Should Christians Hunt?

[Billnew]

This has gotten very heated for an opinion question.

 

[PACKY]

The question is do you?

Lemming " any of the various small, thidkset rodents, especially of the genus Lemmus, inhaditing northern regions and known for periodic mass migrations that sometimes end in drowning" www.yourdictionary.com.

lemming noun
function. noun function noun
etymology Norwegian as in used to name a person, place or thing

www.m.w.com

I am not a small rodent nor do I migrate nor do I planning on ending my life by drawning (Lord knows when that will happen).

If you are using this to call me a name it could be understanding as name calling. I believe that this forum has rules about this type of action. This action is called "flaming". I have read other threads in this forum and had disagreements with others, such as Beastt (he might have felt that way about me but it was never expressed, I might have felt that way towards him but it was never mention). But even though we disagree on things and have different opinnions on things we had never called each other names, such as lemming. Such as you have called me.

I believe both side need to take a time out and think about what is being said. Think about the emotions that are being provoked. I look at the icons of both pro and anti hunters the common thread is that we "profess" Jesus as our lord and master. Can you not see that this minor issue is only splitting us apart. Are we not to unified in our belief in God?

I think the mods should put a lock on this thread! Because of the emotions that are arising from it. All That it is doing is causing ill feelings.

In the end we are still going to hunt, we are still going to fish and we will still have disagreement over the validity of our activites and our opinnions.

whoa dont know where all this came from............Ok?
well any way I still respect your rights and opinions We must agree to disagree.

 

[PACKY]

I NEVER called you a lemming I asked if you know what a lemming is.
Emotions arise anytime you Question a tradition or a practice of another.
I HOLD NO ILL FEELINGS AT ALL!!!!

 

[Im_A]

Those who consider hunting and fishing to be sports might wish to ponder the meaning of the word, "sporting" for a while.

i totally agree with you. those who want to complain about hunting, i would guess, is mostly complaining about people who put the head of a deer as some twisted trophy, or hang fishes up on their walls.

i see hunting as, going out, killing an animal for food to eat. it doesn't matter if you are starving or not. i'll tell ya, eating a real bass fish is really good compared to long john silvers

i think vegetarian lifstyle is another good point with this. i mean let's say hypothetically, it is a sin to kill an animal for food, so wouldn't it be a sin to eat the food that took an animal to be killed? wouldn't someone that believes, to not be a hypocrite, change his/her eating patterns, the clothes we wear? because if we are wearing clothes that took the death of a animal, then we are being a hypocrite to our views of killing an animal is wrong. if we are eating a juciy steak at a restaurant but yet believe it is wrong to kill an animal for food, we are being a hypocrite. i think if one truly wants to believe that it is a sin to kill an animal for food, then one has to be a radical vegetarian. which is fine to me. i really don't care. people make their choices, that's fine. more power to them and may God Bless their lifestyle, but i will be so willing to eat a juicy medium rare steak, or go out and fish for bass or catfish, because i dont' believe it is a sin to kill an animal for food, and i will gladly wear my sneakers and any clothes that may have wool or any other clothing that comes from the skin of animals.

just more of my two cents. plus i want to add, i think a lot of restrictions for food in the Bible, touches a big area of the time the verses were written. they didn't have the sanitation that we have today. so it would only be logical that Paul and God would have to say at that certain time, do not eat certain types of food. not because of spiritual reasons, but because it was, back then, people were more at risk with diseases from food than we are today. plus the spiritual issues, well, i think that goes into a very specific area in the Old Testament of sacrifice, which i wont' get into the Old Law at this time, plus i'm tired, i work 3rds God Bless you all! <><

Joe

 

[Jonteel]

