Should one be fully submerged for Baptism?

[DeaconDean]

All I know is that Mal.4:5-6 says that "the prophet Elijah will come before that GREAT and DREADFUL DAY of the LORD." Jesus' first advent upon the earth, his birth, death and resurrection, can not be classified as "great and dreadful day of the Lord. Would you say that? Jesus came as the "Suffering Servant" (Isa. 52:13-53:12) Did Jesus come during His first advent to execute judgment? "...Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come" (Rev 14:7)

 

[Jig]

All I know is that Mal.4:5-6 says that "the prophet Elijah will come before that GREAT and DREADFUL DAY of the LORD." Jesus' first advent upon the earth, his birth, death and resurrection, can not be classified as "great and dreadful day of the Lord. Would you say that? Jesus came as the "Suffering Servant" (Isa. 52:13-53:12) Did Jesus come during His first advent to execute judgment? "...Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come" (Rev 14:7)

I fear this will not be resolved. I've read many commentaries and articles on this topic and many scholars hold my point of view. I didnt see many holding your point at all. I'd rather agree with the many scholars who have study the ancient texts for decades.

There is NO way of going around Matthew 17:12-13. This is what Jesus said.

12but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."
13Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist


Also, remember that John had already died, when Elijah and Moses appeared before Jesus. It is very possible that John and Elijah are one. You may count this as reincarnation...but remember with God all is possible. How do you suppose Elijah will come back?
John's birth was special...he was born in the spirit and power of Elijah. He held Elijahs spirit and had his power. This is Elijahs return. Just as baby Jesus was conceived in the spirit of the Holy Spirt, Jesus is God.

 

[DeaconDean]

John 1:21: "And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No."

 

[Jig]

John 1:21: "And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No."

How would John know if he was Elijah? He wouldn't. This proves nothing.

 

[DeaconDean]

How would John know if he was Elijah? He wouldn't. This proves nothing.

John the Baptist is a liar! "...he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb." (Luke 1:15) He was full of the Holy Spirit even before he was born! There are three in the God-head, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. "it was impossible for God to lie." (Heb.6:18) And the Holy Spirit being part of God, the Holy Spirit cannot lie. Are you implying that the Holy Spirit caused John to lie?

 

[Jig]

John the Baptist is a liar! "...he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb." (Luke 1:15) He was full of the Holy Spirit even before he was born! There are three in the God-head, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. "it was impossible for God to lie." (Heb.6:18) And the Holy Spirit being part of God, the Holy Spirit cannot lie. Are you implying that the Holy Spirit caused John to lie?

If he truely didn't know he was Elijah and said he wasn't, how is this a lie? It isn't.

 

[Jig]

John 1:21: "And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No."

Another take:
"The Jews were expecting Elijah himself (physical body of old), but instead God was sending the spirit of Elijah in the body of John the Baptist. So no, John the Baptist was not actually Elijah, but he was the spirit of Elijah."

 

[DeaconDean]

I give up! I will not believe that John the Baptist is the reincarnation of Elijah! You can believe this heresy if you want, but as for me I refuse! And judging by what you already said above:

It is very possible that John and Elijah are one. You may count this as reincarnation...but remember with God all is possible. How do you suppose Elijah will come back?

Then I am left with no recourse than to believe that you believe in reincarnation. Reincarnation involves being born, living, dying, then being born, living, and dying again. Where did Elijah die? If Elijah did not die then he's still alive, correct? And if he is still alive, then how can he be reborn? And again, I ask where in the Bible does it teach reincarnation?

 

[Jig]

I give up! I will not believe that John the Baptist is the reincarnation of Elijah! You can believe this heresy if you want, but as for me I refuse! And judging by what you already said above:


Then I am left with no recourse than to believe that you believe in reincarnation. Reincarnation involves being born, living, dying, then being born, living, and dying again. Where did Elijah die? If Elijah did not die then he's still alive, correct? And if he is still alive, then how can he be reborn? And again, I ask where in the Bible does it teach reincarnation?

I'm not sure where your going with this reincarnation thing. John simply had Elijah's spirit dwell in him. I'm not sure how God would go about doing that, but all things are possible with Him. So I dont question.