Should we listen or learn from Christians who are millionaires?

[Bible Highlighter]

How about if you just tell us what is enough? Is having a 2 bedroom house too much? A rented apartment would be less. A motel room would supply all of my needs. Maybe even live in a van. Is living beyond that too luxurious? After all, Jesus didn't have a home at all.

As for saved money, what dollar amount is enough/too much? Let's set some boundaries so we don't have to quibble anymore about what is too much.

Well, you don't seem to understand the difference between the middle class vs say rich millionaires. It sounds like you are trying to justify over excess of wealth as being okay with God when others can use those resources. Anything that you are not using (as far as meeting basic needs, food, shelter), you should give to others or help others in some way with it. Hoarding on to treasures here in this life is all about YOU and yourself and nobody else. If you are single and you have 4 bedrooms extra in a home and they are not being used to help anyone but yourself, that is excessive and selfish. It really comes down to what are your resources being invested towards in the moment or to use as a part of preaching the gospel. If a person has millions, they do not need to work ever again in their life. They are rich, and have an over excessive amount of resources. Again, the Parable of the Rich Fool in Luke 12 condemns the idea of taking one's ease and being merry as a part of accumulating great wealth. The choice is whether or not you believe such a parable at face value or not.

 

[Strong in Him]

Read the Parable of the Poor Widow (See Mark 12:41-44).

Read it - and?

What exactly are you saying?
Because when I wrote a post about giving up all our money, living in poverty and relying on others for food etc, your reply was " *sigh*, when did I say anything about not having money? Of course we need money to pay taxes and so on."
Now I've written a post about wealthy people helping others out with their wealth, saying that, compared to some, we don't even NEED what we would consider to be important and saying that going into poverty wouldn't help anyone, and your response is "read the parable of the poor widow."

Are you saying that Christians HAVE to give up ALL their possessions, and money, to follow Christ, or not?
If we don't, how much will you "permit" us to have - not that you are the final authority, of course?
Or are you just having a rant against those who seem to have an obscene amount of wealth? If so, you may have a point - the amount footballers and film stars get paid, for example, is ridiculous. But then, as I said, those of them who aren't Christians belong to the world, and, imo, are to be pitied because money, possessions and fame seems to be all they have.
Those who are wealthy Christians are, I'm sure, doing a lot of good with their money - because they now serve a different Master and know that their money has been given to them for a reason.
You could sit back and say, "they should be doing this/have this attitude towards it", but their money - like every other part of their Christian life - is between them and God, and not for us to get judgemental about.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Read it - and?

What exactly are you saying?
Because when I wrote a post about giving up all our money, living in poverty and relying on others for food etc, your reply was " *sigh*, when did I say anything about not having money? Of course we need money to pay taxes and so on."
Now I've written a post about wealthy people helping others out with their wealth, saying that, compared to some, we don't even NEED what we would consider to be important and saying that going into poverty wouldn't help anyone, and your response is "read the parable of the poor widow."

Are you saying that Christians HAVE to give up ALL their possessions, and money, to follow Christ, or not?
If we don't, how much will you "permit" us to have - not that you are the final authority, of course?
Or are you just having a rant against those who seem to have an obscene amount of wealth? If so, you may have a point - the amount footballers and film stars get paid, for example, is ridiculous. But then, as I said, those of them who aren't Christians belong to the world, and, imo, are to be pitied because money, possessions and fame seems to be all they have.
Those who are wealthy Christians are, I'm sure, doing a lot of good with their money - because they now serve a different Master and know that their money has been given to them for a reason.
You could sit back and say, "they should be doing this/have this attitude towards it", but their money - like every other part of their Christian life - is between them and God, and not for us to get judgemental about.

A lot of your questions have already been answered in this thread.
You are also appear to be reacting with emotion and you are not reading the parable. Moving on from talking to you for a while.

May God bless you.

 

[usexpat97]

It sounds like you are trying to justify over excess of wealth as being okay with God when others can use those resources.

