Should Christians Hunt?

[PACKY]

This isn't feasible in situations like the one I showed. When you have 100 deer in just over a 12 sqkm area, it's not possible to solve the problem with birth control. Unless you've got a geriatric deer population, it takes a minimum of 3-5 years to reduce the population by any significant level. Relocation is not possible. This is a peat bog, and a very delicate ecosystem. To relocate around 80 deer would require a vast number of people, not to mention equipment. You'd destroy large patches of the bog. As well, there's not a huge number of places in Ontario where you can just dump off 80 deer.

You also mentioned "sportsmen" being largely against reintroduction of predator species. This is misrepresentative. Firstly, predator species are being reintroduced in areas where they are severely depleted, at least in Canada. Secondly, the major group that tend to be against increasing the population of predators are farmers, since a greater population of wolves, etc., will likely have a detrimental effect on their herds/flocks.

Deer hunting is often necessary to control deer populations and keep the ecosystem in balance.

1) WDNR, employs very minimal staff (volunteers) who do trapping and relocation, it takes very ittle effort and time.

2) if there are 100(?) deer in such a small area then they would have destroyed or consumed all food sources, if your assesment is right it would do less harm to trap these deer and relocate Vs. the "wanton destruction" of this out of control deer 'commune'

3) there are many different pro hunter (blood sport participants) orginazations who have lobby's who push for pro-hunter anti-predator bills, this is a known fact in the hunting community, just read some of the predator vs. prey articles in such magazines of North American Hunter Or publications of Safari club International. I USED TO BE A AVID HUNTER, i am not some outsider looking in, I am well versed on blood letting for sport, I was involved in the orgs. and know what there agendas are. As far as farmers go the goverment pays farmers for livestock losses and in all truth these payments are more than the farmer would have recieved at market.

truth of the matter is in my mind if you care about Gods creation then you need to start small, If you want to make peace you start small, it takes baby steps.. God did not create the world in a day ... man did not destroy the earth in a day so it will take time, I heard a earler refrence to "hippie".. If you read Christs teachings it is ALL about peace ,love,tolerance, and caring for all of gods creation. I hope we are all on the same page we are on this post not to prove each other wrong but to share thoughts and opinions.
Thanks for being respectful and civil.......

 

[PACKY]

So, it's ok to eat meat killed by others.
But to kill the meat that you eat is wrong?

So the slaughter house workers would be wrong too?

If you don't want to eat meat thats fine. But lets keep the bible out of the discussion.
Killing any animal at any time would be wrong. Who does it doesn't matter.

Currently the human race has reduced predators to levels to low to keep animals
at safe levels. The animals would over produce and then animals will starve.
So to stop hunting would be bad for the enviroment.

While I am not a hunter, I do not see the difference between raising animals to slaughter or hunting for animals. Hunting without using the meat would be wrong but as l;ong as the meat is eaten there is no difference.

THIS POST IS ABOUT' SHOULD CHRISTIANS HUNT?
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A VEGETARIAN!!

 

[Jonteel]

Let me start off with a quote from a minster friend.
She, Shakana, was a minister in Colorado Springs. She came to God in the revival that occured in the 20's. She was a hunter. Her husband was a welder, and they originally lived in Jackson Hole Wyoming. He hunted for fun.

Shakana helped me to learn to hear God's voice. She told me that God always told them where the game was. She was a western woman from the old school. When I started hunting, she would ask me, "Did you get anything?" I sometimes would say, "No, but I had fun being in the woods." I was a Sierra club hiker-type of outdoors person. I just plain enjoyed the wind in the trees. She said to me, "If you didn't get any deer, then you didn't have fun."

It seems that God was able to lead her family in the hunt. God has no problem with men cutting down wheat. He just grows more. He has no problem with men eating or harvesting meat. He just grows more. The cattle on a thousand hills are his. Notice that scripture uses the term cattle. In fact when Adam and Eve were sent from the Garden, God killed animals and made clothing of fur for the two.

