Should we listen or learn from Christians who are millionaires?

[usexpat97]

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

 

[timothyu]

And? I thought working for yourself was supposed to be all sinful?

When has being self sufficient and living off the land as the early peoples did been sinful? God provides. Just because Mammon created a different system does not mean we need fall into that trap. It's kind of funny when man runs across tribes living as we were meant to live, that they are the ones called savages. These tribes maintaining the original lifestyle have lived thousands of years working together for the benefit of all yet monetized man seeks gain at the expense of others. We're the savages.

 

[LW97Nils]

Some more Early Christians on money and possessions.

Letter to Barnabas (c.100 AD) "You shall share all things with your neighbor; you shall not call things your own; for if you are partakers in common of things which are incorruptible, how much more of those things which are corruptible! "

I believe this to be a reference to 1 Corinthians 10:26: For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

We must make a distinction between posession and ownership. The owner and provider of what we have must always be the LORD

It is a problem in the New Testament to be rich. So a person has to get over this fact and accept the truth of it.

It simply debends how riches are defined. If it are earthly riches, absolutely. If it however are not riches the way the world sees it - a close relationship to the LORD, a family and such, riches that differ from the riches of Musk, Bezos, Gates etc. - then it certainly is not a problem. Having a business is not the problem, for Paul himself was a tentmaker, but the money must be used wisely.

 

[LW97Nils]

Well obviously not. You need to provide for your family and those who don't work won't be fed. What I am saying is that you should be voluntarily poor. Giving away your wealth to those who genuinely need it. That type of poverty is accidental or poverty due to laziness.

Very true. This also is the Anabaptit posession.

 

[timothyu]

"Should we take advice from Christians who are millionaires?"

You mean pastors?

 

[LW97Nils]

"Should we take advice from Christians who are millionaires?"

You mean pastors?

Sadly too many. But not all.

 

[sawdust]

Should we take advice from Christians who are millionaires?

Job was a millionaire. If you make wealth the criteria for judging a man you are in danger of becoming resentful.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Should we take advice from Christians who are millionaires?

Proverbs 22:2:
Rich and poor have this in common:
The Lord is the Maker of them all.

Paul asks Timothy to command the rich to be generous and willing to share...he does not "ban" or "outlaw" wealth. We are to be busy and earning our bread and to earn a living so that we may have something to share with those in need (Ephesians 4:28)...some earn more to share than others Also the amount to share and how and why are not to be by compunction.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It simply debends how riches are defined. If it are earthly riches, absolutely. If it however are not riches the way the world sees it - a close relationship to the LORD, a family and such, riches that differ from the riches of Musk, Bezos, Gates etc. - then it certainly is not a problem. Having a business is not the problem, for Paul himself was a tentmaker, but the money must be used wisely.

1 Timothy 6 is the best prescription.

9 “But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.”

It’s not easy. We want to make sure our family is taken care of. But we also don’t want to chase after riches, either. If God does bless us with money, we should use it wisely for God’s Kingdom and realize that we should not trust in those riches but in God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Proverbs 22:2:
Rich and poor have this in common:
The Lord is the Maker of them all.

Paul asks Timothy to command the rich to be generous and willing to share...he does not "ban" or "outlaw" wealth. We are to be busy and earning our bread and to earn a living so that we may have something to share with those in need (Ephesians 4:28)...some earn more to share than others Also the amount to share and how and why are not to be by compunction.

That’s Old Testament.
We are under a different Covenant (i.e. the New Covenant).
Jesus said it’s hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom.
I would rather play it safe than be sorry (Personally).
Remember, the love of money is the root of all evil.
Whatever a person loves, they accumulate that thing that they love.
If a person loves Elvis, they would accumulate Elvis stuff in their house, etcetera.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Job was a millionaire. If you make wealth the criteria for judging a man you are in danger of becoming resentful.

If he was, then he would have been living like the Egyptian Pharoah. Nowhere does it say that Job had tons of gold, and a giant city created in his honor. Nowhere does it say he had a mansion. So you are reading something into the text that is not there. Granted, I know that Joel Olsteen followers would probably agree with you. But I am not looking to live my best life now. I am looking to live my life for the LORD Jesus Christ (Which is not a popular thing nowadays).

Remember, the love of money is the root of all evil.
You love that which you accumulate.
Meaning if you love Teddy bears, you will accumulate that junk in your house.
If you love money, you will make sure that you have lots of it and that is the primary goal and focus of your life and God is like some kind of Coke machine that you rattle and shake to get that money. But that’s not what God is about. God is about knowing His love, and His peace, and in spreading that love towards others. Besides, the Bible warns against being rich in 1 Timothy 6. Jesus said it is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom. I would rather play it safe than be sorry. My soul is too important to play games with. This life is just a vapor and will pass away more quickly than you think. Live for the LORD and not filthy lucre. Yes, we do need to survive and get by, but seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these things (basic needs) will be provided for you.

 

[timothyu]

The more worldly things humans have the more protective of it they feel they need to become. The same applies to their human religion. They become protective of it instead of the Kingdom

 

[sawdust]

If he was, then he would have been living like the Egyptian Pharoah.

Why? You think because a man has money he must necessarily be extravagant? What Job had made him a very wealthy man within the context of his time.

