Should we give expecting something in return?

[brinny]

I always give with the expectation of getting.

But I always get with the expectation of giving, so it all balances.

How can you read Luke 6.38 and not realize there is some getting in there? In fact in a 40 word Scripture, one word talking about giving and 39 about getting.

Blessings,
Ben

the getting, of course, is seeing His face, at last, is it not? Is that not why we have our breath, our life, our being?

 

[ComingWitDaBig3]

One aspect that I've notice amongst hearing the accounts of many christians allows me to make one conclusion:
I should serve the Lord correctly b/c he gave me life and as a christian slavation thus I should not expect nothing in return due to the things that he has given me.

There is a verse in the bible, I forgot its location, in which states that everything will be given to us as addition. (If anyone can find that verse I'll greatly appreciate it). Thus if we live a correct life, including not expetcing God to give us anything in return beacuse we did for what he has already given us, then I am sure that many more blessings will be added to your life.

Obedience is key, it will influnce all that big and little details of one's life.

 

[brinny]

One aspect that I've notice amongst hearing the accounts of many christians allows me to make one conclusion:
I should serve the Lord correctly b/c he gave me life and as a christian slavation thus I should not expect nothing in return due to the things that he has given me.

There is a verse in the bible, I forgot its location, in which states that everything will be given to us as addition. (If anyone can find that verse I'll greatly appreciate it). Thus if we live a correct life, including not expetcing God to give us anything in return beacuse we did for what he has already given us, then I am sure that many more blessings will be added to your life.

Obedience is key, it will influnce all that big and little details of one's life.

that verse is in the back of my memory somewhere...can't think of which one it is.....and yes, we give because it comes from a heart that becomes like His....because we are compelled to out of love without giving a thought to whether there will be a payback.....we just give because we are his children and His love flows over, spilling out from our hearts, to others.

 

[probinson]

I believe the defintion of "reward" is the problem. Many read "reward" as some kind of material benefit. I've come to realize that the "reward" is actually the object of your search. As you seek God you will gain more knowledge, experience and (most importantly) a deeper relationship (walk?) with Him. For the true disciple of Christ this a greater reward than any material blessing we could ever hope to get out of Him.

I don't disagree with this. The greatest reward I have is knowing my Savior and having a relationship with my Father. I would say, however, that it is a false dichotomy to suggest that we must believe His reward is EITHER a closer relationship with the Father OR material blessing.

But even if that were the case, given your post, it would be accurate to state that one of the motives of someone's giving would because they want a closer relationship with God.

There is nothing wrong with that, despite people who will attempt to say that we must give expecting *nothing*. The fact is, I NEED that relationship with my Father, and I'm not ashamed to admit that by giving in obedience to His voice, I *expect* that relationship to grow deeper, because I believe He is a Rewarder, and I believe He is true to His word.

 

[Charles L. Blackman]

Romans 8: 32He who, yea, has not spared his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him grant us all things?

 

[Andy S. Wright]

I would say, however, that it is a false dichotomy to suggest that we must believe His reward is EITHER a closer relationship with the Father OR material blessing.

In my own defense, I was speaking specifically about Hebrews 11:6 not about being rewarded as a whole. I find in our materialistic society when we see the word "reward" we tend to automatically think in materialistic terms. Just as the word "heal" doesn't always refer to physical health or the word "death" refer to physical death, "reward" isn't always talking about material gain.

That said, of course God blesses his children materially. I don't see God's material blessings as a kind of second-tier reward behind the reward of a deeper walk with Him. However I do believe Hebrews 11:6 is not refrencing material blessings as the "reward" of our dilligently seeking Him.

Unfortunately in today's evangelical climate, the subject of material blessings has transformed from something for God's children to enjoy to some form of spiritual leprosy, at least in some Christian circles. Surely God loves to give good gifts to his children and those gifts range from spiritual to emotional to physical or even all three in one.

The point, I believe, is to make sure our focus is on the giver and not on His gifts. The desire of God is for his blessings to bring us closer to him. I'd assume we are no different when we give a gift to someone we have a close relationship with. Sadly, the blessings of God can, and often do, become a curse as the scriptures clearly show (Revelation 3:17).

 

[probinson]

The point, I believe, is to make sure our focus is on the giver and not on His gifts. The desire of God is for his blessings to bring us closer to him. I'd assume we are no different when we give a gift to someone we have a close relationship with. Sadly, the blessings of God can, and often do, become a curse as the scriptures clearly show (Revelation 3:17).

I like what Big Daddy Weave says in his song, "Audience of One";

"...Seeking Your face, and not only Your hand..."

That, I believe, shows a perfect balance. Seeking the face of God, and not ONLY His hand. IOW, we need BOTH the face AND the hand of God.

Motive. Heart attitude. These are the keys that make all the difference.

 

[Andy S. Wright]

I like what Big Daddy Weave says in his song, "Audience of One";

"...Seeking Your face, and not only Your hand..."

That, I believe, shows a perfect balance. Seeking the face of God, and not ONLY His hand. IOW, we need BOTH the face AND the hand of God.