Let's move on to pure reason. Here in Pennsylvania, the deer population is growing pretty big. It seems that the 60's gave us a generation of non-violent people that don't hunt. The deer are dying of starvation and also getting to be a threat to motorists. So, Pa has given the hunters a much longer season. The hunters can bring home many more females, and the season (which lasted 2 weeks--3 days for doe) now lasts something like six or eight weeks. I don't hunt anymore but my friend said that he could bring home six deer. I assume he meant females. In the old days it was only one.

The Pa state game commission is charged with seeing that these animals don''t suffer. They've decided to let hunters keep the herd controlled. Some people are unaware that deer are suffering like concentration camp internees.

 

[Beastt]

I've never understood how anyone could allow themselves to believe that the answer to a reduced number of predators is to send hunters into the woods. It's as though they believed that the ecological system resembles a see-saw with predators on one side and deer on the other. It should be obvious to anyone that all things in an ecological system are connected. It's not just a two-sided situation. Every animal affects the ecology, not just the predators and the deer. Predators hunt and eat all prey animals, not just deer. The balance isn't restored by hunters. If one seeks to restore the balance, they must restore the predators.

If they see themselves as a predator, then let them prove this to themselves by hunting as a predator hunts. Leave the rifles, the calls, the scents, the four-wheel drive vehicles at home. Simply track the prey on foot, chase it down and take it to the ground with teeth and fingernails. That's how a true predator hunts. Of course true predators have the strength, speed, agility, teeth and claws to be able to do this. If one wishes to assume that God created predators, he did so with the tools they would need to obtain their food source. Man did not receive these tools.

 

[Billnew]

THIS POST IS ABOUT' SHOULD CHRISTIANS HUNT?
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A VEGETARIAN!!

This was a response about Hunting.
The OP said it was wrong to kill animals.
Just because you aren't the one killing the animal, dosen't
mean the animal wasn't killed for you.
I didn't even mention vegitarianism.

So
Stop reading into what I POST

 

[PACKY]

Let me start off with a quote from a minster friend.
She, Shakana, was a minister in Colorado Springs. She came to God in the revival that occured in the 20's. She was a hunter. Her husband was a welder, and they originally lived in Jackson Hole Wyoming. He hunted for fun.

Shakana helped me to learn to hear God's voice. She told me that God always told them where the game was. She was a western woman from the old school. When I started hunting, she would ask me, "Did you get anything?" I sometimes would say, "No, but I had fun being in the woods." I was a Sierra club hiker-type of outdoors person. I just plain enjoyed the wind in the trees. She said to me, "If you didn't get any deer, then you didn't have fun."

It seems that God was able to lead her family in the hunt. God has no problem with men cutting down wheat. He just grows more.
Let's move on to pure reason. Here in Pennsylvania, the deer population is growing pretty big. It seems that the 60's gave us a generation of non-violent people that don't hunt. The deer are dying of starvation and also getting to be a threat to motorists. So, Pa has given the hunters a much longer season. The hunters can bring home many more females, and the season (which lasted 2 weeks--3 days for doe) now lasts something like six or eight weeks. I don't hunt anymore but my friend said that he could bring home six deer. I assume he meant females. In the old days it was only one.

The Pa state game commission is charged with seeing that these animals don''t suffer. They've decided to let hunters keep the herd controlled. Some people are unaware that deer are suffering like concentration camp internees.

Like I said earlier in my post, Hunters often the versus from Genesis to support hunting just as the slave traders of old used the scripture to support the slave trade ( yet they are both EXCUSES)..."He has no problem with men eating or harvesting meat. He just grows more. The cattle on a thousand hills are his. Notice that scripture uses the term cattle. In fact when Adam and Eve were sent from the Garden, God killed animals and made clothing of fur for the two".
it's Funny that you bring up the fact that God provided Adam and Eve with the clothing from animals as well as telling them they could now eat meat, this happened only after they SINNED!!!
I tell you what i would rather live my life as peaceful as I could and not be the reason that any of gods creation was destroyed.

