Should people have children if they can't afford it?

[Hetta]

I'm already 34 and still got no kids, not even a GF just to be sure. I don't think I could afford to give even just one child a nice life which is why I stayed single.

If I can't give them a nice life, then I won't have kids. I can't take those chances even if they may likely turn out to be fine, but what if they don't?? I don't want to play dice with children.

What is a "nice" life? Okay, I understand that I am coming from a perspective where we never had to struggle financially, but our kids were never given things that we (their parents) could not afford, and they understood that we were never going to buy them brand new, top of the range, sports cars - even if we could afford that. They got decent, second-hand (safe) cars when they were old enough to drive, and prior to that, they got the things they wanted, within reason, as we thought they should have them. But that's just "stuff". What they always wanted, and what is absolutely free, is attention, love and support - and that's the bottom line for every kid.

As for whether the kids turn out fine, so long as you give them that attention, love and support, most of them turn out fine. Not perfect, because their parents aren't perfect. I honestly can't say it ever crossed my mind to worry about whether they would turn out fine, because our parenting was going to be based on the parenting that my husband and I were raised with, and that turned us out fine. Our kids have turned out great. And so would yours.

 

[Hetta]

I do sort of enjoy the idea of something backfiring on women

'nuff said.

 

[Hetta]

Not being responsible enough to not get pregnant when you can't afford birth control and getting an abortion = abortion. Nice distracting from the point.

Nobody's talking about abortion here. People are talking about b/c. Start your own thread if you want to talk about abortion.

 

[Mohamad Al-zawahreh]

As far as I am aware God hasn't revoked His first commandment! I.e. Go forth and multiply and fill the earth etc. If He has then as a father of 4 now we didn't get the memo.

The Bible also tells us that children are a gift from the Lord and blessed is the man (including woman) whose quiver is full of them and no matter how empty my wallet may be my heart never is!

Should we have them if we can't afford them? The world will tell us YES and condemn us as being irresponsible if we think otherwise, but we all belong to God, He has a plan and purpose for each and every one of us so who are we to determine this?

Also if you are a believer we are told to consider the lilies of the field and the birds of the air who neither toil nor reap and God provides all their needs. The same applies to us regardless of how many mouths we have to feed. Everything belongs to Him and He gives freely.

Jacob had 12 sons and who knows how many daughters, grandkids etc. and God fed them all in Egypt during a famine thanks to his 11th son Joseph! Imagine if he had decided to stop at 2 or 4 or 10 just because the world around him told him he was being irresponsible having so many kids. They'd all have perished and along with them the 12 tribes of Israel!

Egypt was their welfare state but only because God made it so through Joseph an 11th child. So let the rich feed the poor when necessary because they are only rich by God's hand not their own anyway (no matter what their arrogance may tell them)!

As for me and my house I have a good job (for now) praise God and we pay our way, but we also receive money from the government for our children, money I have paid in taxes over the years and continue to do so. We take out no more than we pay in and my children will pay for my state pension when I am older. So let's not throw our babies out with their bath water and forget that with an ever aging population our future depends on them!

The question shouldn't be if WE can afford them it should be can God afford them? The answer of course is YES. The problem is not one of affordability it is one of greed as too few have too much and too many have too little! God has provided sufficient resources, more than enough for all but our distribution methods are crooked and morally indefensible which is why Jesus said the poor will always be with us even unto the end of the age!

No, we shouldn't stop having kids! That is Satan's agenda! He hates humans because God created and loves us! He's already got us believing that contraception and abortion are acceptable and now he wants to cull us due to finances? Another fine example of money being the root of all evil!

This is exactly what Islam teaches, Word for word.

 

[Belledandy]

this one is difficult for me
Me and my husband have been trying for a baby for 6 years. Sadly we found out 2 years ago I have problems which left me infertile. We had Ivf which was funded by the government but sadly was unsuccessful. So we decided to go for adoption. Being a mother is all I've wanted to be. But as we are on benefits sadly we were turned down. Me and my husband are self employed but still have a low income. We manage to get by, the bills are always paid and we can eat well and still have enough money for a treat now and then. But this wasn't good enough. My and my husband would do anything to be parents and we would be able to provide a loving home for any child.
My cousin of 18, his brother of 20 and his eldest brother of 26 are all expecting. They are still living in a government paid home with their mother who doesn't work And their alcoholic father. All don't work and all will live on benefits probably forever and which in turn their children will. It's a vicious circle.
I find it difficult to accept and cope with.
But I do understand that it is gods will and his plan. I just pray everyday that me being a mother is also in his plan.

 

[dogs4thewin]

As far as I am aware God hasn't revoked His first commandment! I.e. Go forth and multiply and fill the earth etc. If He has then as a father of 4 now we didn't get the memo.

The Bible also tells us that children are a gift from the Lord and blessed is the man (including woman) whose quiver is full of them and no matter how empty my wallet may be my heart never is!

Should we have them if we can't afford them? The world will tell us YES and condemn us as being irresponsible if we think otherwise, but we all belong to God, He has a plan and purpose for each and every one of us so who are we to determine this?