Motive. Heart attitude. These are the keys that make all the difference.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[brinny]

i also agree with probinson

 

[Floatingaxe]

One aspect that I've notice amongst hearing the accounts of many christians allows me to make one conclusion:
I should serve the Lord correctly b/c he gave me life and as a christian slavation thus I should not expect nothing in return due to the things that he has given me.

There is a verse in the bible, I forgot its location, in which states that everything will be given to us as addition. (If anyone can find that verse I'll greatly appreciate it). Thus if we live a correct life, including not expetcing God to give us anything in return beacuse we did for what he has already given us, then I am sure that many more blessings will be added to your life.

Obedience is key, it will influnce all that big and little details of one's life.

Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

This means that God provides for all our needs when we seek after Him and live for Him first and foremost.

 

[KingZzub]

the getting, of course, is seeing His face, at last, is it not? Is that not why we have our breath, our life, our being?

Not from the context of Luke 6.38! Unless you believe that our breath, our life, our being and seeing His face is given to us by men!

No - if you give, what is given back to you is given by men. Read the verse!

Blessings,
Ben

 

[JimB]

Not from the context of Luke 6.38! Unless you believe that our breath, our life, our being and seeing His face is given to us by men!

No - if you give, what is given back to you is given by men. Read the verse!

Blessings,
Ben

But is that why we give, so that we will get something in return for our gift? Or is Jesus simply assuring us that we need not worry about the size of our loving and gracious gifts to others because He is there to catch us if we fall; that if we give, He gives also, and His gifts (whatever they are) are much more bountiful than ours?


The following is from another thread:

If my only purpose for serving Christ was what I could get out of it, then Christianity for me would always be frustrating.

If my loyalty to Jesus were determined by an ego-centered foundation of what He continued to give to me, then, sure, I would probably throw in the towel at the very first trial of faith I encountered.

If my Christianity were built on any sense of entitlement I would probably eventually give up.

Early in my Christian walk, when my faith was more centered on receiving than giving or of receiving because I gave, I got discouraged and thought Christianity was too tough. But when I grew to the point that I felt I would serve Christ, because of who He is—period!!—not for what He did for me, I discovered what He meant when He said His yoke was easy and His burden was light.

I serve my children and grandchildren, not because of what they do for me but simply because I love them—period!!—and the more I love them, the more I am want to serve them just for the sake of serving them, not for anything they do for me. If my love and service were based on it being reciprocal, I might not love or serve them as much as I do—especially them darned grandkids!!
​

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

 

[GrapeGirl]

How do you seek God then Grapegirl?

Does your walk of faith not include giving? Yes, seeking God is more than giving, but it definitely includes it.

Seek God does not mean go looking for Him - He dwells within us, He is not lost! It means to walk with God in a way in which His life inside us can flow out. That cannot be done without giving.

Blessings,
Ben

Sure I give....but that's not how I seek God. That's how I walk with Him and serve. It is not motivated by "God will bless me if I do this". It's motivated by "I love Jesus, so this is what I do".

 

[GrapeGirl]

Ah, but as you seek God, He may well tell you to give.

Then my motivation to give is out of obedience and because I love God I want to obey Him... I don't see the point you're trying to make.

 

[brinny]

Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

This means that God provides for all our needs when we seek after Him and live for Him first and foremost.

exactly

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
the getting, of course, is seeing His face, at last, is it not? Is that not why we have our breath, our life, our being?

Not from the context of Luke 6.38! Unless you believe that our breath, our life, our being and seeing His face is given to us by men!

No - if you give, what is given back to you is given by men. Read the verse!

Blessings,
Ben

huh?

 

[probinson]

Then my motivation to give is out of obedience and because I love God I want to obey Him... I don't see the point you're trying to make.

The point is, scripture says we must believe that God is a rewarder of those that seek Him. So when God speaks to us and says, "Give that guy over there $100. I know you need that $100 for your electric bill, but give it to him, and I'll make sure your electric bill is taken care of.", it is not wrong to *expect* God to fulfill that.

Motivation in our giving is very important. But what I see being suggested in this thread by some is that we should expect *nothing* for our giving. While this is true of my giving to you, (i.e. if I give you something, I should expect nothing in return from you), it is not at all true of our relationship with God. It is not wrong to *expect* that God will reward us, in innumerable ways, as we walk with Him and follow after His voice. In fact, Hebrews tells us that we MUST believe this. I MUST believe that as I am obedient to God in my giving, that He will reward that. That may well include a financial reward. It may be a deeper relationship with Him, or a greater revelation of His Love. Whatever that *reward* is, I MUST believe that by seeking God in my giving, He rewards that.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The point is, scripture says we must believe that God is a rewarder of those that seek Him. So when God speaks to us and says, "Give that guy over there $100. I know you need that $100 for your electric bill, but give it to him, and I'll make sure your electric bill is taken care of.", it is not wrong to *expect* God to fulfill that.

