Should Roe vs. Wade be overturned?

[Allandavid]

As for myself- absolutely. Abortion is the single greatest crime against humanity. Saint Mother Teresa rightly said, We must not be surprised when we hear of murders, of killings, of wars, of hatred. If a mother can kill her own child, what is left but for us to kill each other?

I wouldn’t be quoting someone with the morals of Theresa...

 

[Allandavid]

I voted yes, but it's a little bit more complicated than that for me. I voted yes in the sense that elective abortions should be banned.

All abortions are elective....

 

[Desk trauma]

As a mother, I believe life is sacred. I've seen and heard the testimonies of people who were not aborted. They were extremely grateful their mothers had chosen not to abort them and went on to live happy and productive lives. They were blessed their mothers chose life instead of death.

Odd to count be denied instant entry into paradise a blessing.

I do believe termination of life should be the last resort instead of the first choice. Abortion has become all too commonplace...

So common that the rate has been going down every since 1988 and is the lowest it has ever been post Roe.

 

[Desk trauma]

Overturning Roe won't change anything. Abortion is pretty much unavailable in red states now, and readily available in blue states.

I can see it spurring a race to see which red state can make it most illegal with some truly draconian restrictions on those unlucky enough to be female.

 

[grasping the after wind]

First, please vote in the poll.

Second, please give your reasons for voting the way you did.

Third, let's avoid the usual ad nauseam attacks of previous abortion discussion threads.

And that includes, but not limited to the following accusations of: "If pro-lifers did this or if pro-lifers did that..." or "If pro-choice people did this or if pro-choice people did that..." We know that discussing abortion can be a very heated and emotional debate. We also know that the legality of abortion will probably be challenged in the Supreme Court in the near future. And with being said, I'm hoping we can set aside our differences and discuss the abortion issue in a civil and respectful manner.

That's a large ask. People on both sides of this issue are emotionally invested. I think that the judicial logic in the decision in Roe v Wade was flawed. I think the majority in the case decided to go with their personal preferences of what should be above all else. I would prefer the decision was undone. I doubt it will be. Nevertheless whether it is reversed or whether it stands the issue remains and abortion will continue either everywhere in the US, if it remains in place, or in most places in the US if it is overturned. I would prefer to concentrate the efforts of the pro life faction on convincing individuals to not get themselves into situations where they feel the need to contemplate abortion. I would like to see the pro choice people in on that as so many of those that are pro choice say they are pro access but not pro abortion itself. If there is a desire to keep abortion rare then there is common ground that might be explored.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

But in saying this, you do presume to have the rights to
a) force every state to abort children on their soil

I don't really care about the rights of the states here. I care about the rights of the people.

The states should recognize that a woman's uterus and what to do with it should be her decision informed by her doctor. It's that simple. Leave it to the professionals.

I don't understand why anyone would feel a politician or state legislature would have any say in this private medical matter or how they would make the decision any better than a woman and her doctor can.

b) allow expectant mothers (and fathers) to be judge, jury and executioner over the life of another.

Because that "other life" does not have rights that supersede those of the mother to determine her own reproductive health. Her body is not something that can be given up for someone else against her will, even for her own children and until a fetus is recognized as a legal person, they don't have any rights.

You have some contradictions to work out if you wish to continue supporting Roe.

Not really. Roe v Wade determined that abortion is a private medical decision to be made between a woman and her doctor. That's what I support.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Do the women and their doctors have the right to decide what should be done with the baby?

Yes.

What's that alternative, ask the baby to make the decisions that impact the adults?

 

[dogs4thewin]

At least you didn't say "thank God", because that would have been the greatest slap in the face you could have handed to Him with that sentence. "Thank You that we aren't ruled by You!"

Every time that has been tried in this fallen world it has failed BADLY; therefore I am thankful that that is not how this country is run. Nor has it ever been the first amendment declares so.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Abortion is murder of the innocents, period.

Under the law that would depend because under the law to be murder it must be a person, so if under the law a person is defined as either having been born or after a certain time say 20 weeks along; then under a law like that before that abortion would not be murder.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Put simply, my Church teaches that abortion is a tremendous moral evil. No possible good can come from it, ever, period.

I will never stop calling for a ban to all abortions.

A lot of churches teach a lot of stuff. Should they all be used to determine domestic policy for a secular nation? I get that it informs your decisions and that's fine with me, but why should people who don't attend your church have to follow this same ideal?

 

[crossnote]

Under the law that would depend because under the law to be murder it must be a person, so if under the law a person is defined as either having been born or after a certain time say 20 weeks along; then under a law like that before that abortion would not be murder.

We don't define personhood, God does.
Maybe when we can create a person, we will have the right to define it.
There is a Higher Court than the Supreme Court.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

At least you didn't say "thank God", because that would have been the greatest slap in the face you could have handed to Him with that sentence. "Thank You that we aren't ruled by You!"

Just keep in mind that the concept of a secular government was invented by deeply religious people who didn't feel like following the edicts of other people's religions.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I would prefer a constitutional amendment granting rights to the unborn and making any law which legalizes abortions for any reason other than medical necessity unconstitutional.

so you would prefer the amendment, but would settle for the other?

 

[dogs4thewin]

I have two issues with limiting abortion.

1) I do not see a fetus as a person.

2) I do not see how you can violate a woman's bodily integrity without giving cause to violate others.

so then when are you a person? When you are actually born after nine months or some time before then.

 

[dogs4thewin]

All abortions are elective....

depends on how you define it. All operations are elective to a certain degree, but refusing to have some will result in pain or death to the patient refusing to have others may just mean that you look slightly different.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

There is a Higher Court than the Supreme Court.

Not in the US, there isn't.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I can see it spurring a race to see which red state can make it most illegal with some truly draconian restrictions on those unlucky enough to be female.

Unlucky enough to be female? Unless that female was raped all she had to do was say no, and not only do most of those laws have an exception for rape, but even if they did not that is a tiny percentage of abortions that would be affected by removing that exception.

 

[thecolorsblend]

A lot of churches teach a lot of stuff. Should they all be used to determine domestic policy for a secular nation? I get that it informs your decisions and that's fine with me, but why should people who don't attend your church have to follow this same ideal?

A democratic process is allegedly intended to reflect the will of the people.

Why should we tolerate policies and laws which permit abortion simply because some others don’t see a problem with them?

 

[dogs4thewin]

We don't define personhood, God does.
Maybe when we can create a person, we will have the right to define it.
There is a Higher Court than the Supreme Court.

Actually, this is a secular nation and as a result the law does define certain things differently than the Bible at times. As this is a secular nation, then those are the laws that apply this side of Heaven not what the Bible or any other holy book says.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Yes.

What's that alternative, ask the baby to make the decisions that impact the adults?

The adults ( in most cases ( unless the woman was raped) made that choice when they chose to sleep together .