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Should we sin 'boldly' ???

Pavel Mosko

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I take it back... there was another controversial quote of Luther's... It' similar to the above but more shocking. (edit - just found it!)


If men only believe enough in Christ they can commit adultery and murder a thousand times a day without periling their salvation.”.

This was the quote I was going to talk about, actually do a video series on his other stuff. He likes to make a number of shocking sound bite quotes that give out bad messages, so I was going to cover what he actually believed and taught in regards to Sanctification and its relationship to salvation.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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I quote Martin Luther...

Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong (sin boldly), but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world... ” Martin Luther.
Anyone who advises you to sin is no friend to you and no friend of Christ.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I take it back... there was another controversial quote of Luther's... It' similar to the above but more shocking. (edit - just found it!)


If men only believe enough in Christ they can commit adultery and murder a thousand times a day without periling their salvation.”.

This was the quote I was going to talk about, actually do a video series on his other stuff. He likes to make a number of shocking sound bite quotes that give out bad messages, so I was going to cover what he actually believed and taught in regards to Sanctification and its relationship to salvation.

So the 'Power of belief' becomes the saving grace... ???

Help us out here Pavel...
 
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Pavel Mosko

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So the 'Power of belief' becomes the saving grace... ???

Help us out here Pavel...

That was why I thought the quote was awful. If you read commentary on it they typically say that Luther is using hyperbole and mentioning how sin doesn't damage Faith that we all sin all the time often unwearyingly etc.

I hate it because it has an almost Gnostic antinomian kind of message/vibe.

Which was related to another of his quotes I heard about on Justification where he makes an analogy of our sin as basically being like "snow covered dung". This sort of thing has led some Eastern Orthodox writers etc. talking also about some latent gnostic stuff to some Protestant ideas of the Atonement and such. That quote sounds like Docetism except with sin.


But for the record Luther did believe in Sanctification and that is was necessary for salvation, that message does get buried with his shocking comments on Faith and such.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I quote Martin Luther...

Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong (sin boldly), but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world... ” Martin Luther.
It's really similar to a scripture verse, something about boasting of my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me.
2 Corinthians 12:9

possibly something lost in the translation, since he was german.
 
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d taylor

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It is interesting how much people focus on sin in their lives. Almost like Jesus never died and took away the sin of the world. Maybe that is why so many do not know if they are coming or going in their christian walk.

And now many make that (sin) part of their salvation message.
 
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Carl Emerson

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It's really similar to a scripture verse, something about boasting of my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me.
2 Corinthians 12:9

possibly something lost in the translation, since he was german.

I think weakness and sin are different animals...
 
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Jonaitis

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"If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong [or sin boldly], but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13), are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner."

I won't lie, Luther has made some strange statements before, so I am not surprised about this quote. I have a hard time reading his commentaries.

It sounds to me that Luther is using a hyperbole about the old nature that hangs on and still tempts us, and that despite our daily failings, we must nonetheless hold stronger to Christ. Nobody accidently commits sin, but even so, let us boldly come to Christ all the more.
 
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Jonaitis

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This seems to present a works based salvation ???

I don't see how, could you elaborate? I think you are putting too much thought into the statement. Remember, let us not bear false witness, especially against our brothers. Let us reasonably understand him.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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JB talked about becoming less that He could become more...
Anything missing the mark is sin, so is anything not of faith. These constitute weaknesses. Confessing them, helps Him become more within us.
 
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Carl Emerson

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"If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong [or sin boldly], but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13), are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner."

I won't lie, Luther has made some strange statements before, so I am not surprised about this quote. I have a hard time reading his commentaries.

It sounds to me that Luther is using a hyperbole about the old nature that hangs on and still tempts us, and that despite our daily failings, we must nonetheless hold stronger to Christ. Nobody accidently commits sin, but even so, let us boldly come to Christ all the more.

Can you indicate where the quote came from please...
 
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Carl Emerson

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Anything missing the mark is sin, so is anything not of faith. These constitute weaknesses. Confessing them, helps Him become more within us.

Yes - I think there are weaknesses that are sinful and then we are to consider ourselves less than others which would seem to be a righteous weakness.
 
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