Should we give expecting something in return?

[probinson]

Paul wrote, Was I wrong when I humbled myself and honored you by preaching God’s Good News to you without expecting anything in return? (2 Cor. 11.7) His motivation for giving himself to the Corinthians for the sake of the Gospel was not something he expected to be rewarded for.

Paul also wrote this;

Phillipians 3:14 (AMP)
I press on toward the goal to win the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward.
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EVERYTHING Paul did, he did because he was pressing toward the "goal", to win the prize. It's pretty obvious that he expected to be rewarded.

And that is my point. Paul expected nothing from the Corinthians, but he sure expected to win a prize from God.

 

[JimB]

No, they do not contradict each other, because one is talking about giving and the other about lending. Since giving and lending are two totally different things, there cannot be a contradiction.

That said, the premise for the thread is a good one.

I've found in church circles there's typically three motivations for giving/not giving.

In no particular order:

1) Giving/withholding for power or making a statement

Giving: motivated by "see how much I give". They think their giving gives them a special place or the pastor's ear.

Withholding: I don't agree with what the church is doing with the money, so I'm not giving.

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2) Giving/withholding because of some formula

Giving: If I give this - then because of that - I'll get this back. Sort of like if I say and do all the right things, I'll get some great benefit from it.

Withholding: I don't believe/tried that and it has tainted my view of giving to anyone.

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3) Giving as an act of worship and hearing from God to give. This IMO is freedom! I can hear from God on what to give and whom to give it to and once it leaves my hand, I've accomplish it's purpose and my motivation.

I agree with what Charles said:



I think it's part of human nature to expect something from an action. Even Jesus expected something every time He did something.

John 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.”
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Jesus EXPECTED for Father to be pleased with Him and that was His motivation.

See my previous post.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

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[JimB]

Paul also wrote this;

Phillipians 3:14 (AMP)
I press on toward the goal to win the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward.
​

EVERYTHING Paul did, he did because he was pressing toward the "goal", to win the prize. It's pretty obvious that he expected to be rewarded.

And that is my point. Paul expected nothing from the Corinthians, but he sure expected to win a prize from God.

Again, was the fact that he was to be rewarded the motivation for Paul’s service to others and to God or was it love that constrained him? The recognition that he would receive a reward does not add up to it being what constrained his service to God, IMO.

For the record, I firmly believe that God will reward me for my service here and I know that He rewards me everyday for what I do (I mean, I do have air to breathe, food to eat, and water to drink, don’t I?—and having food and drink aren’t I to be content?) and his rewards are a generous as He is.

For example, I am paid to pastor a church but when I asked God for permission to plant our present church I would have paid for the privilege of doing it. Being paid for doing what I love and would do for nothing is just a perk God grants me. I am grateful, of course, but have never considered it an entitlement.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

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[Always in His Presence]

See my previous post.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

I did - and mine was in response to the op.

Thanks anyway

 

[probinson]

Again, was the fact that he was to be rewarded the motivation for Paul’s service to others and to God or was it love that constrained him? The recognition that he would receive a reward does not add up to it being what constrained his service to God, IMO.

Paul did not merely "recognize" that he would be rewarded. He wrote that he "pressed on toward the goal". That is not a mere recognition of a reward. He also wrote of "winning the prize". Again, not just a mere recognition of his reward, but an active pursuit of pressing toward that goal.

 

[JimB]

Paul did not merely "recognize" that he would be rewarded. He wrote that he "pressed on toward the goal". That is not a mere recognition of a reward. He also wrote of "winning the prize". Again, not just a mere recognition of his reward, but an active pursuit of pressing toward that goal.

Sure. But that does not say that goal was his motivation. It simply says that he kept pressing on toward what he knew would be the prize, which BTW, was not material rewards but “the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.” That might very well include material reward, but necessarily. One person’s prize/goal might not be another’s.

For Paul, his prize was those who converted to Christ: For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming? 1 Thess. 2.19

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

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[map4]

I think everyone is saying the same thing in different words.

I haven't seen anyone whose sole reason or motivation in giving is to 'get something back'...in a greedy sense, anyway.

It seems like everyone gives for the same reasons...out of love for God, wanting to please and obey Him. Showing or giving to others freely what we have been shown or given.

And everyone has agreed that God does reward us.

It just seems like some are not afraid to say that they expect it and others don't want to seem like they're being greedy if they do say that they expect it to happen.

I think how we define the word 'expect' plays a huge role in this discussion.

