Should people have children if they can't afford it?

Mohamad Al-zawahreh · Nov 15, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
How is it flawed?

What is defined as financial stability? What is the proper doctrine of monetary manners?

What does God define as "enough" ? Is it bare necessities? Food, Water, Shelter, Clothing?

With welfare, Social assistance, Charity, minimum wage and so on - are you telling me that is not enough to satisfy bare necessities?

and do you honestly think a women would agree to get married in the first place if those are not available to the potential husband?

We aren't talking about homeless men getting married and having children in the middle of winter - and whose responsibility If such a thing happened - would they fall upon? Wouldn't we, the slaves of God be obligated to help them? Would we demean them and hate them for obeying God's order to multiply and marry?

Why do we frown upon helping others? Yes, independence is something that we all must strive for - but If God Has dignified every human being - who are we to take away from that dignity and say they are lesser because they ask when they are in need?

You could say that, it is an uncaring and irresponsible man that marries and fathers children while in poverty.

Or you could say that it is a man who truly trusts that Allah will never abandon him, as long as he strives.

GraceDriven · Nov 15, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
Well, it is with the exception of rape ( which do not get me wrong is an AWFUL and terrible thing, but otherwise no one is requiring you to do what it takes to have children, and if you are raped then I have no issue helping such people. I WILL say a rape case among adults is HARD to prove.

A lot of things that can happen to you are hard to prove - like deleted posts. My story above is not hard to prove. My great Aunt was left with three little girls and SHE WAS MARRIED.

C8-@ · Nov 15, 2015

Mohamad Al-zawahreh said:
Wa alikum asalam.

Yes, I will protect you from those who seek to unjustly harm you and your family. and I will sacrifice my own life if necessary to protect yours. and If they do turn on you, then take pleasure in knowing that God is on your side and not theirs. and that He is The Just, The Merciful, The Loving.

Then you have more of the love and compassion of Christ in you than many Christians I have encountered on this forum and I would be glad to call you friend.

dogs4thewin · Nov 15, 2015

Mohamad Al-zawahreh said:
What is defined as financial stability? What is the proper doctrine of monetary manners?

What does God define as "enough" ? Is it bare necessities? Food, Water, Shelter, Clothing?

With welfare, Social assistance, Charity, minimum wage and so on - are you telling me that is not enough to satisfy bare necessities?

and do you honestly think a women would agree to get married in the first place if those are not available to the potential husband?

We aren't talking about homeless men getting married and having children in the middle of winter - and whose responsibility If such a thing happened - would they fall upon? Wouldn't we, the slaves of God be obligated to help them? Would we demean them and hate them for obeying God's order to multiply and marry?

Why do we frown upon helping others? Yes, independence is something that we all must strive for - but If God Has dignified every human being - who are we to take away from that dignity and say they are lesser because they ask when they are in need?

You could say that, it is an uncaring and irresponsible man that marries and fathers children while in poverty.

Or you could say that it is a man who truly trusts that Allah will never abandon him, as long as he strives.

I have no problem helping people when and where I can. I DO have a problem with people abusing that help.

Roberto Fiad · Nov 15, 2015

timewerx said:
I'm already 34 and still got no kids, not even a GF just to be sure. I don't think I could afford to give even just one child a nice life which is why I stayed single.

If I can't give them a nice life, then I won't have kids. I can't take those chances even if they may likely turn out to be fine, but what if they don't?? I don't want to play dice with children.

I'm doing the same thing. I even abstain from sex, dating, and relationships. If I can't give a child a worthwhile raising, why bring that child into this world.

GraceDriven · Nov 15, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
I have no problem helping people when and where I can. I DO have a problem with people abusing that help.

How do you determine who abuses it? I guess you do that since you stand in judgment. I have never been on welfare so don't go there.

malvina · Nov 15, 2015

I got my security by joining a church and becoming a Christian. If I had a need I could always ask the church that used their tithes FOR THE CHURCH and not just for stipends cars and buildings. I didn't need financial help, spiritual help was enough I believed them when they said, 'If I ask anything in My name I will do it' and He did! He supplied all my needs
You see our governments are placing our kids on the wrong side these days. They don't learn to be good and become Christians they learn to ASK and live immoral lives instead and of course this is all part of prophesy for the Last Days
so this is what it is all about. I feel very sorry for our kids

1 Corinthians 12:31
King James Version (KJV)

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

dogs4thewin · Nov 15, 2015

GraceDriven said:
A lot of things that can happen to you are hard to prove - like deleted posts. My story above is not hard to prove. My great Aunt was left with three little girls and SHE WAS MARRIED.

