Signs and Wonders Essential

[Steve Petersen]

Biblically speaking, signs, wonders and miracles are an endorsement/ proof of the truth of the message being preached:

John 10:25, john 14:11, Acts 14:3, Rom15:18&19, Heb2:2-4

Deuteronomy 13

 

[stuart lawrence]

Deuteronomy 13

The point is made concerning Christians, and the scriptures given show signs, wonders & miracles were given to endorse/ show the message preached was from God.

 

[Alithis]

To unbelievers, no sign is enough. To believers, no sign is necessary.

It's a cute "saying" but not truth.

 

[Kiterius]

It's a cute "saying" but not truth.

We disagree.

 

[Alithis]

We disagree.

And why? Because I have seen how so many eyes well up with tears as the power of God heals them as A SIGN accompanying the good news. It is simply not true that no sign is enough ..sometimes the very smallest healing melts the heart and opens the soil to receive the Gospel .

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

To unbelievers, no sign is enough. To believers, no sign is necessary.

So, how do you go about convincing unbelievers that the gospel is the truth when they won't accept the Bible or the points you are trying to make with them? And how do you define "sign" in the context that you are using it?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

And why? Because I have seen how so many eyes well up with tears as the power of God heals them as A SIGN accompanying the good news. It is simply not true that no sign is enough ..sometimes the very smallest healing melts the heart and opens the soil to receive the Gospel .

What the guy is doing is using the statement of Jesus when He said that "no sign shall be given to this generation except what happened to Jonah". The type of sign that Jesus was referring to was not the signs, wonders and miracles that the Early Church prayed for and received to supplement the preaching of the gospel. What the fella needs to do is to go into the Jewish background to see what the Jews were expecting at the coming of their messiah. There were certain signs that they believed accompanied the messiah and that was what they were asking Jesus for, and He told them that the account of Jonah was the only sign that was available to them. Reminds me of what God said to Job: "Who is he that darkens counsel without knowledge?"

 

[Kiterius]

So, how do you go about convincing unbelievers that the gospel is the truth when they won't accept the Bible or the points you are trying to make with them? And how do you define "sign" in the context that you are using it?

I believe signs was defined in the opening post of this thread. Oh, and I don't convince unbelievers that the gospel is the truth.

 

[Alithis]

But God does.

 

[Kiterius]

But God does.

Yes, the Spirit of God does. She calls us to participate in the missio Dei, but she is the one who actually convinces unbelievers.

 

[Alithis]

The wolves are every where oscar..

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I believe signs was defined in the opening post of this thread. Oh, and I don't convince unbelievers that the gospel is the truth.

So when they brush you off, you just walk away defeated?

But God does.

Yep. And He brings conviction of sin through signs wonders and miracles accompanying the preaching of the Gospel. One of the greatest miracles is that when a preacher is preaching in the Spirit, the listeners are cut to the heart like they were on the Day of Pentecost. That's what happened when Jonathan Edwards and Charles Finney preached in the power of the Holy Spirit. Unbelievers came under such conviction that they held on to the pillars of the church for dear life because they were afraid of sliding into hell! Finney just walked through a textile factory and all the women workers started weeping under conviction. That is a sign and a wonder, along with healing and casting out of demons. But that sort of Holy Spirit power comes only to those who spend much time in God's presence crying out for souls. John Knox agonised before God saying, "Give me Scotland or I die!" When he preached, people came under conviction and got saved.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Deuteronomy 13

This reference was for our education but not written directly to us. It was written to the Jews. New Testament prophecy is quite different from the Old Testament because the OT prophets spoke as representing the direct voice of God to the nation, and so this carried a greater weight of responsibility. New Testament prophets do not, or should not, represent themselves as the direct voice of God; they allow those who can judge their prophecies to determine whether what they have said is consistent with the gospel that has been revealed to the Church by the Holy Spirit. Also, the false prophets of the Old Testament were those who encourage idol worship and immorality saying at the same time that God would keep them safe from their enemies. It also has nothing to do with miracles of healing and deliverance that was characteristic of the Early Church preaching of the gospel, and should be characteristic of modern day preaching. A course in Hermeneutics would assist you to ensure that you quote Scripture correctly, instead of twisting it to support useless cessationist garbage.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The wolves are every where oscar..

Quite true. They are the ones who divide and tear the flock through garbage doctrines, useless talking, and twisting of Scripture to support their religious fantasies.

 

[Biblicist]

I have been re-reading the Gospels and Acts and have become convinced that signs and wonders are essential to the preaching of the gospel, and normal Christian experience. I have come to believe that churches that do not advocate signs and wonders as the foundation of the involvement of the Holy Spirit, are disobeying important commands of Jesus and are actually dead when they mistakenly think they are alive churches.

