Signs of the Times... what do you see?

Matt. 24:35-37, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

My feeling has always been that if Jesus does not know when He will return, then it isn't up to us to try to predict his coming. It will happen when it happens. Maybe next year. Maybe in 100 years. Maybe in 1000 years. Maybe in 10,000 years.

Archivist said:

Matt. 24:35-37, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall not pass away. 36But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

My feeling has always been that if Jesus does not know when He will return, then it isn't up to us to try to predict his coming. It will happen when it happens. Maybe next year. Maybe in 100 years. Maybe in 1000 years. Maybe in 10,000 years.

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Jesus gave us Revelation, and said "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

One is blessed to look for signs and understand them best to his or her knowledge.

HenryM said:

Jesus gave us Revelation, and said "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

One is blessed to look for signs and understand them best to his or her knowledge.

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And people have been looking at signs and predicting that the end times are near for a very long time.

Archivist said:

And people have been looking at signs and predicting that the end times are near for a very long time.

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Observe that your reply is not and cannot be aimed at me, because I am not the originator of words I've quoted.

HenryM said:

Observe that your reply is not and cannot be aimed at me, because I am not the originator of words I've quoted.

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I wasn't aiming my reply at anyone. I simply replied to you post and offered a general statement.

The following are all end-time predictions. A few of these are in the future, most passed without the end coming: List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events - Wikipedia

Jesus gave us Revelation, and said "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

One is blessed to look for signs and understand them best to his or her knowledge.

HenryM said:

What is your calculation for start of tribulation? 2022?

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Thereabouts. For the beginning of the last seven years. The Great Trib is just the last 3 1/2 years.

HenryM said:

I am not sure that the day we would not know is the Day of the God's wrath. Jesus says in Revelation that He can return "like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you". And in Matthew 24 "that day or hour no one knows" comes after describing Jesus' coming.

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We are plainly told that the last 1260 days commences with the Anti-Christ [beast] sitting in the Temple and ends with Jesus Returning and destroying his army at Armageddon. The glorious Return is not, therefore, a Day that will come as a thief.
The Day that will surprise and shock the world, is the Lord's Day of wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis, as prophesied over 100 times. Isaiah 24:1-13

Another Lazarus said:

Everyday dozens thousands of babies are born, will God wait forever until all these babies understand the Gospel ?

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Well, it's not called the "Everlasting Gospel" for nothing......

parousia70 said:

Hebrews 1:1-2

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When in times past God spoke to our forefathers, He spoke in many and various ways through His prophets. But in this final age, He has spoken to us through His Son......Revised English Bible
In this final age, obviously the first century was NOT the last days at all, as we plainly know.
Your agenda, Parousia, is detrimental and of no help to people who are genuinely trying to understand the truth of God's plans for His people at this critical point of mans history.

keras said:

When in times past God spoke to our forefathers, He spoke in many and various ways through His prophets. But in this final age, He has spoken to us through His Son......Revised English Bible
In this final age, obviously the first century was NOT the last days at all, as we plainly know.

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Please link me to that translation. I couldn't find it... the ERV I found has "at the end of these days" as the translation.

Your agenda, Parousia, is detrimental and of no help to people who are genuinely trying to understand the truth of God's plans for His people at this critical point of mans history.

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Thank you for sharing your opinion.
I disagree with it of course, and feel it is your agenda that is doing said detriment.

parousia70 said:

Please link me to that translation. I couldn't find it... the ERV I found has "at the end of these days" as the translation.

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The Revised English Bible, Oxford University Press 1989, is a complete re-translation of the Bible using all available sources, by team of expert linguists, into modern English, with the emphasis on the correct meaning of what is being conveyed. It never became very popular and there is no free copy available on line, as far as I know.

Whether a version says 'last days' or 'final age', matters not; what is a fact: the world has continued in it's fallen state for nearly another 2 millennia. Thinking that the end came in the first century, is sheer foolishness and leaves people without a clue of what God actually will do when He takes back control of His creation.

PollyJetix said:

I'm not looking for debate here.
I would rather we don't debate. I don't care if you are pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.
Jesus said we ought to be watching for His coming, and He told us to watch for the signs.

What have you seen recently, that looks to you like a sign of the end?

Something that excited me today, was when I read about what the Jewish year 5777 means, to rabbis.
5 is the number of Grace.
And 7 is the number of completion.
And 3 repetitions means it's the hand of God at work.

Putting it all together, 5777 means, according to many Jewish rabbis, the year that God completes the work of Grace!

Ephesians 3:2-6 tells us that we are now living in the dispensation of Grace, which is the Gentiles being included in the body of Christ.

Of course, Jesus said there is a time in the future, when the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. Luke 21:24

And Paul said in Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved...

Could this be the year? I am not setting a date... but I'm just wondering.
Watching, waiting, and wondering.

I remember how that in 1917, the Balfour Declaration was issued, opening the land of Palestine to Jewish settlement.
And exactly 50 years later, in the 6-day war, Israel gained control of Jerusalem.

This year, 2017... the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar... is exactly 50 years later.
I'm sitting on the edge of my seat!

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The numbers game comes from kabbalah aka Jewish occultist sources. as such it does not have any creditably.
the other things you brought up are simply interpretations of history.

keras said:

The Revised English Bible, Oxford University Press 1989, is a complete re-translation of the Bible using all available sources, by team of expert linguists, into modern English, with the emphasis on the correct meaning of what is being conveyed. It never became very popular and there is no free copy available on line, as far as I know.