Again, in THOSE situations those are NOT the people I have an issue helping.

dogs4thewin · Nov 15, 2015

GraceDriven said:
How do you determine who abuses it? I guess you do that since you stand in judgment. I have never been on welfare so don't go there.

It can be hard to tell who is abusing it, but there are ways.

I did not mean to imply at any point that you are ( or have ever been on welfare.)

dogs4thewin · Nov 15, 2015

Roberto Fiad said:
I'm doing the same thing. I even abstain from sex, dating, and relationships. If I can't give a child a worthwhile raising, why bring that child into this world.

Thank you I am the SAME way. For one thing I do not believe ( due to my own health problems ( of which I have a few for my age) I could properly care for them. No matter how much money I did or did NOT have.

patrick jane · Nov 15, 2015

malvina said:
I got my security by joining a church and becoming a Christian. If I had a need I could always ask the church that used their tithes FOR THE CHURCH and not just for stipends cars and buildings. I didn't need financial help, spiritual help was enough I believed them when they said, 'If I ask anything in My name I will do it' and He did! He supplied all my needs
You see our governments are placing our kids on the wrong side these days. They don't learn to be good and become Christians they learn to ASK and live immoral lives instead and of course this is all part of prophesy for the Last Days
so this is what it is all about. I feel very sorry for our kids

1 Corinthians 12:31
King James Version (KJV)

But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

I do too !!!

GraceDriven · Nov 15, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
It can be hard to tell who is abusing it, but there are ways.

I did not mean to imply at any point that you are ( or have ever been on welfare.)

This is why I don't belong to either political party. You have no answer what to do in case like my Great Aunt and we don't have the same society we had back in those days. I love my kid's more than myself. But knowing what I know today, I would have never had kids. I am sorry I brought them into this crappy uncaring and unforgiving world.

dogs4thewin · Nov 15, 2015

GraceDriven said:
This is why I don't belong to either political party. You have no answer what to do in case like my Great Aunt and we don't have the same society we had back in those days. I love my kid's more than myself. But knowing what I know today, I would have never had kids. I am sorry I brought them into this crappy uncaring and unforgiving world.

So honest question

Do you expect the GOVERNMENT through taxes to pay for people who have children they cannot afford?

C8-@ · Nov 15, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
Well, why would God NOT want us to be responsiable and only have what we could handle. We are to manage our resources and when we do not at that point God has issues with that. Our resources include our money and time both of which are important for children.

Again, I do not have an issue with people having as many children as they like, so long as the care of those children does not land on the government.

My dear dogs4thewin, it's not about what we can handle, don't limit God! He's the one doing all the handling. Do you not think that with each successive child I have not worried about finances and whether or not we can afford them? But do you know what? God has always been there for us.

Governments serve God, that's what they are there for whether they like it or not until Jesus returns. His provision for those having children 'irresponsibly' (you know who you are) comes through them via our taxes etc. which ultimately belongs to Him, so what's the beef? It's not your dosh no matter how hard you worked for it, it's His to do with as he sees fit.

Yes we have a duty to be responsible with our resources but not to put a limit on God. It's like the parable of the talents, don't bury what you have in the ground for fear you won't have enough tomorrow, go out and use it and more will be added unto you!

I have no faith in our government's to provide for me in later life but I do have faith in my 4 sons to look after me and the sons and daughters of the 'welfare generation' who make good
and do the right thing. If immigration has taught us one thing it is that those who live in poverty strive harder, they are our future doctors, nurses, teachers, politicians etc. Give them a chance and invest in them now!

Those taking advantage will be held to account (as will we all) however, judge not lest ye be judged!

dogs4thewin · Nov 15, 2015

C8-@ said:
My dear dogs4thewin, it's not about what we can handle, don't limit God! He's the one doing all the handling. Do you not think that with each successive child I have not worried about finances and whether or not we can afford them? But do you know what? God has always been there for us.