Job 42:12-15
12 Now the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; for he had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, one thousand yoke of oxen, and one thousand female donkeys. 13 He also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 And he called the name of the first Jemimah, the name of the second Keziah, and the name of the third Keren-Happuch. 15 In all the land were found no women so beautiful as the daughters of Job; and their father gave them an inheritance among their brothers.

You sound like the bad steward afraid of what might happen.

Matt.25:24-28
24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’
26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

If a person is living within God's will for his life, then it is the lord who blesses that person. Who are you to say they cannot have what the Lord gives?

You go bury your own coins and stop telling others how they must live their life unto the Lord.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why? You think because a man has money he must necessarily be extravagant? What Job had made him a very wealthy man within the context of his time.

Job 42:12-15
12 Now the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; for he had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, one thousand yoke of oxen, and one thousand female donkeys. 13 He also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 And he called the name of the first Jemimah, the name of the second Keziah, and the name of the third Keren-Happuch. 15 In all the land were found no women so beautiful as the daughters of Job; and their father gave them an inheritance among their brothers.

You sound like the bad steward afraid of what might happen.

Matt.25:24-28
24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’
26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

If a person is living within God's will for his life, then it is the lord who blesses that person. Who are you to say they cannot have what the Lord gives?

You go bury your own coins and stop telling others how they must live their life unto the Lord.

I am not saying God cannot bless somebody materially, but to say that they are to seek after riches and or that they should be rich is not God’s will in the New Testament. 1 Timothy 6 warns against those who are rich.

Behold:

1 Timothy 6:9-12 says,
”But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.”

As for Job: Well, just because somebody back in the Old Testament times had excessive livestock does not mean he or she was the equivalent of a millionaire today. We do not know the money conversion back then. Money conversion is even different between countries here. The US dollar is worth more or less in other countries. So to assume that the livestock added up to millions of dollars that he could easily trade in for cold hard currency the next day is merely guesswork at best. Now, if it said Job had a giant vault filled with endless piles of gold, then you would be correct. But we do not know the price of livestock and if Job could even access whatever he liked because of his owning of livestock. Again, I do not see Job living the lavish life of luxury with him having a huge mansion with butlers, and with him being carried around on a chariot of gold, and with him having the nations great wealth in the form of real currency. Again, you are assuming that he was rich based on his possession of livestock alone and that is simply your own thinking or interpretation alone (Which is not a closed and shut case exactly).

As for Matthew 25:28-28 and your insult:

Okay, first, why would you want a fellow brother in Christ to bury their talent. You should pray for even your enemies according to Jesus. Remember, God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Second, while it is talking about currency in the parable and what we do with that currency, we do have the Parable of the Sheep and Goats that follows the Parable of the Talents. This would mean that we help the poor with what we have. Jesus said the poor will always be among you. So Jesus is not telling us to solve the world’s hunger issues. He is merely concerned with the matter of our heart towards Him and others. God wants us to love, and this can be reflected in the material goods we give to others. It does not mean God wants you to go out and be rich. Remember, God (the LORD) is the One who blesses and gives the person the currency to start in the beginning of the Parable of the Talents. I also see the word “talents” mentioned in the Parable of the Talents as having a double meaning, as well. This can also be your natural talents or spiritual gifts God has given to you that can lead you to bless others in an extremely great way and be faithful over a few areas of your life God is looking for you to accomplish. A Christian with no money can bless others with his voice in preaching the Word or they can bless others with their art talent, or they can bless others by knowing how to build homes for those who cannot afford one. Each true faithful believer has their own part in the body of Christ. The focus is not filthy lucre or money, but the focus is God and His good ways. If God decides to bless you, praise be unto His glory, but such blessings would be given back to God in some way and not as a means of holding on to that excessive wealth whereby it could not help anyone. Remember that woman who had very little and yet she gave all that she had? Well, she gave more than the Pharisees from God’s perspective. So just because one has a lot of money does not mean that they are giving in a way that God desires.

 

[timothyu]

Sounds like Job built his flock rather than an empire. Perhaps Christianity should take note.

 

[LW97Nils]

1 Timothy 6 is the best prescription.

9 “But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.”

It’s not easy. We want to make sure our family is taken care of. But we also don’t want to chase after riches, either. If God does bless us with money, we should use it wisely for God’s Kingdom and realize that we should not trust in those riches but in God.

Amen.

 

[sawdust]

I am not saying God cannot bless somebody materially, but to say that they are to seek after riches and or that they should be rich is not God’s will in the New Testament. 1 Timothy 6 warns against those who are rich.

The title of your thread says nothing about seeking riches so don't go changing the goal posts. You want to judge people on the basis of their wealth? Go right ahead but don't expect any accolades from God.

 

[sawdust]

Sounds like Job built his flock rather than an empire. Perhaps Christianity should take note.

You missed the opening of the verse. It was not Job who built his flock ....

Job 42:12a
12 Now the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning;

The Church I attended when I first became a Christian was built by a man who, in his time, was a millionaire. I also learnt of many things he did to help in the community. He could do the things he did because he had the wealth to do it.

Jesus did not say "you shall know them by their financial standing". He said "you will know them by their character".

Threads like this want to make me throw up. It is blatant hypocrisy.

my 5 cents worth.

 

[timothyu]

He said "you will know them by their character".

Yes but people have minds of their own. Character is what MLK said about his people. Even his people don't want to follow it.

 

[timothyu]

You missed the opening of the verse. It was not Job who built his flock ....

Yes.. agreed. I just assume anyone who claims Christianity knows where everything they are and have cones from.