The problem is that after the 5th Century, the Church was being ruled by leaders influenced more by religious demons than by the Holy Spirit. This is why for over 1000 years, there were no signs and wonders in the established Church, except for a few small movements that were outlawed and destroyed by that established Church. There have been some major revivals in the last 300 years that have gradually restored a belief that signs and wonders are a part of the gospel, but in many cases, it has been treated as an optional extra, rather than the foundation of it.

The majority of evangelical churches have depended on the words of the gospel and quoting the Bible to try and get people to accept Christ as Saviour. There are thousands of books printed on how to do evangelism, but I have not found one that teaches that getting sinners saved is near impossible without accompanying signs and wonders. Yet, when signs and wonders have been present, thousands upon thousands have willingly come to Christ. We saw this in the book of Acts, especially when people were healed. During the healing revival of the 1940s and 50s, successful healing evangelists drew crowds of people to their tent revivals.

The main reason why people don't experience signs and wonders in our current churches is that either the churches refuse to believe that they are the foundation of the preaching of the gospel, or that they do not apply in today's churches.

The churches that believe in the signs and wonders give just lip service to the "doctrine" of it in their articles of faith, but they don't believe that it can and will actually happen in their meetings. This is why thousands of people are ministered to for healing, and very few, if any, are actually healed. If the early Church in the book of Acts had the same attitude toward signs and wonders as today's churches, I would doubt that we would have a Christian Church today. It would have died out long before the end of the first century as the last of the twelve original apostles and their direct disciples died off. The reason why the Church Church became the powerful entity that spread throughout the known world and overthrew the Roman Empire was that the preaching of the gospel was accompanied by signs and wonders all the time.

We pray that we preach the word of God with boldness and just leave it there. We do not complete the prayer prayed by the disciples at the start of Acts where they asked for boldness, and that "signs and wonders be done in the name of your holy child Jesus." It is when they prayed that whole prayer that the place was shaken and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. These days, we pray for boldness, get a few goosebumps up our spines and think that we can go out and win the world for Christ. Then we wonder why people won't listen to us.

Even when one or two actually believe the Word of God and maintain that signs and wonders are essential, and start seeing the signs and wonders happening, they are put down, criticised, and persecuted by the very churches that have the belief in signs and wonders in their own articles of faith!!! One healing evangelist from a prominent Pentecostal denomination experienced persecution from his home church because the leaders of the church were jealous of his success when they were failing to come up with the goods in their established Pentecostal churches.

So, I maintain that even though a church has acceptance of signs and wonders in its articles of faith, but does not teach that the preaching of the Gospel has to be accompanied by signs and wonders, and does not pray without ceasing that the Holy Spirit will perform the signs and wonders when they go out into the community with the Gospel, is actually a dead church. All they have are words without power. Although they are giving lip service, they are actually disobeying the command of Christ to "heal the sick, cast out demons, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead" as well as preach the good news. All they do is try to preach the good news without the rest and wonder why they fail to produce the goods.

A component of the list of those who will not get into heaven is "the unbelieving". Does this include those who will not believe and obey the command of Jesus to include signs and wonders in their religious practice. I believe the difference between operating from a religious spirit and The Holy Spirit, is the inclusion of signs and wonders in what they do. The religious spirit deals mainly with religious words. The Holy Spirit works with the words of eternal life accompanied by miraculous signs and wonders.

As much as I laud any effort to encourage Believers to embrace the Power of the Holy Spirit within both their lives and ministry, I do not agree that we are to seek out signs and wonders as such things are not part of local congregational life.

Over my years on this forum I have regularly stated that each and every local congregation should be ensuring that the eight Congregational Offices of 1Cor 12:28 are active within the life of each congregation. Along with the 8 Offices, the leadership of each congregation should be encouraging each and every member to seek out one or more of the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit found in 1Cor 12:8-10:

9 Manifestations of the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:8-10)

1. Wisdom
2. Knowledge
3. Faith
4. Healings
5. Powers (aka, miracles)
6. Prophecy
7. Discerning of spirits
8. Tongues
9. Interpretation of tongues​

8 Congregational Offices (1Cor 12:28)

1. Apostles (i.e., a church planter)
2. Prophets
3. Teachers
4. Powers (aka, miracles)
5. Healings
6. Helps
7. Administrations
8. Tongues (would also include the ability to interpret)
​

Signs and Wonders differ from the operations of the Holy Spirit as they are the agency of the Father and not of the Holy Spirit, whereas the Holy Spirit is of course the agency of the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit. Unlike the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit (aka, spiritual gifts) which are of course an integral aspect of both the life of the local congregation and with the individual Believer, signs and wonders differ in that they are not something that we should ever seek out or desire - but in certain circumstances we should be open to such operations of the Father. This does not mean that the Father will not choose to work in this manner within Greenfield regions that have never previously encountered the Gospel but such things will only come about as a result of the Fathers prerogative and they are not something that we should expect to see within the life of the local church.

