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Should the GOP swing to the Center?

MrJim

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I'm not uber-political...I do consider we as Christians should participate in civic responsibility...(uber is my new word for the week)

I appreciate your input and the point Izzy presented too...but as I say...I don't like to see leadership creating more division...

I really liked what TwistedSketch noted: (mold bold emphasis)

"What we can do and should do is promote individual liberty and responsibility, and good conservative policies that will benefit every American. We really need to sell that last point."

Start treating this country once again as the United States of America...rather than the Divided Peoples of America

It's beyond that point-I think nothing short of major catastrophe could fix the current mentality, and a major catastrophe brings in its own set of complications. I firmly believe we as the Church should focus more upon the Church global and fret less on the worldly gov't local;) USA means nothing in the big scheme of things, it's just another distraction, kinda like American Idol:D
 
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Albion

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It's beyond that point-I think nothing short of major catastrophe could fix the current mentality, and a major catastrophe brings in its own set of complications. I firmly believe we as the Church should focus more upon the Church global and fret less on the worldly gov't local;) USA means nothing in the big scheme of things, it's just another distraction, kinda like American Idol:D

If Christians don't participate in public affairs, why should the GOP align itself with their social concerns (abortion, family life, moral values, etc.)?

I do believe that the GOP talked a better line than she delivered with regard to Christian evangelicals over the years and may deserve to lose them, but the party did do SOME good things in this area, too.

By the same token, GOP leaders were always wary about the staying-power of these folks who would vote in numbers in one election and stay home the next saying that worldly politics wasn't their cup of tea. A lot of evangelicals came into the party when Pat Robertson ran for President, for example....and went right back out again when he didn't get the nomination. That was just what the Party's moderates predicted!
 
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fated

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I think the GOP, in areas, allowed itself to become labeled as anti-green, anti-education, anti-science... In some cases this was actually true, but in most cases it was simply a case of unfair sliming and an unpopular president. Swinging 'to the center' does not appear to be the answer, as that failed for McCain.

The GOP should rather be the party of freedom for religion, rather than the party of freedom from religion. The Dems could be similarly labeled as oppressors of religion, which is more common in their party, but the label wouldn't be altogether fair. Both parties should support green legislation, and I think the party really is going to endorse this with a more concerted effort, including education and science. The GOP has their work cut out for them as much of the liberal culture sees a contradiciton between freedom for religion and being pro-science and pro-education, and being pro-science and anti-embryonic stem cell research. The public also doesn't understand that there is embyronic stem cell research and adult stem cell research, with adult stem cell research lacking the obstacle of moral contraversy.

The Democratics party, however, has done what it can to promise religious freedom, meanwhile killing excercise of religion in public in many cases, either by act, failure to act, or judicial selection. We suffer from the resulting chaos of attempting to make an impossible division. A clean break here is not possible, rather the difference needs to be governed, and fair. For instance, when it is Christmas, I don't see any reason to celebrate all religions, rather that we celebrate whatever religion is having a holiday... Right now it looks like a constant protest of Christmas is acceptable every Christmas because of the ridiculous rulings of the court system. For instance, why force a city hall to hang Islamic decorations during Christmas season, when they could just celebrate Rahmadan? This would actually make more sense, especially because Muslims celebrate both to some extent. The current ruling is just divisive, and it seems within the legislatures authority to make a guide that would be less divisive, although it might test judicial branch. But, the current system, wherein Christmas is celebrated only if we allow all other local religions to protest it, is not at all endearing to positive community relationships.

Obama would like to less divisive, but the reason that so many people are in the GOP has very much to do with the social conservative, and not the economic conservatism. This was used, along with fear politics (of the Dem sort), and hate practices to take the election and the legislature in the recent election, which became centered on the economy.
 
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Sketcher

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I think the GOP, in areas, allowed itself to become labeled as anti-green, anti-education, anti-science... In some cases this was actually true, but in most cases it was simply a case of unfair sliming and an unpopular president. Swinging 'to the center' does not appear to be the answer, as that failed for McCain.

