Should we listen or learn from Christians who are millionaires?

[Der Alte]

In response to the OP. It depends on where and how a person who has this world's riches utilizes those riches. The pertinent scriptures have already been posted in this thread. Back in the 70s I was recently retired and 2 well known, very wealthy TV preachers were brought down by their own misdeeds. One of those who was in North Carolina, let's call him J.B., had gold fixtures in his bathrooms, when he was criticized for his opulent lifestyle, I heard him say, "I don't think God wants me living in a pile of trash." Jesus said, "The Son of man has not where to lay His head."
Then the other one whom I will call J.S. a reporter went to a seedy part of New Orleans and was interviewing independent female contractors. He showed one a picture of J.S. and asked her if she knew who he was. She said "Yes, he gets on T.V. cries and asks for more money so he can come down here and spend it on us." I don't think I will be seeking any advice from either one.

 

[BeyondET]

This could be in reference to his reputation of his past life of being a rich man.

It could be like saying, Bill gates a rich man became a disciple of Jesus Christ.
Obviously Jesus would have told Bill to put his treasures in heaven And not here on this earth, and to sell his possessions and give them to the poor because of his trust in riches. If Bill did what Jesus said, Bill still could have a reputation in the eyes of other people that he was rich even if he gave everything away to follow Jesus.

Besides, you cannot honesty with a straight face say that they were putting their treasures in Heaven and not on this Earth if they had great wealth dedicated solely for their own selfish purposes and not towards the Kingdom of God.

But keep in mind Jesus said it is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom.
That’s a fact of Scripture that you can try to do black flip twists through the air through hoops of fire to try and avoid.
1 Timothy 6 basically warns us to chase after righteousness and not riches because the danger is great to pierce yourself through with many sorrows. That would not be possible if one was not rich.
Also, just because somebody is a disciple does not mean that they are right with God.

John 6:66
“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”

Judas was a disciple but he obviously was not saved in the end by what he did.

But I am not really the one that should convince you.
The Scriptures should.

Joseph gave his tomb to Jesus. Are you saying Joseph wasn't right with God?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I know all this...again you do not address the issues and passages I bring up.
After Jesus states the passage you cite...short on time here... that it is hard for the rich to inherit eternal life...He also states "all things are possible with God"
Also, if we cannot even listen and learn spiritual matters from the rich on the basis of them being wealthy, I Timothy's stipulations for deacons and elders in the church would add something akin to...he must not be rich or wealthy.
Also, one man sees another man's means as wealth, while one man does not...how do you define wealthy or rich? And, how does one man gain his wealth?
No, I say, make a right judgment according to one's spiritual gifts and not according to his means and rebuke where necessary. Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.

But one set of verses does not undo the others that are clear that one cannot be selfish by being rich. Granted, when I say rich, I am talking about those people who have more money than know what to do with and they never have to really ever work at a job, etcetera.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In response to the OP. It depends on where and how a person who has this world's riches utilizes those riches. The pertinent scriptures have already been posted in this thread. Back in the 70s I was recently retired and 2 well known, very wealthy TV preachers were brought down by their own misdeeds. One of those who was in North Carolina, let's call him J.B., had gold fixtures in his bathrooms, when he was criticized for his opulent lifestyle, I heard him say, "I don't think God wants me living in a pile of trash." Jesus said, "The Son of man has not where to lay His head."
Then the other one whom I will call J.S. a reporter went to a seedy part of New Orleans and was interviewing independent female contractors. He showed one a picture of J.S. and asked her if she knew who he was. She said "Yes, he gets on T.V. cries and asks for more money so he can come down here and spend it on us." I don't think I will be seeking any advice from either one.

Great post.

May God bless you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Joseph gave his tomb to Jesus. Are you saying Joseph wasn't right with God?

No, I am saying that he either had a past reputation (despite his new change of life in following Jesus and not riches), OR God knew he may in time give it all up in service to Him. Think. God does not always just look at the moment we are in now. God can see 20 moves ahead.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes and people are quick to collect the ideals of politics, finance, consumerism, etc. the very things that run contrary to the ideals of the Kingdom. It is what is behind these ideals that corrupts and it is not money.

I believe Christians who truly walk with God will in time learn to only want Jesus and. His good ways and nothing else. This does not mean we may not desire to secure our current finances in order to do the Lord’s work but our focus is not money, money, money, but it’s the Lord Jesus and His Word and loving others. Our life will be more and more selfless and not selfish. Being rich is about being selfish and not selfless. Granted, I am not saying we cannot ask God for help in accomplishing a project that does require money, but that would just go right back to God and or to help our family. No great hoarding of green or gold should ever be in the mind of a believer. We are to seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these things (basic needs) will be added unto us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Certainly so, brother. I recently talked to a brother from my country, who himself discussed with another brother who had written LOADS of sermons. He was amazed, but the brother who wrote those sermons responded that he also had to be cautious not to be overcome by pride.

Yes, we must always be humble. I believe we must each follow the path set before us. Some Christians prefer not to have anything and even live a very minimalist lifestyle. Other Christians believe they can bless others with what they have. My Christian DVD’s are a means to hand out to others. My various different bibles are a means to study the Word and draw closer to the knowledge of my Savior. But we brought nothing in this world, and we can take nothing out with us.

 

[BeyondET]

No, I am saying that he either had a past reputation (despite his new change of life in following Jesus and not riches), OR God knew he may in time give it all up in service to Him. Think. God does not always just look at the moment we are in now. God can see 20 moves ahead.

He was part of the council probably before he knew of Jesus. nothing is said that he gave it all up or had too.

Do people today need to give up money, house, computer, cell phone, to serve God.

 

[timothyu]

Do people today need to give up money, house, computer, cell phone, to serve God.

No, but they need to give up pursuit the selfish ways of man and pursue the ways of the Kingdom.

 

[BeyondET]

No, but they need to give up pursuit the selfish ways of man and pursue the ways of the Kingdom.

Good point and can be done even with a computer imo.

 

[timothyu]

Good point and can be done even with a computer imo.

Certainly. Lonely people just need friends and they can be online. (long as they are wary). A friend will ask for nothing.

 

[BeyondET]

Certainly. Lonely people just need friends and they can be online. (long as they are wary). A friend will ask for nothing.

Indeed better to give than ask, is jubilant.

 

[timothyu]

Indeed better to give than ask, is jubilant.

Yes, true giving is not of things but of self.

 

[timothyu]

Indeed better to give than ask, is jubilant.

Yes, true giving is not of things but of self.

Goods = Things
17 But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?

So how come everybody is sending earthquake money to Turkey, but hardly any to Syria?

 

[timothyu]

I do not know anyone who is sending money to Turkey nor to Syria.

Ok... shirts (although most seem to be in need of shoes)

 

[Ceallaigh]

I don't think it matters. Probably most millionaires supply jobs to many and perform big money acts of philanthropy. I heard one of my cousins is a millionaire. But I remember hearing a long time before that, how he was better at looking after others than getting stuff for himself. So my guess is he contributes quite a lot.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

But one set of verses does not undo the others that are clear that one cannot be selfish by being rich. Granted, when I say rich, I am talking about those people who have more money than know what to do with and they never have to really ever work at a job, etcetera.

Now I see who you are addressing and your answers are more applicable.
As for one set of passages not canceling out others...certainly not...all must be considered however and not to write anyone off as a Christian.