Also if you are a believer we are told to consider the lilies of the field and the birds of the air who neither toil nor reap and God provides all their needs. The same applies to us regardless of how many mouths we have to feed. Everything belongs to Him and He gives freely.

Jacob had 12 sons and who knows how many daughters, grandkids etc. and God fed them all in Egypt during a famine thanks to his 11th son Joseph! Imagine if he had decided to stop at 2 or 4 or 10 just because the world around him told him he was being irresponsible having so many kids. They'd all have perished and along with them the 12 tribes of Israel!

Egypt was their welfare state but only because God made it so through Joseph an 11th child. So let the rich feed the poor when necessary because they are only rich by God's hand not their own anyway (no matter what their arrogance may tell them)!

As for me and my house I have a good job (for now) praise God and we pay our way, but we also receive money from the government for our children, money I have paid in taxes over the years and continue to do so. We take out no more than we pay in and my children will pay for my state pension when I am older. So let's not throw our babies out with their bath water and forget that with an ever aging population our future depends on them!

The question shouldn't be if WE can afford them it should be can God afford them? The answer of course is YES. The problem is not one of affordability it is one of greed as too few have too much and too many have too little! God has provided sufficient resources, more than enough for all but our distribution methods are crooked and morally indefensible which is why Jesus said the poor will always be with us even unto the end of the age!

No, we shouldn't stop having kids! That is Satan's agenda! He hates humans because God created and loves us! He's already got us believing that contraception and abortion are acceptable and now he wants to cull us due to finances? Another fine example of money being the root of all evil!

I disagree. God says to provide for you and your family. If you have children that you know you cannot provide for get fixed, do not have sex whatever you have to do, but do NOT keep having children.

Now, it is different if someone falls on hard times and ALREADY has children that it is acceptable.

 

[Hetta]

this one is difficult for me
Me and my husband have been trying for a baby for 6 years. Sadly we found out 2 years ago I have problems which left me infertile. We had Ivf which was funded by the government but sadly was unsuccessful. So we decided to go for adoption. Being a mother is all I've wanted to be. But as we are on benefits sadly we were turned down. Me and my husband are self employed but still have a low income. We manage to get by, the bills are always paid and we can eat well and still have enough money for a treat now and then. But this wasn't good enough. My and my husband would do anything to be parents and we would be able to provide a loving home for any child.
My cousin of 18, his brother of 20 and his eldest brother of 26 are all expecting. They are still living in a government paid home with their mother who doesn't work And their alcoholic father. All don't work and all will live on benefits probably forever and which in turn their children will. It's a vicious circle.
I find it difficult to accept and cope with.
But I do understand that it is gods will and his plan. I just pray everyday that me being a mother is also in his plan.

I'm sorry. IMO, people like you and your husband should absolutely be able to adopt. Many children are born into families were they are unwanted, and they suffer terrible abuses and neglect, and I always find it incredibly stupid that the government lays such restrictions on couples who are longing for a child, and who break even, and can bring it up with all the love it needs. I hope that something changes and you are able to become a mom.

 

[harkpuff]

I know of a family that could easily win the world record for irresponsibly dysfunctional. This is a family that neither the parents, or now adult children have ever considered the meaning of the words logic, wisdom or common senses. As a result the daughters are just as functionally inept as the parents and even worse.
The logic of this family consists of for example: Hey! it's pay day. Got my pay check, or most often welfare check. It's time to go buy new cell phones for all of us, and the latest movie videos that have come out. Whoo Hooo party time!! With absolutely no thought that the rent is coming due, the power bill needs to be paid and the car is now riding on bald skins and will needs a new battery an oil change soon and new shoes for one or two of them.
We usually hear from them when the landlord is about to boot them out in the street and they need a few hundred bucks to keep the roof over their heads. These are folks that are living at poverty level but insist on owning and feeding two dogs and three cats besides themselves.
To make matters worse, the daughters drop out of high school have a different boy friend each month and breed like rabbits. The boyfriends move in and out of the house like its a boarding house and sleep with the daughters while they are there. Neither the live-in boy friends or the daughters work jobs or do anything to contribute, but they hang around to eat mom and dad out of house and home. On top of this none of them are even trying to get jobs.
One of the daughters has had three kids by three different boys by the time she was 20 years old and the other daughter has had one child by a live-in boy friend. And by the way this is a Caucasian family that I'm talking about. The daughter that had three kids has had two of them taken from her by DHS and is likely that the third will be taken from her.
Now.....I'm sorry, but I will gladly help folks that are genuinely in need and have a problem that is beyond their control. And I will not allow a child to starve to death. But I have a real problem bailing out those that are just plain irresponsible lazy slobs of human beings that have problems that are due mostly to their own stupidity.
I believe there is evidence that God feels the same way when he said "Those that don't work should not eat".
I have not completely decided yet on how I feel about this, but I'm kind of leaning toward the mindset that people who are so irresponsible sexually that they produce many children with absolutely zero regard to their ability to care or provide for another human being should be legally sterilized. This is certainly not fair to the human beings they produce. I'm still wrestling with the doctrinal and moral aspects of extreme cases like this.
Should out of control adults, male and female, be allowed to just wander the country, unchallenged without consequences, sowing their wild oats with no regard to the number of children that they produce, no regard to the welfare of those children and left for others to care for?
Some say that we cannot morally take control of another humans sexuality, but I think a persons sexuality can possibly be used to a degree where it can become criminally irresponsible.