The GOP should rather be the party of freedom for religion, rather than the party of freedom from religion. The Dems could be similarly labeled as oppressors of religion, which is more common in their party, but the label wouldn't be altogether fair. Both parties should support green legislation, and I think the party really is going to endorse this with a more concerted effort, including education and science. The GOP has their work cut out for them as much of the liberal culture sees a contradiciton between freedom for religion and being pro-science and pro-education, and being pro-science and anti-embryonic stem cell research. The public also doesn't understand that there is embyronic stem cell research and adult stem cell research, with adult stem cell research lacking the obstacle of moral contraversy.
Yeah, what we need are good communicators. We need to get the message out that our social/economic beliefs are not what the liberals claim they are. We need to explain why small government policies are good for everybody and aren't "uncaring." The left's claim that small government is incompatible with compassion must be shattered. After all, compassion is not what the government does, but what you and I do independent of the government. Their claims against our social policies as theocratic must also be shattered - but I wouldn't be against a change in our tactics on this front either. Like you said, we can be the party for religious freedom, for protecting innocent human life, etc. They've managed to turn the gay marriage debate into a civil rights debate, which is not a good thing. We need to discredit this notion without discrediting ourselves in the public eye. People need to be convinced of what it really is - a movement for pushing state intervention in promoting a lifestyle that many consider immoral onto everyone.
 
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Cris413

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It's beyond that point-I think nothing short of major catastrophe could fix the current mentality, and a major catastrophe brings in its own set of complications. I firmly believe we as the Church should focus more upon the Church global and fret less on the worldly gov't local;) USA means nothing in the big scheme of things, it's just another distraction, kinda like American Idol:D

It would have to be a major major catastrophy...I mean...9/11 was pretty major...on several levels...and we all came together for about 30 seconds...then yet more division...:sigh:

I totally understand where you're coming from regarding the focus of the the Body of Believers...(I say Body of Believers 'cause I'm not sure what the Church global means...:blush:)

I know we kinda differ on this...but I think our differences are minimal...:) as I too believe our faith, hope and trust lies in God and God alone...and we should certainly be more focused on and about our Father's business than we are about the world's business...

...yet I can't help but consider....as Believers "in" the world...we should be good stewards of that which is placed in our care...and that does...IMHO...included being civically minded...but yet...not civically "focused"...:sorry:

And you are so totally right...American Idol is certainly a distraction everyone could do without...^_^ :thumbsup:
 
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Cris413

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Yeah, what we need are good communicators. We need to get the message out that our social/economic beliefs are not what the liberals claim they are. We need to explain why small government policies are good for everybody and aren't "uncaring." The left's claim that small government is incompatible with compassion must be shattered. After all, compassion is not what the government does, but what you and I do independent of the government. Their claims against our social policies as theocratic must also be shattered - but I wouldn't be against a change in our tactics on this front either. Like you said, we can be the party for religious freedom, for protecting innocent human life, etc. They've managed to turn the gay marriage debate into a civil rights debate, which is not a good thing. We need to discredit this notion without discrediting ourselves in the public eye. People need to be convinced of what it really is - a movement for pushing state intervention in promoting a lifestyle that many consider immoral onto everyone.

Which is exactly the point regarding the "face" of conservatisim...should be smiling and compassionate...which it is....IMHO...just not in the terms some others recognize...
 