As far as saying that deer are starving to death, that is a mere excuse made by hunters and is often the first one thrown in the faces of non-hunters who question the practice this is evident as there is a book called " in defense of hunting" written by James swain in the book is a chapter which gives hunter's comebacks to questions posed by non-hunters however the reasoning to support any act should be evident and should not require a "users manual" on how to defend ones "sport".
Deer are herbivores and will eat almost any plant, they not only have there natural food but they have gardens, fields of crops ( every deer I slaughtered when I was a hunter had a stomach full of corn! )
orchards, lawns, parks, etc etc etc... man has created this problem due to 2 reasons,, 1) we killed off the predators and cower away when anyone wants to re-introduce them 2) Humans have become very successful when it come to agriculture,, Does would not be having 2-3 fawns yearly if there body couldnt handle the drain.... It is a well known fact that Does (female deer) can reabsorb their fetus's if food becomes scare in the winter...( this is not happeninig).. so the whole " We help the deer by showing them mercy by killing them ourselves or they will starve" is nothing but a old worn out record style EXCUSE and FARSE used by hunters to help put a positive spin on th esport of blood leting and destroying gods creation .
Getting back to my OP, the need to hunt is not there for many people as God has provided for you in the terms of grocery stores with row upon row of flesh to feast on.

Here's a question for you,, Christ has said that to follow him and his example and path in life is to find salvation,,,, do YOU think that Jesus Christ has every Slaughtered a cow or lamb? I mean actually be the one to cut the throat of another living being?,, do you think that Jesus christ would Hunt for sport?
I dont.. and I think that he would be appaled that people actually go out and destroy gods creation and call it a sport......
Once again thank you for the chance to discuss this topic with you!

 

[PACKY]

This was a response about Hunting.
The OP said it was wrong to kill animals.
Just because you aren't the one killing the animal, dosen't
mean the animal wasn't killed for you.
I didn't even mention vegitarianism.

So
Stop reading into what I POST

billnew,
this wasnt at all directed as you but was a reminder that my OP had nothing to do with the topic of eating flesh as some people were bringing up. Sorry it was taken that way as it was not my intent .
Mike

 

[Beastt]

But to kill the meat that you eat is wrong?
So the slaughter house workers would be wrong too?
If you don't want to eat meat thats fine. But lets keep the bible out of the discussion.
(...snip)

This was a response about Hunting.
The OP said it was wrong to kill animals.
Just because you aren't the one killing the animal, dosen't
mean the animal wasn't killed for you.
I didn't even mention vegitarianism.

So
Stop reading into what I POST
(Emphasis added)

Perhaps the sometimes subtle difference between diet choice and the choice to hunt or not to hunt isn't readily apparent to some. So to try to clarify; slaughterhouse workers don't hunt the animals, they do kill them. Eating meat and hunting don't necessarily go together. I shot and killed an animal when I was much younger but I have been a vegetarian my whole life. The experience of watching the animal die only strengthened by belief that man is not intended to kill other animals. My point is that I hunted but never have eaten meat. The two issues do have a degree of separation. It's not about diet or even killing animals, unless that killing is done through the process we call "hunting".

For any who wish to discuss the diet end of the issue, I will happily offer direction to a few threads on the topic.

 

[PACKY]

I thought of a few fitting quotes:

If you declare that you are naturally designed for such a diet, then first kill
for yourself what you want to eat. Do it, however, only through your own
resources, unaided by cleaver or cudgel or any kind of ax.
-- Plutarch

When a man wantonly destroys one of the works of man, we call him a vandal. When
he wantonly destroys one of the works of God, we call him a sportsman.
-- Joseph Wood Krutch

Various philosophers and religious leaders tried to convince their disciples and
followers that animals are nothing more than machines without a soul, without
feelings. However, anyone who has ever lived with an animal--be it a dog, a
bird, or even a mouse--knows that this theory is a brazen lie, invented to
justify cruelty.
-- Isaac Bashevis


the underlying question to all of this is simply:

why add to the pain, fear and destruction taking place in the world? Hunting causes pain, no matter how clean the kill, you still cause pain.. the fact remain's why cause pain?.. people need to remember that when we kill we take away everything that being has and will ever have and it rests on your choice to end that life the very life that god has so unselfishly created...
I am not here to argue I am here to discuss and share.....
peace and Blessings....