This is why we cannot function in the same manner as Jesus did or with how he sent out those who were authorised to minister in his name. Even with the Twelve and with individuals such as Stephen, Phillip and others, the Father only worked through them in signs and wonders due to the various circumstances that they were in.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

As much as I laud any effort to encourage Believers to embrace the Power of the Holy Spirit within both their lives and ministry, I do not agree that we are to seek out signs and wonders as such things are not part of local congregational life.

Over my years on this forum I have regularly stated that each and every local congregation should be ensuring that the eight Congregational Offices of 1Cor 12:28 are active within the life of each congregation. Along with the 8 Offices, the leadership of each congregation should be encouraging each and every member to seek out one or more of the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit found in 1Cor 12:8-10:

9 Manifestations of the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:8-10)

1. Wisdom
2. Knowledge
3. Faith
4. Healings
5. Powers (aka, miracles)
6. Prophecy
7. Discerning of spirits
8. Tongues
9. Interpretation of tongues​

8 Congregational Offices (1Cor 12:28)

1. Apostles (i.e., a church planter)
2. Prophets
3. Teachers
4. Powers (aka, miracles)
5. Healings
6. Helps
7. Administrations
8. Tongues (would also include the ability to interpret)
​

Signs and Wonders differ from the operations of the Holy Spirit as they are the agency of the Father and not of the Holy Spirit, whereas the Holy Spirit is of course the agency of the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit. Unlike the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit (aka, spiritual gifts) which are of course an integral aspect of both the life of the local congregation and with the individual Believer, signs and wonders differ in that they are not something that we should ever seek out or desire - but in certain circumstances we should be open to such operations of the Father. This does not mean that the Father will not choose to work in this manner within Greenfield regions that have never previously encountered the Gospel but such things will only come about as a result of the Fathers prerogative and they are not something that we should expect to see within the life of the local church.

This is why we cannot function in the same manner as Jesus did or with how he sent out those who were authorised to minister in his name. Even with the Twelve and with individuals such as Stephen, Phillip and others, the Father only worked through them in signs and wonders due to the various circumstances that they were in.

I agree. When the New Testament refers to signs, wonders, and miracles, it refers to them in conjunction with evangelism. The signs, wonders and miracles are signs to pagan unbelievers that Jesus really did rise from the dead, is alive, and the Gospel is real and true. It was to the Jews that Jesus said that they did not need a sign. His statement was not made in terms of Gentile unbelievers. Believers, Jew or Gentile don't need a further sign because they are born again, have a new heart, and the Holy Spirit lives within their spirit. But as the pagan world of the First Century needed tangible proof that Jesus was more powerful than their pagan gods, our neo pagan world needs to know in the same manner that Jesus is more powerful than the occult "gods", evolution theories, false religions, Western science, and pagan gods that are rampant in our world. Trying to use just words, even quotes from the Bible are totally inadequate. Paul says that the weapons of our warfare are not "carnal", ie: they are not natural. Trying to convince unbelievers through intellectual apologetics and Bible quotes are natural techniques. These are not the weapons of our warfare that Paul speaks about. But the weapons our our warfare are "mighty through God", in other words, signs, wonders and miracles accompanying the preaching of the Gospel.

We must take the attitude that we are falling short and powerless in the preaching of the Gospel to unbelievers if that preaching is not accompanied by signs, wonders and miracles. The disciples in the beginning of Acts set the example for us, they prayed that they be given boldness to preach the Gospel and that signs and wonders be done in the Name of Jesus. So, for evangelism, we must plead with God that He does the same for us, otherwise our words will fall on deaf ears.

But, as you say, we don't look for the same signs and wonders in our congregations. We do what what Paul said: "Pursue love, and seek earnestly the best gifts." What he meant here was that when we are faced with a situation that needs supernatural ministry, we are to operate on a principle of love (as defined in 1 Corinthians 13 and Galatians 5), and earnestly desire and pray for the best supernatural gift to use to meet that particular need, whether it be a Word of Knowledge, Wisdom, Prophecy, Healing, Miracles, Faith, Tongues/Interpretation, or Discerning of Spirits. The main reason why so many churches are powerless in this is that they do not operate on a principle of love, as you and I have experienced, and they treat the supernatural gifts as optional extras and try to meet peoples needs through natural counselling or the type of prayer that knocks on God's door and then runs away before He has a chance to answer. Also, too many churches have programmed, ritualistic, ceremonial services that don't allow the Holy Spirit to have even a look in, much less actually do anything in the services.

