10 ....these words are to be kept secret and sealed until the time of the end.
....but the wicked will continue in wickedness and none of them will understand; only the wise leaders will understand
Commentaries say: The wicked are the rebellious. The wise are the teachers or leaders. And those who do teach and lead, need to be very sure that what they say is correct, because they will face a more severe judgement. James 3:1

 

[parousia70]

I have done an exegesis on the whole chapter Matthew 24.

So have I.
It can be found here:
Matthew 24, verse by verse - Fulfilled

I think people confuse this with TROUBLES LIKE NEVER BEFORE OR EVER AGAIN...Jesus tells them it will be a TIME OF TROUBLE like never before in Matthew 24:21

People are confused about that, no doubt.

Scripture tells us in 1 Kings 3:12 that there was "no king like Solomon before or after him." Such statements are then repeated in 2 Kings 18:5-6 of Hezekiah and in 2 Kings 23:25 of Josiah. Obviously, they can't all be the greatest King there ever was nor ever shall be. (And, of course, Jesus Christ surpasses even Solomon -- Matt. 12:42).

Furthermore, this same Old Testament idea of "never will be again" is employed of various judgments that have already been fulfilled such as locusts in Egypt (Ex. 10:12-15; cf. Joel 1:1-4), a cry in Egypt (Ex. 11:6), and judgment upon O.T. Israel (Ez. 5:9; Joel 2:2).

The Ezekiel 5:9 passage is especially instructive to us, for it states that the Babylonian conquest of Israel (sixth-century BC) would be the greatest judgment God had ever brought upon a nation, past or future.

If you can point me to the scriptural teaching that says "ever was nor ever shall be", when used by the Prophets of the OT is Hyperbolic, but when Jesus uses them it's literal, I'd be happy to examine it.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 that the word would have to be preached unto all the world, THEN the end would come.

And the Holy Spirit, through Paul, affirmed that this was fulfilled no later than the mid 60's AD:

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith;

I love when scripture interprets scripture.

 

[Revealing Times]

So have I.
It can be found here:
Matthew 24, verse by verse - Fulfilled

I looked over that, and its way off kilter, imho. Instead of of getting this thread off track maybe I will post my Matthew 24 exegesis and go from there.

And the Holy Spirit, through Paul, affirmed that was fulfilled no later than the mid 60's AD:

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

This is an UNTRUTH.....Paul couldn't have seen the Gospel preached unto all the world. The New World wasn't discovered until the 13-15 Centuries. Of course Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander as the LEOPARD were both said to have conquered the WHOLE EARTH !! Which only means the Translation was not quite right or the writers actually though it was all the WORLD.

Jesus though, being God knew what THE WHOLE WORLD MEANT !! So the Gospel had to be preached unto ALL THE WORLD, then the end will come.

 

[Douggg]

So that means the Chaldeans, the Medes, The Aztec, the Hopi, the Babylonians, etc...
Were they all reborn in 1967?

no, I think the referral is to the peoples, cities, nations in Ezekiel 38 of God/Magog.

Jerusalem (a city) as the fig tree and Israel (a nation) as the fig tree, keep in mind are preliminary to the beginning of the 70th week. Which Gog/Magog is right before the 70th week as well. So those peoples, cities, nations listed in Ezekiel 38 are the other trees, imo.

 

[jgr]

You must be new here.

Yeah, still somewhat afflicted with idealism. But, as I said, I've been tagged as insane and idiotic already myself, so there's plenty of realism as well. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Douggg]

Not up to me to prove anything. I've said multiple times that it isn't up to us to try to predict when Jesus will return. Again, you are claiming that the fig tree stands for Jerusalem, that a generation is 70 years. Others have made other claims over the centuries; thus far all have been wrong. You might have picked the correct trigger or, like others, you might be wrong.

The issue is what did Jesus instruct regarding his return when he gave the parable of a fig tree. Jesus said "learn" the parable of a fig tree. So it is up to followers of Christ to learn it. Not an option.

If other people have been wrong, you need to analyze specifically why, and make an effort to apply the parable correctly - which means identifying the fig tree and the length of a generation.

Anyone can sit back and say that others have been wrong - that's a no brainer. But that is not Jesus's instructions - to identify that others have been wrong. There is a correct understanding or else Jesus would not have given the parable of the fig tree and say learn it.

 

[jgr]

Matt. 24:6-8

A few minor additions to parousia70's excellent exegesis:

· 50,000 Jews killed in Seleucia
· 20,000 killed in a battle between Jews and Syrians in Caesarea
· Tacitus records “failure in the crops, and a famine consequent thereupon”
· Suetonius documents a pestilence from which “there died no less than 30,000 persons”
· Josephus records pestilences in Babylonia in 40 AD
· Tacitus records pestilences in Italy in 66 AD
· Colossae, Laodicea, and Hierapolis devastated by earthquake in 60 AD
· Pompeii significantly damaged by earthquake in 63 AD
· Tacitus records earthquakes at Rome and Apamea
· Philostratus records earthquakes in Crete and at Smyrna, Miletus, Chios and Samos

Abundant evidence to satisfy Christ's predictions.