 

[Matthan]

BlessedBeTheMeek, all I see in your threads is a double standard that I find disturbing. On the one hand you tells us you LOVE TO FISH. Then you ask if Christians should hunt because to kill something is to take everything that it is and was! Talk about confusing!!!!

What is fishing but hunting with water added? Oh, but you catch and release, right? Do you think all of the fish you release after wearing them out in the "fight" will survive? And remember that fish, even when lip-hooked, still feel pain. That's something else to think about.

Here is the truth, pardner. Hunting is an honorable pasttime, just as fishing is honorable. God put fish and wildlife here for man to use, and gave us the command to use them. If you have personal feelings against hunting, that is fine with me. But do not tell me you love fishing but do not agree with hunting. That, to my way of thinking, is an unacceptable double standard that just sounds silly.

Mathan <J><

 

[wildthing]

BlessedBeTheMeek, all I see in your threads is a double standard that I find disturbing. On the one hand you tells us you LOVE TO FISH. Then you ask if Christians should hunt because to kill something is to take everything that it is and was! Talk about confusing!!!!

Here is the truth, pardner. Hunting is an honorable pasttime, just as fishing is honorable. God put fish and wildlife here for man to use, and gave us the command to use them. If you have personal feelings against hunting, that is fine with me. But do not tell me you love fishing but do not agree with hunting. That, to my way of thinking, is an unacceptable double standard that just sounds silly.

Mathan <J><

Amen

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

one question, if hunting/fishing is so wrong, why did Jesus do it?

that is all, one simple question.

 

[PACKY]

BlessedBeTheMeek, all I see in your threads is a double standard that I find disturbing. On the one hand you tells us you LOVE TO FISH. Then you ask if Christians should hunt because to kill something is to take everything that it is and was! Talk about confusing!!!!

What is fishing but hunting with water added? Oh, but you catch and release, right? Do you think all of the fish you release after wearing them out in the "fight" will survive? And remember that fish, even when lip-hooked, still feel pain. That's something else to think about.

Here is the truth, pardner. Hunting is an honorable pasttime, just as fishing is honorable. God put fish and wildlife here for man to use, and gave us the command to use them. If you have personal feelings against hunting, that is fine with me. But do not tell me you love fishing but do not agree with hunting. That, to my way of thinking, is an unacceptable double standard that just sounds silly.

Mathan <J><

here is my fishing post comment:
-----------------------------------------------
anyone out there love to fish?


I love to fish and mostly catch and release only but I love to go out on the water and spend sometime in gods creation....
------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOW, i am glad youre so eager to place judgement on others, They might have felt pain but iam sure it wasnt as much as having a round shot through their vitals or a broadhead slamming into them? You are so eager to discredit my point of view in a attempt to make yourself feel better for being a blood sport participant, I never claimed to be a memeber of PETA.
I knew that my fishing post would come into play.. I hope you also read my prior posts were i stated that i am not here to judge, but to share my thoughts, I never personally called you out or attacked you have I?

 

[PACKY]

one question, if hunting/fishing is so wrong, why did Jesus do it?

that is all, one simple question.

I know he fished prove to me he hunted!

 

[PACKY]

Amen

wild thing,
do you know what a lemming is?

 

[Beastt]

BlessedBeTheMeek, all I see in your threads is a double standard that I find disturbing. On the one hand you tells us you LOVE TO FISH. Then you ask if Christians should hunt because to kill something is to take everything that it is and was! Talk about confusing!!!!

What is fishing but hunting with water added? Oh, but you catch and release, right? Do you think all of the fish you release after wearing them out in the "fight" will survive? And remember that fish, even when lip-hooked, still feel pain. That's something else to think about.

This brings up a valid point, in my opinion.

Here is the truth, pardner. Hunting is an honorable pasttime,...