Governments serve God, that's what they are there for whether they like it or not until Jesus returns. His provision for those having children 'irresponsibly' (you know who you are) comes through them via our taxes etc. which ultimately belongs to Him, so what's the beef? It's not your dosh no matter how hard you worked for it, it's His to do with as he sees fit.

Yes we have a duty to be responsible with our resources but not to put a limit on God. It's like the parable of the talents, don't bury what you have in the ground for fear you won't have enough tomorrow, go out and use it and more will be added unto you!

I have no faith in our government's to provide for me in later life but I do have faith in my 4 sons to look after me and the sons and daughters of the 'welfare generation' who make good
and do the right thing. If immigration has taught us one thing it is that those who live in poverty strive harder, they are our future doctors, nurses, teachers, politicians etc. Give them a chance and invest in them now!

Those taking advantage will be held to account (as will we all) however, judge not lest ye be judged!

The trouble is that God provides, but He expects us to also provide for ourselves, so you cannot just say God provides while not doing your part to provide and expect others to provide for you based on God. Remember, this is a secular government, so you cannot just say God wants our government to use the money in a particular way.

GraceDriven · Nov 15, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
So honest question

Do you expect the GOVERNMENT through taxes to pay for people who have children they cannot afford?

It would be nice if the country did not have too. So what would be your solution? I think people give a lot of lip service, especially political parties, but no one has an answer that really works. Ever. Again we don't live in a society anymore where extended family looks after one another.

dogs4thewin · Nov 15, 2015

GraceDriven said:
It would be nice if the country did not have too. So what would be your solution? I think people give a lot of lip service, especially political parties, but no one has an answer that really works. Ever. Again we don't live in a society anymore where extended family looks after one another.

Well, that is how it should be that expended family looks after one another or church family and trust me the people I know at my church really have in other time of need last year and early this year ( upon the illness and death of my father), however, if we MUST have government aid I support it being on the local level, and the reason is the closer to the people the better.

C8-@ · Nov 15, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
The trouble is that God provides, but He expects us to also provide for ourselves, so you cannot just say God provides while not doing your part to provide and expect others to provide for you based on God. Remember, this is a secular government, so you cannot just say God wants our government to use the money in a particular way.

I agree, our secular governments want to take away God's provision for the poor because they are Godless. Welfare was created by good Christian politicians dedicated to lifting the poor out of poverty and that is being reversed all around the world today because of the banking crisis of 2008 created by corrupt banks and businesses!

Yes there are a few bad eggs in our societies, but just like ISIS do not represent the majority of Muslims, let's not tar everyone with the same brush. The vast majority are doing their part and so deserve what they get in welfare. Here in the UK I stand to lose about $2000 in welfare next year and I have worked for the past 16 years since I was a student. The ludicrous thing is that if I work more hours I will lose even more money (I've calculated it).

That implies a deliberate policy to make working families, especially children, poorer to balance the books caused by avarice and corruption!

dogs4thewin · Nov 15, 2015

C8-@ said:
I agree, our secular governments want to take away God's provision for the poor because they are Godless. Welfare was created by good Christian politicians dedicated to lifting the poor out of poverty and that is being reversed all around the world today because of the banking crisis of 2008 created by corrupt banks and businesses!

Yes there are a few bad eggs in our societies, but just like ISIS do not represent the majority of Muslims, let's not tar everyone with the same brush. The vast majority are doing their part and so deserve what they get in welfare. Here in the UK I stand to lose about $2000 in welfare next year and I have worked for the past 16 years since I was a student. The ludicrous thing is that if I work more hours I will lose even more money (I've calculated it).

That implies a deliberate policy to make working families, especially children, poorer to balance the books caused by avarice and corruption!

Actually, it makes since that IF you are on welfare you lose money the more you make.

C8-@ · Nov 15, 2015

dogs4thewin said:
Actually, it makes since that IF you are on welfare you lose money the more you make.

Normally I would agree, the more you earn the less you need, but not when the government in question is promising to make work pay and that no one will be worse off!

If I work more then I stand to be $2300 worse off in total and will never spend any time with my boys so how does that compute unless this is antichrist mathematics! God will provide regardless, He always does!

Should people have children if they can't afford it?

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