 

[Biblicist]

I agree. When the New Testament refers to signs, wonders, and miracles, it refers to them in conjunction with evangelism. The signs, wonders and miracles are signs to pagan unbelievers that Jesus really did rise from the dead, is alive, and the Gospel is real and true. It was to the Jews that Jesus said that they did not need a sign. His statement was not made in terms of Gentile unbelievers. Believers, Jew or Gentile don't need a further sign because they are born again, have a new heart, and the Holy Spirit lives within their spirit. But as the pagan world of the First Century needed tangible proof that Jesus was more powerful than their pagan gods, our neo pagan world needs to know in the same manner that Jesus is more powerful than the occult "gods", evolution theories, false religions, Western science, and pagan gods that are rampant in our world. Trying to use just words, even quotes from the Bible are totally inadequate. Paul says that the weapons of our warfare are not "carnal", ie: they are not natural. Trying to convince unbelievers through intellectual apologetics and Bible quotes are natural techniques. These are not the weapons of our warfare that Paul speaks about. But the weapons our our warfare are "mighty through God", in other words, signs, wonders and miracles accompanying the preaching of the Gospel.

We must take the attitude that we are falling short and powerless in the preaching of the Gospel to unbelievers if that preaching is not accompanied by signs, wonders and miracles. The disciples in the beginning of Acts set the example for us, they prayed that they be given boldness to preach the Gospel and that signs and wonders be done in the Name of Jesus. So, for evangelism, we must plead with God that He does the same for us, otherwise our words will fall on deaf ears.

But, as you say, we don't look for the same signs and wonders in our congregations. We do what what Paul said: "Pursue love, and seek earnestly the best gifts." What he meant here was that when we are faced with a situation that needs supernatural ministry, we are to operate on a principle of love (as defined in 1 Corinthians 13 and Galatians 5), and earnestly desire and pray for the best supernatural gift to use to meet that particular need, whether it be a Word of Knowledge, Wisdom, Prophecy, Healing, Miracles, Faith, Tongues/Interpretation, or Discerning of Spirits. The main reason why so many churches are powerless in this is that they do not operate on a principle of love, as you and I have experienced, and they treat the supernatural gifts as optional extras and try to meet peoples needs through natural counselling or the type of prayer that knocks on God's door and then runs away before He has a chance to answer. Also, too many churches have programmed, ritualistic, ceremonial services that don't allow the Holy Spirit to have even a look in, much less actually do anything in the services.

Now that was a superb post, where in my opinion it summed up the Full Gospel nature of the New Covenant about as well as could be.

What I think tends to happen with the term signs and wonders is that it is like many other terms and sayings that we can all easily incorporate due to their frequent populist usage, which is something that I know that I still and will continue to succumb to up until I stand before the Lord.

Edit: The advantage of the populist and often problematic term signs and wonders is that it is admittedly an easy way to describe the broad ministry of the Holy Spirit through his 9 Spiritual Manifestations and with at least four of the 8 Congregational Offices; along with the distinctive Ministry/Functions that belong to the Father as well.

When I make reference to these things I am forced to use a long-hand descriptor or descriptors which can be a bit confusing for some, particularly when they presume that what I am referring to are signs and wonders - ahh....the troubles we face with language!!​

 

[drmerejay]

I have been doing alot of research and praying on this topic. I believe God really wants us to believe in his Love and all of it's manifestations through Jesus Christ. I made this video if your free it's short about the Azusa street revival, which sort of sparked me drawing closer to Jesus.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have been doing alot of research and praying on this topic. I believe God really wants us to believe in his Love and all of it's manifestations through Jesus Christ. I made this video if your free it's short about the Azusa street revival, which sort of sparked me drawing closer to Jesus.

I have downloaded the video and copied it to my computer so I can watch it later at my leisure. Thanks for that.

 

[Victor E.]

Deuteronomy 13

This is my favorite passage too! Very encouraging to everyone who actually ministers signs, wonders, miracles on the street (to save souls) like they were commanded to. To the lukewarm or rebellious...not so much.

"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven." Luke 10:17-20

"Later as they were eating, Jesus appeared to the eleven and rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.” Mark 16:14-18.

I always interpreted snakes to be a spiritual allusion to demonic spirits, but it *could* mean literal snakes (there is a difference between faith, and testing God)