This is but unsubstantiated opinion. If you consider practicing cruelty and causing suffering to be honorable, then you have a point. My guess is that if anyone practiced cruelty or caused suffering among your family members, you would not think of their actions as honorable.

...just as fishing is honorable.

Certainly if hunting is wrong, fishing isn't right.

God put fish and wildlife here for man to use, and gave us the command to use them. If you have personal feelings against hunting, that is fine with me. But do not tell me you love fishing but do not agree with hunting. That, to my way of thinking, is an unacceptable double standard that just sounds silly.

Mathan <J><

Using the Bible which has been shown over and over to be an inaccurate document, to gain approval for any practice is never more than a haphazard endeavor. But if you insist on using the Bible; "Thou shalt not kill". Hunting is killing. Fishing - even catch and release - often results in the needless and pointless death of the fish.

 

[PACKY]

The intent of this post was to allow people to talk about the dilemma I hold in regards to being a christian hunter, It has turned into posts with the sole purpose of pointing fingers, I will not change my mind, you will not change yours. like i said earlier teh bible can be twisted and mangled to make it say anything you want, Hnting is a personal choice, I no longer take part in it, if you want to hunt so be it it is your choice.. I am not here to judge you or your actions, I am making clear my feelings on the subject.

 

[Billnew]

billnew,
this wasnt at all directed as you but was a reminder that my OP had nothing to do with the topic of eating flesh as some people were bringing up. Sorry it was taken that way as it was not my intent .
Mike

I misunderstood when you quoted me, I thought you were saying I was saying Vegitarian.

But I don't see the difference between actually killing a wild animal or having an animal killed so that person can eat meat. The cow or pig that is killed for a person to eat, is killed in that persons name.

I am not a hunter, I fish occasionally. I love meat, all kinds of meat.
I don't for one second think that I am innocent of the killing of the animal.

Hunting keeps the population down thus preventing over population. Since in our past, preditors have been wiped out. If we don't hunt deer would overpopulate an area. Overpopulation would cause starving and suffering of
the spesis. This would also cause the deer to eat the food farmers are raising.

Wild meat is better for a person then the herd animals. Less fat.

 

[wildthing]

wild thing,
do you know what a lemming is?

The question is do you?

Lemming " any of the various small, thidkset rodents, especially of the genus Lemmus, inhaditing northern regions and known for periodic mass migrations that sometimes end in drowning" www.yourdictionary.com.

lemming.------------------------noun
function. noun.------------------function noun
etymology Norwegian.----------- as in used to name a person, place or thing

www.m.w.com

I am not a small rodent nor do I migrate nor do I planning on ending my life by drawning (Lord knows when that will happen).

If you are using this to call me a name it could be understanding as name calling. I believe that this forum has rules about this type of action. This action is called "flaming". I have read other threads in this forum and had disagreements with others, such as Beastt (he might have felt that way about me but it was never expressed, I might have felt that way towards him but it was never mention). But even though we disagree on things and have different opinnions on things we had never called each other names, such as lemming. Such as you have called me.

I believe both side need to take a time out and think about what is being said. Think about the emotions that are being provoked. I look at the icons of both pro and anti hunters the common thread is that we "profess" Jesus as our lord and master. Can you not see that this minor issue is only splitting us apart. Are we not to unified in our belief in God?

I think the mods should put a lock on this thread! Because of the emotions that are arising from it. All That it is doing is causing ill feelings.

In the end we are still going to hunt, we are still going to fish and we will still have disagreement over the validity of our activites and our opinnions.

 

[PACKY]

The intent of this post was to allow people to talk about the dilemma I hold in regards to being a christian hunter, It has turned into posts with the sole purpose of pointing fingers, I will not change my mind, you will not change yours. like i said earlier teh bible can be twisted and mangled to make it say anything you want, Hnting is a personal choice, I no longer take part in it, if you want to hunt so be it it is your choice.. I am not here to judge you or your actions, I am making clear my feelings on the subject.[/QUOTE

]


hence my prior post!