Expect (from dictionary.com)
–verb (used with object)
1.to look forward to; regard as likely to happen; anticipate the occurrence or the coming of: I expect to read it. I expect him later. She expects that they will come.
2.to look for with reason or justification: We expect obedience.

One definition of the word is more 'demanding' than the other.

Expecting something to happen doesn't have to mean someone is being greedy. Or that it's the motive for doing something.

It's just believing what God said and doing what He said.
Why must we assume greediness or selfishness in others when they do that?

 

[JimB]

Probably. But I do think there is a certain sense of entitlement taught by some prominent televangelist “teachers” who use selective and isolated proof texts to teach that because we are “king’s kids” we are entitled to privilege, wealth, health, and a general life of luxury on this planet—all the privileges of the Christian life without any of the responsibilities. Even a battery has to have a negative pole as well as a positive to produce a single watt power. Not everything that happens to Christians (or is meant to happen) is pleasant. In fact, sometimes it is rather painful (Heb. 12.11).

Ergo, when we give we should give without the thought of what we are getting in return for our gift (that is entitlement) but for the sheer joy of giving to others (i.e., faith) even those who do not deserve it (i.e., grace).

IMO, of course.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

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[brinny]

Paul did not merely "recognize" that he would be rewarded. He wrote that he "pressed on toward the goal". That is not a mere recognition of a reward. He also wrote of "winning the prize". Again, not just a mere recognition of his reward, but an active pursuit of pressing toward that goal.

and what was the "prize" he was speaking of?

 

[BenAdam]

From an older song:

Contestant:
Well, I know what I want, I know what I need
I want a miracle, I know what I need
I know what I want, I know what I need, give me a
Johnny Jacobs: (A new car!)
Contestant: I know what I need, give me a
Johnny Jacobs: (A new car!)
Contestant: I'm one of the kings kids
Kings kids: (He wants a blessing)
Contestant: I'm one of the kings kids
Kings kids: (He wants a blessing)
Contestant: I do deserve the best
Kings kids: (Keep on confessing)
Contestant: The very, very, very, very
Kings Kids: (na-na-na-na-na)
Contestant: Very, very best, I'm one of the king's kids
I deserve the best, I want a
Johnny Jacobs: (A new car!)
Contestant: Well, make it a convertible
Game Show Girl: (Be more specific)
Contestant: Mag-wheels and tinted glass
Game Show Girl: (Uh-huh)
Contestant: Radio and air-co
Game Show Girl: (Woo-yeah)
Contestant: I know what I need, give me a
Johnny Jacobs: (A new station wagon!)
Contestant: I'm one of the kings kids
Kings Kids: (NA-NA-NA-NA-NA)
Contestant: I'm one of the kings kids
Kings Kids: (NA-NA-NA-NA-NA)
Contestant: I do deserve the best
Kings Kids: A ewna Arca {backward 'pig latin' masking}
Contestant: The very, very, very, very best,
I'm one of the king's kids, I deserve the best, I want a
Johnny Jacobs: (A new car!)

 

[probinson]

and what was the "prize" he was speaking of?

Irrelevant.

The premise I see being promoted here is that we should give expecting *nothing* in return, but it is very obvious that Paul was expecting, even pursuing, a prize (regardless of what that prize was) in all that he did. IOW, there was something in it for him. Now there's a statement that will mess with someone's religion.

It all goes back to believing that God is a rewarder. There is an expectation that comes along with that.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
and what was the "prize" he was speaking of?

Irrelevant.

The premise I see being promoted here is that we should give expecting *nothing* in return, but it is very obvious that Paul was expecting, even pursuing, a prize (regardless of what that prize was) in all that he did. IOW, there was something in it for him. Now there's a statement that will mess with someone's religion.

It all goes back to believing that God is a rewarder. There is an expectation that comes along with that.

the race he was running with all that he had in him was for something he valued more than his own life. The "prize" he was speaking of is what we all run this blood, sweat, and tears race with all that is in us, for from the gitgo. It is to see Him, His face. To hear Him say "well done thou good and faithful servant."

It is not irrelevant. It is the only motivation to run such a race.

 

[probinson]

It is not irrelevant. It is the only motivation to run such a race.

It is highly irrelevant to the question of the OP. The OP asks the question "Should we give expecting something in return?" The answer? Yes. To quote your response; "...It is to see Him, His face. To hear Him say 'well done thou good and faithful servant'..."

