Show Me The Crocoduck!!

[AV1611VET]

Couldn't agree more. On average atheists/agnostics have a far greater understanding of religion and the bible than creationists have of science and evolution.

Oh, my --- [insert facepalm of your choice here].

You guys, who can't even...

 

[Meshach]

Noone can confirm or deny that Jesus was a real historical figure and even if he was noone can confirm or deny that he was the son of God. He may have just been a carpenter who gave hope to people.

More people are Atheist than ever before, education is slowly destroying faith. Religion for most people is no longer a large or even important part of their lives.

You can get all the education you want, I assure you, it will not eliminate God.

1 Corinthians 1:20-21

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Jesus is Lord, and until you make Him yours you will be floundering around in the dark, always wondering. Behold, He stands at your hearts door and knocks.

Matthew 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

There is absolutely NOTHING that can seperate us from the love of God.

Romans 8:38-39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[AV1611VET]

The bible is written so that anything that happens can be seen to be predicted by the bible. No doubt after seeing the fall of so many religions the bible was written so that when Christianity started to fall it could be seen as a prophecy and keep people's belief in these fairy tales.

Actually, I was talking about the fall of the current dispensation; and since you know the Bible so well, you know I'm talking about the 6th one, right?

You know --- Grace --- the Church Age?

The one that started when the veil in the Temple was torn in half from the top down, and will end at Armageddon?

But let me let you in on a little secret here.

Anyone can make a "self-fulfilling" prophecy, or retrofit a prophecy --- the trick though is keeping one from being fulfilled.

There's the litmus test that turns red paper green, or green paper red ---

 

[BananaSlug]

Oh, my --- [insert irony meter remark of your choice here].

You guys, who can't even get past Genesis 1 without rolling your eyes;

You do not even know anything about my past. I have my reasons for not believing.

you guys, who can't even understand why we're not out there putting witches on trial;

We don't understand why you want some parts of the Bible to be literal yet you are fine with other parts being figurative.

you guys, who can't understand why we're not marching out on a crusade;

Because Jesus was nonviolent? You cannot help that some people use religion for personal gain.

executing our children for picking up sticks;

Regardless of the fact it no longer happens now (except maybe in certain religious countries), it is the fact God commanded it in the first place.

adding another 14 books to our Bible; and think there's 38,000 (that's 'thousand') sects of Christianity;

I doubt there are thousands but there have been quite a few over the years...

would make a statement like this?

Said by the man who "/thread" when the going gets tough. Said by the man who thinks the KJV is better than the original Hebrew and Greek. Said by the man...

 

[firechild_82]

Oh, my --- [insert irony meter remark of your choice here].

You guys, who can't even get past Genesis 1 without rolling your eyes; you guys, who can't even understand why we're not out there putting witches on trial; you guys, who can't understand why we're not marching out on a crusade; executing our children for picking up sticks; adding another 14 books to our Bible; and think there's 38,000 (that's 'thousand') sects of Christianity; would make a statement like this?

Another display of arrogance and ignorance.

I spent my Sunday mornings as a child at Sunday school, I attended christian scripture classes when I was at school. Like many other atheists, I was brought up with Christian influences. Most of us do understand the bible and our understanding of it has caused us to reject it as a possible reality. My rejection of the bible came first, at the time I still had belief in the God but logically concluded that the bible could be nothing more than a set of stories that give a set of guidelines by which to live. Things like treating your fellow man with respect and not judging others. Unfortunately christians are the most judgemental people on earth despite what their bible tells them. Christians and the church started my parting with christianity and over time I have come to realise that no good can come from such a religion. This all happened while I was in high school (somewhere equivelant to your junior high). The arrogance displayed by the average online christian as well as many that I know personally has given me strong disliking for christianity (as well as Islam, though my dealings with such people are far less frequent). I do not judge individuals on their religion as christians do with others, I actually have a good friend who is a minister and we talk about religion a few times a week. You seem to think that an understanding of the bible = belief in the bible. You claim that the bible is clear on its word yet it is difficult to randomly select 2 christians who have the same interpretation of the bible. The bible is full of metaphors and exaggerations, it is hardly intended to be taken literally.

 

[AV1611VET]

Another display of arrogance and ignorance.