 

[Archivist]

The issue is what did Jesus instruct regarding his return when he gave the parable of a fig tree. Jesus said "learn" the parable of a fig tree. So it is up to followers of Christ to learn it. Not an option.

Actually Jesus said that we should learn a lesson from the fig tree. He did not say that we should "learn the parable of a fig tree."

If other people have been wrong, you need to analyze specifically why, and make an effort to apply the parable correctly - which means identifying the fig tree and the length of a generation.

Anyone can sit back and say that others have been wrong - that's a no brainer. But that is not Jesus's instructions - to identify that others have been wrong. There is a correct understanding or else Jesus would not have given the parable of the fig tree and say learn it.

And you have not identified why your interpretation is right while others were wrong. In fact others in this thread have pointed out that there are flwas in what you are saying.

 

[CuriousWes]

I have wondered much about the same thing.
I remember how those who studied the Scriptures before the first coming of Christ, had figured it backward, forward, and sideways... they were NOT expecting him to come like he did!

And I have wondered if the apostate church of the end times will be the Temple that is supposed to be dedicated to God, and yet who welcomes the Antichrist as if he were Jesus himself?
You know, the "great deception" ...

I can see this happening to many such apostate churches of today.
We see what's happening about gay marriage. And those who accept gay marriage also push acceptance of Islam as an equally good religion. They don't believe in the inspiration of Scripture. They are already so apostate they are ripe picking for an Islamic Antichrist with a false "Jesus" prophet sidekick.

It's a sign of the times.
And the Temple just may be the apostate church, because Ephesians 2:20-22 says the church is built together to be a Temple. 1 Corinthians 3:9 through 1 Corinthians 3:17 says the same thing.

Good insight.

It seems that much unnecessary contention arises from forcing scripture into either a literal meaning or a spiritual meaning when it very likely has both. The old covenant was natural, requiring outward conformity or compliance. The new covenant was spiritual. It addressed the heart condition. When Jesus talked about "understanding" He was referring to a spiritual meaning, not the obvious natural one. This can be seen in John 3:9-10, Matthew 15:10-11, Matthew 16:11 and so on.

So when Jesus says in Matthew 24:15 "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)" it very likely has a spiritual implication to go along with the natural much like what you stated in your post with the apostate church. The natural fulfillment of that verse doesn't require a rebuilt Solomon-like temple. It could be fulfilled by a portable tabernacle. Consider Daniel 11:45

God's natural elect is Israel. His spiritual elect are those who walk in the truth. This can be seen in Revelation 12:13-17.

 

[Douggg]

Actually Jesus said that we should learn a lesson from the fig tree. He did not say that we should "learn the parable of a fig tree."

From the KJV....

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

And you have not identified why your interpretation is right while others were wrong. In fact others in this thread have pointed out that there are flwas in what you are saying.

You have never listed exactly what interpretation you are talking about. Give the exact case and the details of it. You want me to tell you why someone else is wrong, without even identifying the person and what the basis of his/her interpretation was? You have to give specifics, what was that person's identification of the fig tree and what was the length of a generation?

 

[parousia70]

I looked over that, and its way off kilter, imho.

Well, everything in it is proven through scripture and history, but feel free to post your rebuttal in that thread. I believe it is still open for replies.

This is an UNTRUTH....

Wow. Ok. Just so our readers understand quite clearly, your contention is the apostle Paul, infallibly inspired by the Holy Spirit, taught an untruth to his flocks, multiple times, in these passages.

Wow.
What else do you believe Paul taught that was untrue? Doctrines of grace through faith? Sanctification? Admonitions against homosexuality? Are those also untruths that Paul taught? How can we be sure of anything he taught If he was so glaringly wrong about something as paramount to the faith as the spread of the Gospel?

Paul couldn't have seen the Gospel preached unto all the world.

And yet the Holy Spirit inspired him to teach that it was.

When faced with discerning between these two polar opposite positions, fallible internet poster "Revealing Times" and the Divinly inspired apostle Paul, my money's on Paul, every time. Sorry bro.

Jesus though, being God knew what THE WHOLE WORLD MEANT !!.

And somehow Jesus forgot to mention this to the Holy Spirit? So the Holy Spirit could inspire Paul to teach this error because the Holy Spirit did not know what the whole world meant?

OK… I know I wouldn't want to defend that position, but you're the boss of your own opinion so if that's what you think then that's what you think. Good luck with that.