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So we just have to take your word for it. How convenient.

Whether a version says 'last days' or 'final age', matters not;

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Demonstrably incorrect.

One Different word can change the meaning of an entire passage.... which is exactly why you brought it up to do.

Can you share which of the other passages that ALL other available translations use the term "last days" are rendered as "FINAL AGE"?

Are they all rendered that way, Or is that conveniently the only one?

If it's the only one, then it clearly shows the translators futurist bias being imposed onto the text.

what is a fact: the world has continued in it's fallen state for nearly another 2 millennia.

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Ok...

Thinking that the end came in the first century, is sheer foolishness

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The end of the world perhaps, but not the end of the age.

The Mosaic Covenant age, the age that Jesus and the apostles were born into and lived during the "last days" of, did indeed end in the 1st century with the destruction of the Temple and removal of Mosaic Judaism from the planet forever, and it is sheer foolishness to deny it.

and leaves people without a clue of what God actually will do when He takes back control of His creation.

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God is in control now.

parousia70 said:

The end of the world perhaps, but not the end of the age.

The Mosaic Covenant age, the age that Jesus and the apostles were born into and lived during the "last days" of, did indeed end in the 1st century with the destruction of the Temple and removal of Mosaic Judaism from the planet forever, and it is sheer foolishness to deny it..

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Oh? If the last days ended what are these talking about?


Ac 2:17 -Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
2Ti 3:1 -This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.


Heb 1:2 -Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

2Pe 3:3 - Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Also, are you saying no one has practiced or claimed to practice 'Mosaic Judaism' in the last few thousand years??

dad said:

Oh? If the last days ended what are these talking about?


Ac 2:17 -Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

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"These last days" was a then present reality for the writer of Acts, was it not? He is clearly testifying that the last days were underway during Christs earthly ministry.

2Ti 3:1

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-This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.


Heb 1:2 -Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

2Pe 3:3 - Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

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Plenty of perilous times and folks walking after their own lusts In the "These last days" of the Temple era leading up to its desolation.

Also, are you saying no one has practiced or claimed to practice 'Mosaic Judaism' in the last few thousand years??

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That is precisely what I am saying.

Though They may claim it, the fact is Today's Jews don't follow the mandatory feasts of Moses and haven't for 2000 years. Why don't they do what Moses commanded? Because today's "jews" don't follow the Old Covenant whatsoever. Just read Leviticus and ask yourself, "Do any Jews today do this"?

I can assure you no human being alive today can even do 50% of what the law requires, and what they did prior to AD70.

parousia70 said:

"These last days" was a then present reality for the writer of Acts, was it not? He is clearly testifying that the last days were underway during Christs earthly ministry.

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No that doesn't work. It says the last days shall come! Or..there shall (future) come in the last days.....

And how about this, you think this was fulfilled in Jesus' day?

Mic 4:1 - But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Plenty of perilous times and folks walking after their own lusts In the "These last days" of the Temple era leading up to its desolation.

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I don't see the elements burning with fervent heat and the heavens pass??

2 Peter 3:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

That is precisely what I am saying.

Though They may claim it, the fact is Today's Jews don't follow the mandatory feasts of Moses and haven't for 2000 years. Why don't they do what Moses commanded? Because today's "jews" don't follow the Old Covenant whatsoever. Just read Leviticus and ask yourself, "Do any Jews today do this"?

I can assure you no human being alive today can even do 50% of what the law requires, and what they did prior to AD70.

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I think I can assure you the Pharisees didn't either!

dad said:

No that doesn't work. It says the last days shall come! Or..there shall (future) come in the last days.....

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Then why do both the writer of Hebrews and The writer of Acts call them THESE last days in the context of the time of Jesus' earthly ministry? "In THESE LAST DAYS He HAS SPOKEN to us by His Son"

And how about this, you think this was fulfilled in Jesus' day?

Mic 4:1 - But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

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St Paul sure seemed to think so:
Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels.

My money is on Paul being correct.

I don't see the elements burning with fervent heat and the heavens pass??

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Well, Elements is used 7 times in the NT and in each of those 7, it is used to refer to the basic, rudimentary, fundamental principles of the Mosaic Law, not the periodic table as you seem to insist. Those Biblical "elements" did indeed burn with fervent heat with the Temple.

As for the heavens passing, they were the heavens that God created in Isaiah 51:16 when He brought the Hebrew people out of Egypt and formed them into a new nation under the Mosaic covenant:
And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

THIS "planting of the heavens and founding of earth" took place when He brought the hebrew people into the wilderness, gave the Law and fromed them into His covenant nation. He Planted the heavens and founded the earth, that is, Brought forth order and government.

This is the Heaven and earth of mosaic Judiasm that Peter says would burn with fervant heat. This passage has nothing to do with the fate of the Planet and cosmos, which God has established forever.

(What do you see?) "PollyJetix said:

I'm not looking for debate here.
I would rather we don't debate. I don't care if you are pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.
Jesus said we ought to be watching for His coming, and He told us to watch for the signs.

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To me, I think I see a world that has already passed its Autumn and is heading rapidly for the depths of its Winter. While I may have my own feelings on other things, I make no claim for example to have cracked Revelation and as far as I am able, try to leave things at this more general type of feeling.

HenryM said:

Jesus gave us Revelation, and said "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

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and it's been 2000 years.....Was He wrong?