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fated

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Yeah, what we need are good communicators. We need to get the message out that our social/economic beliefs are not what the liberals claim they are. We need to explain why small government policies are good for everybody and aren't "uncaring." The left's claim that small government is incompatible with compassion must be shattered. After all, compassion is not what the government does, but what you and I do independent of the government. Their claims against our social policies as theocratic must also be shattered - but I wouldn't be against a change in our tactics on this front either. Like you said, we can be the party for religious freedom, for protecting innocent human life, etc. They've managed to turn the gay marriage debate into a civil rights debate, which is not a good thing. We need to discredit this notion without discrediting ourselves in the public eye. People need to be convinced of what it really is - a movement for pushing state intervention in promoting a lifestyle that many consider immoral onto everyone.
I'm trying to convert both sides to subsidiarity as the most valid way to have a merciful, compassionate, and welcoming society. By keeping the robust mechanism as local as possible, we can harbor an atmosphere of warm community more readily. In some cases it might not result in a more efficient system, but could certainly result in more net cash flow and be better for the economy anyway. Insomuch as I have been trying to sell this to all governments and officials that listen, it is likely that through the activities I have taken, and those of others, even under my leadership, that there is a mixture of people with subsidiarity in mind throughout both parties. It is one of the easiest structural methods to sell.

I propose better laws to combat other areas of disagreement, such as gay marriage. I do not support that notion that supporting gay couples is a fundamental good for society. However, I see that there is a need for persons in some life circumstances to find useful the 'efficient excercise' of the 'marital rights bundle.' I reject that the institution of marriage is comparable to other groupings of persons, for whatever reason, because the marital union is typically generative, even if less so than in previous history.

Thus, I typically appeal to the logic of the older hetero-normative philosophy on marriage, that seems to have been typical in past times in most gay communities. The belief that marriage is not fundamental to and good for society is a new idea, and false, that seems to be based in the current crisis of marriage in our society. I doubt, however, that when gay activists, see a family like mine they would rationally believe that the government should consider our groupings equivalent for government support. With many or most appearing to side with the family, and few, on the other, insulted with prospect of children destroying the Earth. I've been around the issue for a while now and there are many viewpoints here. Some gay activists are only interested in the issue to the extent were they either get into marriage, or make marriage function properly. Others are devoted to getting their rights, which is assuaged, in many cases by other institutions. I think much can be done, in these instances, to de-sexualize the institutions, thus opening up the relationships to the very common daughter cares for mother situations, often when both are elderly and widowed. For a few gay activists, this is not enough, and they demand what they see as fully equality, which most people think is naturally impossible and even dangerous for society. Whether or not the government should insist on itself defending the term marriage in the law is probably the subject for debate based on feasibility of doing so, and risk of a tragic and catastrophic loss due to the insistance. Rather, it could be best to ignore the word, and simply and logically gift heterosexual couples with the rational wedding gift. A general strengthening of the marital contract and better guide for divorce judges, including an intertwined social services institution would seem to be the most appropriate further implementation of law in this area.
 
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MrJim

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It would have to be a major major catastrophy...I mean...9/11 was pretty major...on several levels...and we all came together for about 30 seconds...then yet more division...:sigh:

I totally understand where you're coming from regarding the focus of the the Body of Believers...(I say Body of Believers 'cause I'm not sure what the Church global means...:blush:)

I know we kinda differ on this...but I think our differences are minimal...:) as I too believe our faith, hope and trust lies in God and God alone...and we should certainly be more focused on and about our Father's business than we are about the world's business...

...yet I can't help but consider....as Believers "in" the world...we should be good stewards of that which is placed in our care...and that does...IMHO...included being civically minded...but yet...not civically "focused"...:sorry:

And you are so totally right...American Idol is certainly a distraction everyone could do without...^_^ :thumbsup:

9/11 was extremely minor in relation to kind of catastrophe I'm thinking that's required to change a nation's mentality.

Civically minded will come as a side effect of proper Christian discipleship~however it will not always fit the democrat/republican template. "Sleeping with the enemy" in arranging compromises to attempt to forward an agenda via political action does not seem to be a Christian approach though. All we're attempting to do is to baptize a worldly process to gain some basic comfort in this life, i.e. preserve the "american lifestyle" we've grown accustomed to...there are bigger problems out there...


starving-child.jpg


Prisoner.jpg


The widows, orphans, sick, and above all else the lost~~our hands are full of work...
 
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Cris413

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9/11 was extremely minor in relation to kind of catastrophe I'm thinking that's required to change a nation's mentality.