I spent my Sunday mornings as a child at Sunday school, I attended christian scripture classes when I was at school. Like many other atheists, I was brought up with Christian influences. Most of us do understand the bible and our understanding of it has caused us to reject it as a possible reality. My rejection of the bible came first, at the time I still had belief in the God but logically concluded that the bible could be nothing more than a set of stories that give a set of guidelines by which to live. Things like treating your fellow man with respect and not judging others. Unfortunately christians are the most judgemental people on earth despite what their bible tells them. Christians and the church started my parting with christianity and over time I have come to realise that no good can come from such a religion. This all happened while I was in high school (somewhere equivelant to your junior high). The arrogance displayed by the average online christian as well as many that I know personally has given me strong disliking for christianity (as well as Islam, though my dealings with such people are far less frequent). I do not judge individuals on their religion as christians do with others, I actually have a good friend who is a minister and we talk about religion a few times a week. You seem to think that an understanding of the bible = belief in the bible. You claim that the bible is clear on its word yet it is difficult to randomly select 2 christians who have the same interpretation of the bible. The bible is full of metaphors and exaggerations, it is hardly intended to be taken literally.

Not one word addressed the examples I gave.

Now, all of a sudden, I get this "treat your fellow man with respect" reply.

Answer me this, please.

What turns you against the Bible more?

It [supposedly] supporting "infanticide, murder, witch hunts, and the like" --- or we Christians who are "judgmental"?

Please don't try and make it look like it's our fault because you couldn't handle what you incorrectly perceived to be infanticide, witch hunts and the like.

 

[firechild_82]

Please quote where I have mentioned witch hunts, murder or infanticide.

What turned me from christianity is a combinations of many things. The bible is self contradictory, it promotes a jealous, vengeful God while telling everyone that he is loving and kind. Any man that ruled with the iron hand as God does would be considered a tyrant.

Christians as a whole helped to turn me against christianity, the general belief that if you do not accept God you are a bad person. I know plenty of good people who do not believe in God and I know bad people who are deeply religious. Think about how many christians are in jail for serious crimes. Christianity has zero bearing on whether you are a good person or not.

What turned me against Christianity was the fact that I lost all respect for it, the people, the churches, the book and the invisible man that lives in the sky.

 

[AV1611VET]

Please quote where I have mentioned witch hunts, murder or infanticide.

Fair enough, I apologize.

What turned me from christianity is a combinations of many things. The bible is self contradictory, it promotes a jealous, vengeful God while telling everyone that he is loving and kind. Any man that ruled with the iron hand as God does would be considered a tyrant.

Christians as a whole helped to turn me against christianity, the general belief that if you do not accept God you are a bad person. I know plenty of good people who do not believe in God and I know bad people who are deeply religious. Think about how many christians are in jail for serious crimes. Christianity has zero bearing on whether you are a good person or not.

What turned me against Christianity was the fact that I lost all respect for it, the people, the churches, the book and the invisible man that lives in the sky.

But what I'm getting at is --- which came first?

The Bible being "self-contradictory", or "you're a 'bad person'"?

You do realize we're all 'bad persons', do you not?

Whether we're saved or not, we're still sinners --- right?

As my pastor likes to put it: 'We're not sinners because we sin, we sin because we're sinners.'

 

[firechild_82]

I would beg to differ, we "sin" because we are human. To call it sin is simply to put a religious overtone on it.

God supposedly caused the flood to rid the world of sin and Noah and his family were allowed to live so that their good could be passed on to future generations. I doubt the world now is any more without sin than it would have been before the days of Noah. God is a failure, he attempted to create a perfect world and had to make so many attempts to save it. How can he be omniscient? He had to destroy the cities of Sodom and gomorrah, he flooded the world killing all but a few and he had to send his son to again try to make things right. Yet the world is still full of "sin" and evil. He FAILED as a creator.

The moral and ethical implications of the religion (the reason why christians judge others) is part of the condradiction within the bible so I guess neither came first. It's all just one big lie that has resulted in people having a feeling of superiority because they believe it.

 

[Gracchus]

You guys, who can't even get past Genesis 1 without rolling your eyes;

Well, that is very simple when you realize it is a chalcolithic campfire story. What causes the eye-rolling is that anyone could still take it literally.

you guys, who can't even understand why we're not out there putting witches on trial;

Again, that's simply because folks who don't take the "Bible" as the commands of the almighty sky-daddy, won't let you.

you guys, who can't understand why we're not marching out on a crusade;

Well, some of us are marching out, we just don't call it a crusade.

executing our children for picking up sticks;

It's because those filthy atheists have corrupted religion, and most people would be ashamed to let you kill children.

adding another 14 books to our Bible;

Give us a break! You have added nearly that much just to interpret the Bible to suit your needs.

and think there's 38,000 (that's 'thousand') sects of Christianity;

So, how many are there, and how many have there been? Tell us, oh mighty all-wise prophet.

would make a statement like this?