Blessed,
I see that you asked one poster, "Have you ever been shot?" Well, unfortunatley, I have suffered serious trama and I can tell you about it. For the first forty five minutes I felt nothing. It was like I had not been injured. When the pain finally came it was enormous. I needed some serious drugs.
I hope that none of the deer I shoot will ever live long enough to feel the pain that I inflict. I practice assiduously to be able to hit a small target at long range.
Oh, if you find a deer that has been hurt by a car, try to put it out of its misery. Consider now what you will use to kill this animal.
I came upon a group of people that were standing on the roadside. A deer had been hit. It was struggling to get up. It had two broken legs. The odd thing was that it was making a hissing noise when it breathed. I noticed that its throat had been cut. I asked how its throat had been cut, and was told that a man stopped, cut its throat, and then got in his car and drove away.
The man had opened the deer's windpipe perfectly. A perfect tracheotomy. But, he hadn't cut any blood vessels.
I stood there helpless and wondered what I could do to end this poor creatures pain.
Here are some tips: Don't drive over it. That will not kill it. I suggest that you use a blunt object or a knife. An old fashioned jack is often available in older cars and modern trucks. A last resort would be to find a tree branch. I've taken to carrying a knife. Even a small (5 inch knife) will kill it quickly. Insert the blade under the rib cage and dispatch it by moving the handle left and right.
I drive alot, so I also pack rubber gloves. I have come arcoss 4car accidents in the last 20 years. All of them were bad. The driver usually tries to get out. They don't know they should remain seated. You should try to keep them still. Neck injuries are common, and jumping around is bad for a neck injury. One girl flipped her car at 75. the car rolled sideways. Her friend was thrown clear and was on the road. The side of the drivers face was Minnesota Viking purple. She tried to get out of the car. I held her head stationary until help arrived. I was covered in blood.
Another accident involved a running engine. The dash was so crushed that I couldn't find the key. I tried to open the hood, and it was jammed. The motor was running and the vehicle was leaking gas. It was scary. Three of the four passengers were not wearing belts. They had been thrown to the front of the vehicle. The drive was pinned. They had to cut her out of the car. Two were life flighted to trama centers.
Anyway, carry rubber gloves and a sharp knife.
If nothing else, I see you honestly care for animals. I own 3 dogs Grizzly, Roxy, and Puggy. I have 4 cats. 3 Ferrets, 2 turtles, 2 cockatiels, 1 parakeet.

 

[Jonteel]

Blessed,
I see that you asked one poster, "Have you ever been shot?" Well, unfortunatley, I have suffered serious trama and I can tell you about it. For the first forty five minutes I felt nothing. It was like I had not been injured. When the pain finally came it was enormous. I needed some serious drugs.
I hope that none of the deer I shoot will ever live long enough to feel the pain that I inflict. I practice assiduously to be able to hit a small target at long range.
Oh, if you find a deer that has been hurt by a car, try to put it out of its misery. Consider now what you will use to kill this animal.
I came upon a group of people that were standing on the roadside. A deer had been hit. It was struggling to get up. It had two broken legs. The odd thing was that it was making a hissing noise when it breathed. I noticed that its throat had been cut. I asked how its throat had been cut, and was told that a man stopped, cut its throat, and then got in his car and drove away.
The man had opened the deer's windpipe perfectly. A perfect tracheotomy. But, he hadn't cut any blood vessels.
I stood there helpless and wondered what I could do to end this poor creatures pain.
Here are some tips: Don't drive over it. That will not kill it. I suggest that you use a blunt object or a knife. An old fashioned jack is often available in older cars and modern trucks. A last resort would be to find a tree branch. I've taken to carrying a knife. Even a small (5 inch knife) will kill it quickly. Insert the blade under the rib cage and dispatch it by moving the handle left and right.
I drive alot, so I also pack rubber gloves. I have come arcoss 4car accidents in the last 20 years. All of them were bad. The driver usually tries to get out. They don't know they should remain seated. You should try to keep them still. Neck injuries are common, and jumping around is bad for a neck injury. One girl flipped her car at 75. the car rolled sideways. Her friend was thrown clear and was on the road. The side of the drivers face was Minnesota Viking purple. She tried to get out of the car. I held her head stationary until help arrived. I was covered in blood.
Another accident involved a running engine. The dash was so crushed that I couldn't find the key. I tried to open the hood, and it was jammed. The motor was running and the vehicle was leaking gas. It was scary. Three of the four passengers were not wearing belts. They had been thrown to the front of the vehicle. The drive was pinned. They had to cut her out of the car. Two were life flighted to trama centers.
Anyway, carry rubber gloves and a sharp knife.
If nothing else, I see you honestly care for animals. I own 3 dogs Grizzly, Roxy, and Puggy. I have 4 cats. 3 Ferrets, 2 turtles, 2 cockatiels, 1 parakeet.

 

[wildthing]

I NEVER called you a lemming I asked if you know what a lemming is.
Emotions arise anytime you Question a tradition or a practice of another.
I HOLD NO ILL FEELINGS AT ALL!!!!

Lemming was defined for you in that post. Lemming was used indirectly as a name.(As in following a crowd in a mindless activity, as lemming seem to have a habit in doing when drowning in mass) Please don't shout I can hear (read) you just fine.

 

[PACKY]

I do not care for accusations being made.
LOOk, this thread is going n where people are taking pot shots at each other and its gettig old. so be it.