 

[C8-@]

I disagree. God says to provide for you and your family. If you have children that you know you cannot provide for get fixed, do not have sex whatever you have to do, but do NOT keep having children.

Now, it is different if someone falls on hard times and ALREADY has children that it is acceptable.

I have provided, I do provide and by God's grace I will continue to provide and should I die tomorrow He will provide for my offspring! I won't be 'fixed' sorry sister!

 

[dogs4thewin]

I'm sorry. IMO, people like you and your husband should absolutely be able to adopt. Many children are born into families were they are unwanted, and they suffer terrible abuses and neglect, and I always find it incredibly stupid that the government lays such restrictions on couples who are longing for a child, and who break even, and can bring it up with all the love it needs. I hope that something changes and you are able to become a mom.

The fact that a person is on benefits means they should not have children adopted anyway fostered maybe since they get benefits for foster children anyway. While I am sure that that particular poster really wants to be a mother and I can respect that, but if she and her husband cannot support THEMSELVES without government benefits why bring another person into the family? I am not saying that this poster or any particular person WANTS to be on benefits, but at the same time if they cannot support themselves; then why would we ( the government) want to give them someone else they cannot support?

 

[dogs4thewin]

I have provided, I do provide and by God's grace I will continue to provide and should I die tomorrow He will provide for my offspring! I won't be 'fixed' sorry sister!

I do not care how many children someone has as long as they are providing.

 

[Hetta]

The fact that a person is on benefits means they should not have children adopted anyway fostered maybe since they get benefits for foster children anyway. While I am sure that that particular poster really wants to be a mother and I can respect that, but if she and her husband cannot support THEMSELVES without government benefits why bring another person into the family? I am not saying that this poster or any particular person WANTS to be on benefits, but at the same time if they cannot support themselves; then why would we ( the government) want to give them someone else they cannot support?

Did you bother to read that they are self-employed?

I've already heard from you many times before on this topic and I know that you have no compassion for people who struggle financially, while at the same time you don't want any kids yourself ever, so you have no idea what it feels like to want to be a parent. Just don't respond to me on this topic, okay, because I don't want to go around this argument with you again.

And let me remind you again that "we" does not include you, because you are on benefits and therefore contribute nothing to the pot.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Did you bother to read that they are self-employed?

I've already heard from you many times before on this topic and I know that you have no compassion for people who struggle financially, while at the same time you don't want any kids yourself ever, so you have no idea what it feels like to want to be a parent. Just don't respond to me on this topic, okay, because I don't want to go around this argument with you again.

 

[C8-@]

This is exactly what Islam teaches, Word for word.

Sadly certain factions also teach that beheading me and my infidel offspring is necessary as is perpetrating the atrocities committed in Paris on Friday in the name of Allah!

 

[GraceDriven]

That is what abortion is for so that societies "misfits" will not produce children. We are living in a society now that has no tolerance than for nothing less than what they deem to be "perfect." The problem with that is they have anointed themselves to be God. And they are the biggest bunch of hypocrites you will ever see.

 

[Hetta]

And again this thread is not about abortion.

 

[GraceDriven]

And again this thread is not about abortion.

It is.

 

[Mohamad Al-zawahreh]

Sadly certain factions also teach that beheading me and my infidel offspring is necessary as is perpetrating the atrocities committed in Paris on Friday in the name of Allah!

The same way certain factions of Christianity say that Black people should be enslaved as they were created to be slaves and the same way Hitler justified killing the Jews as he himself was a Christian.

The word infidel btw, is exclusive to Christianity and does not apply to Islam. Beheading is a forbidden form of execution.

Good that you are reading up on Islam, bad that you are being drawn in to propaganda yet are like a Christian version of a Muslim from the way you talk.

 

[C8-@]

I do not care how many children someone has as long as they are providing.

I am only providing by God's grace/hand! That is the point. He is providing through me and loves the unsaved children as much as he loves mine! He will provide for them too! He might even ask you to do it for Him, how will you reply? "Not my responsibility?"

Perhaps that's why Jacob had so many kids and became the father of our faith, because he couldn't get 'fixed? God forbid he lived in this day and age!

 

[dogs4thewin]

I am only providing by God's grace/hand! That is the point. He is providing through me and loves the unsaved children as much as he loves mine! He will provide for them too! He might even ask you to do it for Him, how will you reply? "Not my responsibility?"

Perhaps that's why Jacob had so many kids and became the father of our faith, because he couldn't get 'fixed? God forbid he lived in this day and age!

There is a difference between someone who has children they can afford and later cannot and someone who has children they KNOW they cannot afford for OTHER people to take care of for them. If you need help that is fine, but do not abuse the help by having children you KNOW you cannot afford. You here is being used generally.