IOW, you expect to see Him, His face, and to hear Him say, "well done". So when you give, are you expecting something? By your own words here, you most certainly are.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
It is not irrelevant. It is the only motivation to run such a race.

It is highly irrelevant to the question of the OP. The OP asks the question "Should we give expecting something in return?" The answer? Yes. To quote your response; "...It is to see Him, His face. To hear Him say 'well done thou good and faithful servant'..."

IOW, you expect to see Him, His face, and to hear Him say, "well done". So when you give, are you expecting something? By your own words here, you most certainly are.

the "prize" is not "getting" something. It is to finally see Him face to face. To see Him at the end of that long wearying race, waiting at the end of it.

Where He will wipe all tears from our eyes, where there will be no more pain, no more sorrow, where we find rest in His embrace, and where Abba Himself rejoices over us with singing.

 

[Charles L. Blackman]

the "prize" is not "getting" something. It is to finally see Him face to face. To see Him at the end of that long wearying race, waiting at the end of it.

Where He will wipe all tears from our eyes, where there will be no more pain, no more sorrow, where we find rest in His embrace, and where Abba Himself rejoices over us with singing.

Isn't that expecting in return?

 

[probinson]

the "prize" is not "getting" something. It is to finally see Him face to face. To see Him at the end of that long wearying race, waiting at the end of it.

Where He will wipe all tears from our eyes, where there will be no more pain, no more sorrow, where we find rest in His embrace, and where Abba Himself rejoices over us with singing.

Boy, if that isn't getting something, I don't know what is!

You "get" to see Him face to face. You "get" to see Him waiting for you at the end of the race. You "get" to have Him wipe all the tears from your eyes. You "get" no more pain. You "get" no more sorrow. You "get" eternal rest in His embrace. You "get" to see Him rejoice over you with singing.

These are the kinds of things that you "get". It seems some people are saying it's wrong to expect that, that we should just give because... I guess because we think we're so selfless.

In fact, the only way I know how to give "selflessly" is to look at the example given by my Father. Because of His example in giving, I know how to give "selflessly". Without His example, I would not have a clue how to give.

But as your post shows, we most definitely "get" something from being God's children. Psalm 103 reminds us to "forget not all His benefits". Hebrews tells us we must see God as a "rewarder". The idea that we should give expecting *nothing* is 100% contrary to these scriptures.

You can try to word it however you want. The bottom line is, there are benefits to serving God, and it's not wrong to have a healthy expectation of those benefits.

 

[brinny]

It's not for "benefits". It's for Him. He doesn't "owe" us anything. There are those who seek what He can give, His hand. There are those who seek His face.

 

[Charles L. Blackman]

This reminds me of the guy who was so humble, the whole town decided to honor his humility. They threw a parade and had a special awards dinner.

His name was called and as he walked forward with tears of gratitude in his eyes, the comittee stop the proceedings and confiscated the plaque saying it was prideful to accept a plaque and all this attention and on further consideration they determined he was not humble at all.

 

[probinson]

It's not for "benefits". It's for Him. He doesn't "owe" us anything. There are those who seek what He can give, His hand. There are those who seek His face.

You can not separate what God DOES from who God IS.

From a post I made here almost 3 years ago;

He IS my Father.
He IS Lord of all.
He IS King of Kings.
He IS Lord of Lords.
He IS my savior.
He IS my healer.
He IS my comforter.
He IS my provider.
He IS my peace.
He IS my joy.
He IS my Strong Tower.
He IS my Shepherd.
He IS my strength.
He IS my salvation.
He IS my counselor.
He IS my protector.
He IS the air I breathe.
He IS the Creator.
He IS the Giver of Life.
He IS His Word.
He IS Great.
He IS Mighty.
He IS Love.
He IS Compassion.
He IS Grace.
He IS Mercy.
He IS Goodnes.
He IS Kindness.
He IS Truth.
He IS Light.

He IS the Great I AM.

He IS all of those things, and so much more.

Let me ask you, since you say it's not for His benefits. Are you suggesting that Psalm 103 is incorrect, and we SHOULD forget His benefits?

I am not ashamed to admit that I need God's face AND God's hand for without either, I am nothing.

 

[probinson]

This reminds me of the guy who was so humble, the whole town decided to honor his humility. They threw a parade and had a special awards dinner.

His name was called and as he walked forward with tears of gratitude in his eyes, the comittee stop the proceedings and confiscated the plaque saying it was prideful to accept a plaque and all this attention and on further consideration they determined he was not humble at all.

What a perfect analogy!