Should we sin 'boldly' ???

[Carl Emerson]

The quote Jonaitus posted is the entire paragraph within the letter. The quote is within the context of the paragraph.
The paragraph is posted online.

Thanks for that but which book and what translation...

Some think the rendering of the German is a little unkind ???

 

[QvQ]

"The quote occurs in a letter from Luther to Melanchthon, which Luther wrote in the Wartburg castle, hiding out to avoid execution.'
The letter is a fragment.
Here is a link to the English translation
Martin Luther: Sin Boldly | Page 1 of 1

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes - I think there are weaknesses that are sinful and then we are to consider ourselves less than others which would seem to be a righteous weakness.

Such as?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Such as?

Luke 22
25 Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26 But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.

 

[Cockcrow]

no and disagree with Luther. being under Grace isn't a license to sin, Apostle Paul nowhere teaches us to sin even though we are under grace and not the law. Nowhere does he use Gods grace as an excuse to proudly sin. our works are not what saves us and there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation as even our righteous works are as filthy rags to God, but there is no license to sin anywhere in the Bible.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I quote Martin Luther...

“Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong (sin boldly), but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world... ” Martin Luther.

Ekk! ... that is terrible advice from Luther.

We do have grace but we are not to sin because of it:

Gal 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!​

 

[Cockcrow]

Romans 6:15-23
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[RileyG]

Luther may have been drunk or had dementia when he said that. He was a human being.

 

[Lady Bug]

I quote Martin Luther...

“Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong (sin boldly)”

“If men only believe enough in Christ they can commit adultery and murder a thousand times a day without periling their salvation.”.

Imagine if Jesus said either one of these things. Would that turn anyone off?

 

[QvQ]

Pavel Mosko said: ↑
“If men only believe enough in Christ they can commit adultery and murder a thousand times a day without periling their salvation.”.
This is a hypothetical. It is the power of Christ, not the sin of the person Luther is emphasizing. He was writing a letter. We don't know what the context is. It may be that the person Luther was addressing was greatly upset over a small sin, afraid of losing his salvation over the smallest fall from perfection.
I read this comment, is "don't fret. If you believe enough in Christ you could commit much more egregious sins without periling your salvation."
We don't know because the letter that contains this quote is a fragment of a letter. A personal reply to a letter of which we know nothing.
No one should be judged on scraps of scraps, which is what this is, a few words taken out context from a fragment of a letter.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Pavel Mosko said: ↑
“If men only believe enough in Christ they can commit adultery and murder a thousand times a day without periling their salvation.”.
This is a hypothetical. It is the power of Christ, not the sin of the person Luther is emphasizing. He was writing a letter. We don't know what the context is. It may be that the person Luther was addressing was greatly upset over a small sin, afraid of losing his salvation over the smallest fall from perfection.
I read this comment, is "don't fret. If you believe enough in Christ you could commit much more egregious sins without periling your salvation."
We don't know because the letter that contains this quote is a fragment of a letter. A personal reply to a letter of which we know nothing.
No one should be judged on scraps of scraps, which is what this is, a few words taken out context from a fragment of a letter.

This is very helpful thanks.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Literalists will always stumble with poetic statements, just as they do with grace.

Saint Paul wrote

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? Should we continue to live in sin so that God's grace will increase? 2 Certainly not!​

I prefer Saint Paul's advice to Martin Luther's poetic comment.

 

[QvQ]

If God's grace increased with the magnitude of sin, the Devil would be heaven and then some. The Devil did believe in Christ and the Resurrection, knew it for fact, in fact.
That is an interesting thought.

 

[Jonaitis]

Can you indicate where the quote came from please...

Letter 99, Paragraph 13
https://www.projectwittenberg.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/letsinsbe.txt

 

[Jamdoc]

I get what Luther was trying to say, that our salvation is not dependent on our actions but on Christ.
and where sin abounds grace DOES abound
but as Paul taught, we shouldn't abound in sin SO that grace can abound.
It's abusing our relationship.
I'd like to personally pound less nails into the flesh of Jesus Christ as I can, even though I know I'll never NOT need His forgiveness.
But the security is in knowing you HAVE a relationship with Jesus, and that you are forgiven and that Jesus does not unforgive you, and your forgiveness is for His own name's sake, not based on our actions but His righteousness.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If God's grace increased with the magnitude of sin, the Devil would be heaven and then some. The Devil did believe in Christ and the Resurrection, knew it for fact, in fact.
That is an interesting thought.

Mmmm... I cant imagine Satan repenting...

 

[Carl Emerson]

I get what Luther was trying to say, that our salvation is not dependent on our actions but on Christ.
and where sin abounds grace DOES abound
but as Paul taught, we shouldn't abound in sin SO that grace can abound.
It's abusing our relationship.
I'd like to personally pound less nails into the flesh of Jesus Christ as I can, even though I know I'll never NOT need His forgiveness.
But the security is in knowing you HAVE a relationship with Jesus, and that you are forgiven and that Jesus does not unforgive you, and your forgiveness is for His own name's sake, not based on our actions but His righteousness.

Yep, good summary.

We cant lynch Luther - a fragment of a letter - no way to prove context.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Letter 99, Paragraph 13
https://www.projectwittenberg.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/letsinsbe.txt

Thanks Jonaitis interesting reading...

 

[fhansen]

That was why I thought the quote was awful. If you read commentary on it they typically say that Luther is using hyperbole and mentioning how sin doesn't damage Faith that we all sin all the time often unwearyingly etc.

I hate it because it has an almost Gnostic antinomian kind of message/vibe.

Which was related to another of his quotes I heard about on Justification where he makes an analogy of our sin as basically being like "snow covered dung". This sort of thing has led some Eastern Orthodox writers etc. talking also about some latent gnostic stuff to some Protestant ideas of the Atonement and such. That quote sounds like Docetism except with sin.


But for the record Luther did believe in Sanctification and that is was necessary for salvation, that message does get buried with his shocking comments on Faith and such.

Yes, this is the sickness that some find themselves in due to their understanding of the doctrine of Sola Fide. And in thinking that grace means we’re saved in spite of ourselves, in spite of sin, future sin included. Faith does not trump righteousness, or excuse unrighteousness, or replace it, or remove the obligation for man to be righteous.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes, this is the sickness that some find themselves in due to their understanding of the doctrine of Sola Fide. And in thinking that grace means we’re saved in spite of ourselves, in spite of sin, future sin included. Faith does not trump righteousness, or excuse unrighteousness, or replace it, or remove the obligation for man to be righteous.

I guess that depends on how you define faith.

If faith is a gift from God rather than a mindset of some sort, then if God decides to eradicate the consequences of all sin for His chosen, who are we to argue ???