Should the 19th Amendment Be Repealed?

[Bradskii]

I was only reacting to your statement that you would prefer the society to be run by women, because of our testosterone.

Granted. But please take that with a grain of salt. A discussion about which gender is best suited to run the country in this thread might be considered tending towards a discussion that the vote should therefore be removed from one or the other. A discussion on the pros and cons of a matriarchal or patriarchal society can be discussed elsewhere. It has nothing to do with disenfranchising portions of society.

 

[Hammster]

That's not a fairy story. If the law was changed so that only property owners could vote then I would buy an acre of land somewhere cheap and sell a square metre to anyone who didn't own property. It's hard for me to think that anyone would take seriously the idea that it would be feasible to revert to 'property owners only' in the first instance. And not credible to think that people wouldn't realise that there'd be easy ways around it.

And you want to allow a guy in debt with a worthless trailer to vote and a billionaire who owns no property to be denied that vote.

You know what, if someone wants to go to that much trouble to get to vote, I say kudos. Right now we are hearing that voter ID laws are bad because it’s too hard for some to get one.

 

[Hammster]

So only the leadership that you want. So you get to vote plus everyone who agrees with you. As long as they are male and own property. The electoral role is getting smaller with every post.

It won’t happen, most likely. I’m just giving my opinion.

 

[Hammster]

I got the point but what this small minority wants is not going to go anywhere.

Okay.

 

[Hammster]

No fault divorce was Roman law. I don't recall Jesus speaking against it. But I think what we have here is nothing but the usual confusion between the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony and civil marriage. They are distinct. No fault divorce only can disolve civil marriage and has no effect on Canon law.

“It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
— Matthew 5:31-32

 

[Hammster]

It is.

A teacher in Boston, where housing costs are too high for him to buy one on his salary rents a condo and can't vote, while a teacher in rural Ohio who has a home sitting on a 1/4 acre piece of land can. Is that fair?

In Boston, approximately 65% of its residents are renters. Restricting voting to property owners disenfranchises 65% of that cities residents.

If the law says that only property owners can vote, then it doesn’t disenfranchise anyone. My 11 year old can’t vote. He’s not disenfranchised.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The Law of Moses contained Moral, Ceremonial and Social Laws and only ancient Israel covenants to keep those Laws.

The Moral Laws are all that apply universally and to us today.

That serves my point. Our personal hermeneutic determines what is for us moral, ceremonial and social. Sounds like the role of women would be social and not universal. But then we have not agreed on how to classify your categories, which, by the way, are not found in scripture..

 

[BCP1928]

You know what, if someone wants to go to that much trouble to get to vote, I say kudos. Right now we are hearing that voter ID laws are bad because it’s too hard for some to get one.

You're only hearing that because you are not listening carefully. Some voter ID laws are bad because they are being imposed by people who think it will be harder for some groups to get them than others.

 

[BCP1928]

“It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
— Matthew 5:31-32

Exactly. Here Jesus was specifically speaking to Jews about Jewish religious law, not Roman civil law.

 

[Chesterton]

Some voter ID laws are bad because they are being imposed by people who think it will be harder for some groups to get them than others.

I haven't heard of this. What groups are you talking about?

 

[BCP1928]

I haven't heard of this. What groups are you talking about?

Conservative state legislatures, mostly.

 

[Chesterton]

Conservative state legislatures, mostly.

Conservative state legislatures have a harder time getting ID's? What?

 

[BCP1928]

Conservative state legislatures have a harder time getting ID's? What?

I guess you haven't been paying attention. Conservative state legislatures have sometimes attempted to pass ID laws at the last minute before an election that they think will impact black people more than white people. When liberals complain of such tacticts, conservatives can falsely paint them as being opposed to voter ID in general.

 

[Chesterton]

Conservative state legislatures have sometimes attempted to pass ID laws at the last minute before an election that they think will impact black people more than white people.

How could ID laws impact black people more than white people?

 

[BCP1928]

How could ID laws impact black people more than white people?

It was thought that they (especially the elderly) might not have a suitable ID already, have more trouble assembling the paperwork necessary to get an ID. getting transportation and time off work to go to ID offices, etc. It was never as effective as conservatives who like to boast about doing it think, as there is always plenty of help for the elderly and shut-ins. It was mostly just a way for conservatves to strut their attitude.

Lately, wiser heads on both left and right who are interested in voter IDs have realized that the time to establish the identity of a voter is at registration, not at the polling place.

 

[Chesterton]

It was thought that they (especially the elderly) might not have a suitable ID already,

Why not?

have more trouble assembling the paperwork necessary to get an ID.

Why?

getting transportation and time off work to go to ID offices, etc.

Why? What's different about black people?

 

[JosephZ]

If the law says that only property owners can vote, then it doesn’t disenfranchise anyone. My 11 year old can’t vote. He’s not disenfranchised.

Your 11 year old never had a right to vote; he isn't losing anything. American citizens, whether they own property or not, have a right to vote. They are enfranchised. If you take away non-property owners' right to vote, then they become disenfranchised.

 

[BCP1928]

Why not?

For example, they are less likely to have a driver's licence, the basic form of ID in our society.

Why?

For example, in poor rural parts of the country there are still people who were born at home and for whom a birth certificate was never issued. There are ways round that difficulty but not without hiring a lawyer and going to court. In any case, if you don't have a copy of your birth certificate, getting one costs time and money. If you are married and have changed your name you need a marriage certificate as well, more time and money with an election fast approaching. Not impossible, just a little more difficult for some, to help shave the vote.

Why? What's different about black people?

They are often poor. All those things are more difficult for poor people.

 

[Chesterton]

For example, they are less likely to have a driver's licence, the basic form of ID in our society.

I didn't know that. Why are blacks less likely to have a driver's license?

For example, in poor rural parts of the country there are still people who were born at home and for whom a birth certificate was never issued. There are ways round that difficulty but not without hiring a lawyer and going to court. In any case, if you don't have a copy of your birth certificate, getting one costs time and money. If you are married and have changed your name you need a marriage certificate as well, more time and money with an election fast approaching. Not impossible, just a little more difficult for some, to help shave the vote.

They are often poor. All those things are more difficult for poor people.

All that you said could be true of lots of kinds of people. I'm just not getting your distinction between black people and other people.

 

[BCP1928]

I didn't know that. Why are blacks less likely to have a driver's license?

In poor neighborhoods they are less likely to own a car.

All that you said could be true of lots of kinds of people. I'm just not getting your distinction between black people and other people.

The distinction is that last minute ID laws are more likely to impact poor people. in some parts of the country poor people are more likely to be racial minorities.