 

[PACKY]

we have resorted to dissecting each others threads vs. making new points, I think this thread is DEAD.
Anyway If I seemed to argumenative,disrespectful or agressive I appologize.

 

[wildthing]

If you want this thread to stop better ask the Mods to lock it. If it is to remain open comments will still be made. People will analyse what is being said and comments will continue.

 

[Beastt]

i totally agree with you. those who want to complain about hunting, i would guess, is mostly complaining about people who put the head of a deer as some twisted trophy, or hang fishes up on their walls.

I agree with you here. I know most wish to place humans into a completely different category than the other animals but there is no biological foundation for such action. It's as though they see three basic kingdoms of life; plant, animal, and human. But this is the result of years of conditioning rather than any study of biology, people or animals. We are, biologically, animals and there is no reason to believe that animals suffer any less than we do. What would be the average hunter's response to a human head mounted on a wall?

I love to see animals and in that, I can begin to see perhaps a little of what the hunter sees in his wall-mounted trophies. But I can also see the vast difference between a gorgeous animal, in it's natural setting and a body part or even a whole body, sitting in a room. One is a testament to nature's majesty. The other is perhaps more a testament to a lack of human understanding.

i see hunting as, going out, killing an animal for food to eat. it doesn't matter if you are starving or not. i'll tell ya, eating a real bass fish is really good compared to long john silvers

There are different kinds of hunting; hunting for food, hunting for "sport" or hunting for profit. None are necessary except possibly the first, and then only in the most remote of circumstances.

i think vegetarian lifstyle is another good point with this. i mean let's say hypothetically, it is a sin to kill an animal for food, so wouldn't it be a sin to eat the food that took an animal to be killed? wouldn't someone that believes, to not be a hypocrite, change his/her eating patterns, the clothes we wear? because if we are wearing clothes that took the death of a animal, then we are being a hypocrite to our views of killing an animal is wrong. if we are eating a juciy steak at a restaurant but yet believe it is wrong to kill an animal for food, we are being a hypocrite. i think if one truly wants to believe that it is a sin to kill an animal for food, then one has to be a radical vegetarian. which is fine to me. i really don't care. people make their choices, that's fine. more power to them and may God Bless their lifestyle, but i will be so willing to eat a juicy medium rare steak, or go out and fish for bass or catfish, because i dont' believe it is a sin to kill an animal for food, and i will gladly wear my sneakers and any clothes that may have wool or any other clothing that comes from the skin of animals.

This is another good point and I have done all of the things you mention and more. Your phrase, "radical vegetarian" is perhaps an odd choice or a choice of ignorance. (Please trust that I mean "ignorance" in it's proper form - a lack of knowledge or understanding concerning a particular topic, and not as any form of insult.) Human physiology cleary shows that the true nature of man is ignored when he chooses to live like a predator. The topic of vegetarianism has been touched on before in this thread and it has been asked that it be treated as a separate subject and not included within the discussion of hunting. Let me just state that there is nothing at all radical about following one's true nature. If you would care to pursue this aspect of the issue further, I can point you to several threads specifically created with that intent.

just more of my two cents. plus i want to add, i think a lot of restrictions for food in the Bible, touches a big area of the time the verses were written. they didn't have the sanitation that we have today. so it would only be logical that Paul and God would have to say at that certain time, do not eat certain types of food. not because of spiritual reasons, but because it was, back then, people were more at risk with diseases from food than we are today. plus the spiritual issues, well, i think that goes into a very specific area in the Old Testament of sacrifice, which i wont' get into the Old Law at this time, plus i'm tired, i work 3rds God Bless you all! <><
Joe

I agree with you again in finding that the Bible is not the best guide as to what humans should eat or even what they should seek to do within the time of their life. As has been pointed out here and in many other threads across the forum, nearly anything a person wishes to do can be read into the Bible as appropriate. Conversely, most anything a person wishes others not to do can also be supported through some level of Biblical scripture. The Bible offers some fine guidance for those who wish to seek a basic structure for life but I doubt it was ever intended as a guide for every specific detail of day-to-day life.