Statement? Are you talking about the OP or one of your derails? Oh yeah!

Actually having an understanding of the opposite side can help you debate against it better.

In other words, you are saying that displaying the vast width, length, depth and total vacuity of your ignorance, will win over your audience?



Truly then, you must have converted every person on this forum to your way of thinking!

 

[ReverendDG]

Oh, my --- [insert irony meter remark of your choice here].

well considering how convoluted your theology is AV, i find it harder and harder to find any resemblance to christianity as it is understood to be historically.

You guys, who can't even get past Genesis 1 without rolling your eyes;

oh i can understand it just fine, that doesn't mean i accept or think it is anything more than a pre-heliocentric, pre-sea faring people's story about how they understood the world.
you, on the other hand think that in order to understand something we must embrace it fully without regards to what we know about the world. if we don't we some how don't understand it or can even absorb the text. seems to me that you are simply projecting and are just plain defining us as not being able to get passed genesis 1, solely because we don't follow your theology.

you guys, who can't even understand why we're not out there putting witches on trial;

christians don't do it in america because it is illegal, try checking out news about africa, they have had a lot of cases of witch hunts. this isn't about witch hunting, it is just used as an illustration of christian hypocrisy.

you guys, who can't understand why we're not marching out on a crusade; executing our children for picking up sticks;

further evidence that you don't even really understand the point of those examples. the point is of course the willingness of christians to pick and choose what they follow in the bible.

adding another 14 books to our Bible; and think there's 38,000 (that's 'thousand') sects of Christianity; would make a statement like this?

there are 38 thousand sects of christianity, do you know what a sect is? there are less denominations, but if you are saying sects than yes all over the world there are thousands. now of course that depends on how you define christian, some people define it in such a way that only theirs is christian, everyone else is a fraud.
what 14 books? gnostic gospels? or what? do you consider the book of enoch to be part of the christian canon? some people do.
i know you like to imagine that the canon was constructed by god through people to come out to your holy kjv, but the canon wasn't set at any point.
heck they still debated whether revelations was canon for centuries, its a myth that the canon was set.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, that is very simple when you realize it is a chalcolithic campfire story.

Wrong element.

Chalcolithic is copper and tin (bronze); try copper and zinc (brass).

The [real] Bible pwns those who think It was written by "bronze age...".

In fact, the word "bronze" isn't even in the Bible.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Wrong element.

Chalcolithic is copper and tin (bronze); try copper and zinc (brass).

The [real] Bible pwns those who think It was written by "bronze age...".

In fact, the word "bronze" isn't even in the Bible.

Show us a pre settlement Hebrew implement made of BRASS and we'll talk.

 

[AV1611VET]

Show us a pre settlement Hebrew implement made of BRASS and we'll talk.

Save your breath, I'm not an archaeologist.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Save your breath, I'm not an archaeologist.

So... once again, you are saying a scientific evaluation is incorrect, without actually looking into the science?

And nothing about that strikes you as a tad non-critical?

 

[AV1611VET]

So... once again, you are saying a scientific evaluation is incorrect, without actually looking into the science?

And nothing about that strikes you as a tad non-critical?

How 'bout you highlight in red anything I said here that was wrong:

Wrong element.

Chalcolithic is copper and tin (bronze); try copper and zinc (brass).

The [real] Bible pwns those who think It was written by "bronze age...".

In fact, the word "bronze" isn't even in the Bible.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

How 'bout you highlight in red anything I said here that was wrong:

Why are you talking about brass alloy if you aren't implying that the ancient Hebrews were brass users?

But by all means, if that is not your implication, please correct me. What was the metal used in toolmaking by ancient Hebrews?

 

[MoonLancer]

In fact, the word "bronze" isn't even in the Bible.

nether is evolution... strange.

 

[AV1611VET]

nether is evolution... strange.

Imagine that ---

Neither are "rapture" and "trinity".

 

[EnemyPartyII]

AV? My question?

Were you claiming the ancient Hebrews were brass workers or what?