Except per the parable of the talents, the millionaires may very well be the ones who can use them best. A lot of people have no money because they can't manage it. Robin Hood isn't going to be able to help those people.

 

[Anthony2019]

If I needed to take financial advice to solve a specific practical issue then yes, but if it was for spiritual reasons then it would be no, because all I need to know is already found in the scriptures.

 

[Strong in Him]

A lot of your questions have already been answered in this thread.
You are also appear to be reacting with emotion and you are not reading the parable. Moving on from talking to you for a while.

May God bless you.

I wish you wouldn't do that - decide not to talk to me rather than answer my questions.
Unless, of course, you can't answer my questions and want to hide the fact.

When you say, "of course we all need money", and later say "read the parable of the poor widow" (who, as you know, gave up everything), I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask you to clarify your position.
Come on; black and white - how much money is it permissible for a Christian to have, and why?

No evading answers, such as "most people, when they hear the word 'rich' think of $millions, 3 cars etc". Never mind what "most people" think - according to Scripture, how much money are Christians allowed to have and earn? And what possessions are we "allowed" to have?

 

[usexpat97]

according to Scripture, how much money are Christians allowed to have and earn? And what possessions are we "allowed" to have?

90% of it.

 

[usexpat97]

.

 

[Strong in Him]

90% of it.

We're allowed to have 90% of our money?
Strange, that - Scripture teaches that all that we have is from God, and we are to honour and serve him with it.

(And the Bible does not say a) that tithing is money, or b) that Christians have to tithe. But that's a different subject.)

 

[usexpat97]

No need to make it complicated or rationalize. The tithe is 10%. 10% of a little is a little, 10% of a lot is a lot. If one is faithful with their tithe and God blesses them for it financially, then they are entitled to it. And if you are envious, then it is you in sin--not them.

 

[Strong in Him]

No need to make it complicated or rationalize. The tithe is 10%. 10% of a little is a little, 10% of a lot is a lot. If one is faithful with their tithe and God blesses them for it financially, then they are entitled to it. And if you are envious, then it is you in sin--not them.

I'm not; I'm saying that the NT doesn't teach tithing. The believers shared all their possessions, not 10% of them.
Though that is another topic and I don't want to derail this thread.

 

[usexpat97]

Giving is not under compulsion, and that is NT. And if the givers are not compelled, then neither are the recipients entitled.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Unless somebody offers something substantial with Scripture, I am moving on.

To all I say this:

 

[RaymondG]

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

 

[usexpat97]

I would assume you already know the Scripture about giving without compulsion, but okay:

2 Cor. 9:7
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver

 

[Strong in Him]

Unless somebody offers something substantial with Scripture, I am moving on.

What Scripture do you want?
If someone tells you that Job and Solomon were wealthy and that the Lord gave them their riches, you say, "ah yes, but that's OT; under the old covenant" - as if it doesn't count.
I asked if you were saying that we should all give our money away, and pointed out that Jesus and the disciples had money - a purse, of which Judas was in charge, and you say "it's not having money that's the problem, everyone needs money."
Yet I wrote about wealthy Christians who help others with their money, and you told me to read about the poor widow.
I've no doubt that if someone found a Biblical example of people having money and helping others, you'd find an explanation for it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

 

[Strong in Him]

Are you ever going to admit that you can't answer people's questions?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am not debating or discussing this issue with people who are unwilling to see it, and or who will not offer substantial verses to prove their case.

May God bless you.

 

[Strong in Him]

I am not debating or discussing this issue with people who are unwilling to see it, and or who will not offer substantial verses to prove their case.

May God bless you.

What do you want us to "see"?

That extreme wealth can be bad, become a god or an idol and make it hard for someone to enter the Kingdom of heaven?
We've said that.
That Christians SHOULD give all their money and possessions, like the poor widow?
A bit hard to understand that point of view when you yourself have conceded that we all need money.

Or do you want us to say, "yes, you're right, Jason - those who are filthy rich are all selfish, materialistic, pleasure seeking people who never think of others and will be condemned for it?"
Well sorry, but that's not true.