Motivation in our giving is very important. But what I see being suggested in this thread by some is that we should expect *nothing* for our giving. While this is true of my giving to you, (i.e. if I give you something, I should expect nothing in return from you), it is not at all true of our relationship with God. It is not wrong to *expect* that God will reward us, in innumerable ways, as we walk with Him and follow after His voice. In fact, Hebrews tells us that we MUST believe this. I MUST believe that as I am obedient to God in my giving, that He will reward that. That may well include a financial reward. It may be a deeper relationship with Him, or a greater revelation of His Love. Whatever that *reward* is, I MUST believe that by seeking God in my giving, He rewards that.

I said that earlier, and you of course, said it so well! I expect only good things in my life when I obey the King. He promises that, and He's good for it! And guess what? The blessings I receive spur me on to give more and more, and more willingly each opportunity I am given.

 

[JimB]

The point is, scripture says we must believe that God is a rewarder of those that seek Him. So when God speaks to us and says, "Give that guy over there $100. I know you need that $100 for your electric bill, but give it to him, and I'll make sure your electric bill is taken care of.", it is not wrong to *expect* God to fulfill that.

Motivation in our giving is very important. But what I see being suggested in this thread by some is that we should expect *nothing* for our giving. While this is true of my giving to you, (i.e. if I give you something, I should expect nothing in return from you), it is not at all true of our relationship with God. It is not wrong to *expect* that God will reward us, in innumerable ways, as we walk with Him and follow after His voice. In fact, Hebrews tells us that we MUST believe this. I MUST believe that as I am obedient to God in my giving, that He will reward that. That may well include a financial reward. It may be a deeper relationship with Him, or a greater revelation of His Love. Whatever that *reward* is, I MUST believe that by seeking God in my giving, He rewards that.

It probably boils down to personal disposition. Right or wrong, I seldom give expecting something in return for my gift. Of course, it happens. God is a rewarder, I agree, and I am grateful, but my purpose in giving is something quite apart from what I receive from giving. Maybe that comes from my parents’ values and the way I was raised but it is the way I give and I feel, as others who disagree with me also do, that I have more than one scriptural leg to stand on to defend my approach to giving.

In reading John’s statement in 1 John 3.17, If someone has enough money to live well and sees a brother or sister in need but shows no compassion—how can God’s love be in that person?, the motivation for our giving seems to be love and compassion, not what I am going to get out of helping my brother/sister.

Paul wrote, Was I wrong when I humbled myself and honored you by preaching God’s Good News to you without expecting anything in return? (2 Cor. 11.7) His motivation for giving himself to the Corinthians for the sake of the Gospel was not something he expected to be rewarded for.

Also, when he told the Romans,Since the Gentiles received the spiritual blessings of the Good News from the believers in Jerusalem, they feel the least they can do in return is to help them financially (Rom. 15.27),he was not holding out to them some promise that they would be rewarded for their giving but that they should consider it a debt of love. They should give for that purpose, not because they knew God would reward them for their gift even though, I am sure, they felt that God would. IOW, their motivation was love not in what they would personally receive from their act.

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.​

 

[Always in His Presence]

Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”(Luke 6.38)

Give -
1) to give
2) to give something to someone
a) of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
1) to bestow a gift
b) to grant, give to one asking, let have
c) to supply, furnish, necessary things
d) to give over, deliver

​

What I believe (i.e., my interpretation) is that Jesus is encouraging generosity, not greediness.

The reason I mention this is that I recently heard a prominent televangelist say that it was dumb for us to give without expecting something in return—what fool would do that? That view of giving did not set with me because the following scripture (which, incidentally, as it turns out, was just a few verses before the one above) came to mind:

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. (Luke 6.35).

Lend
1) to lend money
2) to have money lent to one's self
3) to take a loan, borrow

​

Do these verses contradict each other? If not, how do you explain the difference messages between these two statements?

No, they do not contradict each other, because one is talking about giving and the other about lending. Since giving and lending are two totally different things, there cannot be a contradiction.

That said, the premise for the thread is a good one.

I've found in church circles there's typically three motivations for giving/not giving.

In no particular order:

1) Giving/withholding for power or making a statement

Giving: motivated by "see how much I give". They think their giving gives them a special place or the pastor's ear.

Withholding: I don't agree with what the church is doing with the money, so I'm not giving.

​

2) Giving/withholding because of some formula

Giving: If I give this - then because of that - I'll get this back. Sort of like if I say and do all the right things, I'll get some great benefit from it.

Withholding: I don't believe/tried that and it has tainted my view of giving to anyone.

​

3) Giving as an act of worship and hearing from God to give. This IMO is freedom! I can hear from God on what to give and whom to give it to and once it leaves my hand, I've accomplish it's purpose and my motivation.

I agree with what Charles said:

In my opinion - anyone who says they give (anything, time, money etc.), and don't expect something in return is a liar.

Even if all you are expecting is a thank you or some gratitude - maybe a smile - you always expect something in return for your giving.

Just this afternoon I was eating lunch and paid the bill for tow soldiers. They didn't know who it was from and I made the waitress promise she would not tell them.

Their smile was what I was expecting - that's what I got for blessing them.

I think it's part of human nature to expect something from an action. Even Jesus expected something every time He did something.

John 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.”
​

Jesus EXPECTED for Father to be pleased with Him and that was His motivation.