Civically minded will come as a side effect of proper Christian discipleship~however it will not always fit the democrat/republican template. "Sleeping with the enemy" in arranging compromises to attempt to forward an agenda via political action does not seem to be a Christian approach though. All we're attempting to do is to baptize a worldly process to gain some basic comfort in this life, i.e. preserve the "american lifestyle" we've grown accustomed to...there are bigger problems out there...


starving-child.jpg


Prisoner.jpg


The widows, orphans, sick, and above all else the lost~~our hands are full of work...

Indeed MrJim...
 
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AnneSally

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I firmly believe we as the Church should focus more upon the Church global and fret less on the worldly gov't local;)


I totally agree with you....Was the early church concerning themselves with worldly government and politics? Were they obssessing about how worldly govt does not respresent the Church?....not from what I read in the NT, they just seemed to be getting on with advancing the Kingdom and they were facing FAR worse persecution that we ever have.....
 
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AnneSally

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If Christians don't participate in public affairs,



I think it's totally ok for Christians to participate in public affairs, but I think we tend to place too much importance on it. If the early/first Christians had concerned themselves with worldly politics as much as we do, there would be no Christianity today! I think perspective is needed.
 
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fated

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I think it's totally ok for Christians to participate in public affairs, but I think we tend to place too much importance on it. If the early/first Christians had concerned themselves with worldly politics as much as we do, there would be no Christianity today! I think perspective is needed.
I don't think its reasonable to think that we can have a just, welcoming, and merciful society if the members don't participate. Christians have had stunning and good victories for all mankind in the area of politics throughout the ages.
 
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AnneSally

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I don't think its reasonable to think that we can have a just, welcoming, and merciful society if the members don't participate. Christians have had stunning and good victories for all mankind in the area of politics throughout the ages.


Of course, I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you. I'm just making the comment that God's Kingdom is more important than any earthly kingdoms. That we should be primarily concerned with His Kingdom which must be advanced no matter what political office or govt is in place at any given time....We are to pray for His Kingdom to come, for God's will on earth as it is in heaven, so it goes without saying that some of those victories will be in the arena of politics, its just not limited to politics.
 
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Cris413

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Of course, I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you. I'm just making the comment that God's Kingdom is more important than any earthly kingdoms. That we should be primarily concerned with His Kingdom which must be advanced no matter what political office or govt is in place at any given time....

:amen:


and I would add...God's Kingdom business becomes even more paramount as we watch the world exponentially spiral downward...as politics and government seems to be expediting that decline.

:lost:
 
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re: true roots and slavery -- wasn't it the Dems that fought in favor of slavery?

I think the R's need to go BACK to their conservative roots. W was HARDLY a conservative and we can all see McCain's true colors now. R's like Palin or - locally in WA - Rossi are R's that I think can save the party. As it is now both parties are looking absolutely horrible. I find myself slapping my forehead everytime our leaders on either side open their mouths.
 
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AnneSally

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:amen:


and I would add...God's Kingdom business becomes even more paramount as we watch the world exponentially spiral downward...as politics and government seems to be expediting that decline.

:lost:



That's an excellent point, when the world is at its worst, the Church should be at its most effective as a beacon of light amidst the decay. We have to be shining the towering lighthouse and hope of Jesus Christ in the most troubled times! Because people can't put their hope in politics and govt, only in Jesus Christ as their Saviour and He alone, so when things get bad as they are now, it's a serious and urgent call to repentance!
 
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MrJim

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I totally agree with you....Was the early church concerning themselves with worldly government and politics? Were they obssessing about how worldly govt does not respresent the Church?....not from what I read in the NT, they just seemed to be getting on with advancing the Kingdom and they were facing FAR worse persecution that we ever have.....

"turned the world upside-down" from the bottom up...
 
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AnneSally

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"turned the world upside-down" from the bottom up...


and "changed the world" when it was totally against them....and not some corny Obama "change" -- they changed the course of history because of Jesus Christ, their power came from the true source, the Holy Spirit, and that's where we need to turn too, not to politics.
 
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