I read your previous post, Jonteel, and wanted to thank you for sharing your experiences concerning traumatic injury. Though I am fortunate enough to say that I have never suffered such a degree of injury, I have done some fairly extensive reading concerning gunshot wounds. Though I do not and will not hunt, I do have an interest in ballistics, specifically in the case of gunfights and the effectiveness of handguns. One of my books on the subject covers statistics from over 13,000 actual street shootings, many with brief accounts of the incidents. What you related about not feeling any real pain for 45 minutes is indeed what many report after having been shot. Some die before the pain sets in, others do not. One particular situation concerned a narcotics agent who was shot in mid abdomen during a fire-fight with drug dealers. He later described the feeling of being shot as similar to a blow in the abdomen with a sledge hammer. He remained standing for a short time. Aside from that he was disabled but completely cognizant of everything going on around him and he was in intense pain. Upon arriving at the hospital emergency room, it was found that he was bleeding from a major artery. His vital signs suggested that he might not survive being anesthetized so a surgeon was called into the treatment room where they cut his abdomen from just below the tip of the stermun, (xyphoid process), to just above the pelvic bone. Then the surgeon reached into the incision, felt around for the hemorrhaging artery and pinched it off with his fingers.

My point here is only that not all traumatic injury results in a lack of pain. Many times the level of pain is excruciating. It can last for hours or even days before proving lethal. And all of the consideration for pain completely ignores the fact that an animal which befalls the tragedy of becoming the hunter's quarry will, in the end, lose it's very life. Needlessly depriving any animal, human or not, of life is, in itself, an act of cruelty.

I have also read the comments concerning the use of names or comparisons directed in an unflattering manner at other posters. Certainly such actions do not contain the thread within the original intent and do nothing to bring thoughts onto a more common ground. I would hope that is the intent of this and most other threads -- to allow different ideas to be presented so that everyone might see at least a little of the view from the vantagepoint of others. I disagree that there is any need to bring a moderator in to close the thread. If we all see the problem then can we not all work on seeing the problem resolved? Certainly this is an emotionally charged issue. But issues of pure emotion can be discussed if that is what we desire to do. Though I am no more in a position to do so than any others here, I would ask that we continue to explore the topic while keeping tabs on our emotion and practice self-regulation when we feel we're too emotionally driven to respond appropriately. Think about coming back and responding in 20 minutes if what someone else writes drives you to the edge of civility. I've been on both sides of this issue more times than I care to remember and most of the time, if you let someone know how you felt about comments you found inappropriate, they will offer an apology and will rephrase their comments to better reflect their true intentions.

 

[Blazin4Christ]

nothing wrong with hunting at all, if it was wrong, then the children of Israel would not have been allowed to have deer meat as described in the law, I know the law is not in us anymore, but I am just using it for a historical factorate,

 

[Beastt]

nothing wrong with hunting at all, if it was wrong, then the children of Israel would not have been allowed to have deer meat as described in the law, I know the law is not in us anymore, but I am just using it for a historical factorate,

Can we not see that use of such logic could also lead us all to owning and beating slaves as well as beating our wives and doing so all within the permissions offered in the Bible?

As has been stated over and over again, the Bible does offer some fine lessons and guidance. But to use it as an ownership manual for the human body, relying on Bibilical passages to permit us those things we wish for, seems to lead us to falling a bit short of what we could be if our desire leads us to being better than we are.

Would you consider offering something aside from the Bible to support your views?

 

[Buttermilk]

Thread Locked for staff review

 

[Buttermilk]

I have reviewed the thread and have reopened it. I will monitor the situation and close it again if necessary.

Mod Hat ON

Please be curteous to all members posting in this thread.

Please stick to the question of the OP

Should Christians Hunt?

Thank you

Mod Hat OFF

 

[PACKY]

thank you Buttermilk....

 

[Ryder]

Beastt, are you seriously unable to draw a distinction between humans and animals?

Are you postulating this 'lack of distinction' as your true position?

 

[Beastt]

Beastt, are you seriously unable to draw a distinction between humans and animals?

Are you postulating this 'lack of distinction' as your true position?

Perhaps if you could quote what statements of mine have lead you to ask this question and then describe exactly where and how you divide humans from the other animals I'll be better able to provide the answer you're looking for.

Certainly I draw a distinction between humans and animals. After all, I am human. But I may not draw the same distinctions you do or I may not subscribe to the same level of distinction.

 

[Andy Broadley]

I have not read through the postings on this, so I am replying directly to the OP and apologise if I am duplicating previous replies.


I have no problem at all with Christians hunting, provided they genuinely intend eating what they hunt/catch. If the animal/bird/fish etc dies and is not intended for food then I am opposed to it.

 

[JWBZ SVT]

Normally, I hunt deer and squirrel, and I do not kill anything that I don't plan to eat. Even doing that, I always feel bad for the animal that I killed because the animal wasn't doing anything wrong--just being what it is whether it's a deer, squirrel, etc...