Should Christians fight against fallen angels.... not each other?

[Divide]

Isn't that the serpent seed doctrine?

No it's not. Scripture doesn't say anything about Eve and Satan having sexual relations. This view is called the Angel view and started later in history than the Garden.

The book of Enoch doesn't say anything about Eve either. Enoch names many of the fallen angels and Satan isn't among them. That's kind of a big point and one would think it would be there if that did happen.

 

[DennisTate]

What is a hybrid?

A hybrid is a child, produced by the union of a Watcher / son of God, with a great, great, great grand daughter of Adam and Eve through Cain and Luluwa.

Here are the verses that also have me wondering if the Ancient of Days the FAther has a back up plan to lead a very high percentage of fallen angels to eventual repentance.

Interestingly, the Book of Enoch mentions ten thousand years to bring some of the Watchers to a different level, which is quite a contrast to the plan to bring humans back to obedience and fear of God within 6000 or 7000 years.

These verses give us an idea of how the Ancient of Days the Father, (who Messiah Yeshua - Jesus stated plainly was greater than him), may perhaps feel about the fallen angels and especially the fallen Watchers / sons of God.



Acts 13:22

"And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will."

2Samuel 19:4

But the king covered his face, and the king cried with a loud voice, O my son Absalom, O Absalom, my son, my son!"


Could God be the most emotional being in the universe????

 

[DennisTate]

Isn't the book of enoch Gnostic?

Tradition has it that Judas Didymus Thomas, (Doubting Thomas) went to India, and eventually was martyred there. He was a major leader in what came to be known as Gnostic Christianity.

An interesting reference was made about this in a recent episode of Sid Roth where he interviews Jonathan Cahn again.

Predestination and even pre-existence of the human spirit or soul even before our physical birth, or even our conception is strongly hinted at in many scriptures. Gnostic Christians had ideas on pre-destination and pre-existence of the human soul that came to be considered heretical..... but frankly.... Christians could be killed during the dark ages for having a bath just before the Jewish sabbath...... or observing the Jewish Sabbath, (friday sunset to Saturday sunset), in any significant way.

 

[brinny]

A hybrid is a child, produced by the union of a Watcher / son of God, with a great, great, great grand daughter of Adam and Eve through Cain and Luluwa.

Here are the verses that also have me wondering if the Ancient of Days the FAther has a back up plan to lead a very high percentage of fallen angels to eventual repentance.

Interestingly, the Book of Enoch mentions ten thousand years to bring some of the Watchers to a different level, which is quite a contrast to the plan to bring humans back to obedience and fear of God within 6000 or 7000 years.

These verses give us an idea of how the Ancient of Days the Father, (who Messiah Yeshua - Jesus stated plainly was greater than him), may perhaps feel about the fallen angels and especially the fallen Watchers / sons of God.



Acts 13:22

"And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will."

2Samuel 19:4

But the king covered his face, and the king cried with a loud voice, O my son Absalom, O Absalom, my son, my son!"


Could God be the most emotional being in the universe????

The book of enoch is gnostic occultism and associated with enochian mysticism and occultism, isn't it? It's where "enochian" is derivated from. It's basically saying that the man of God, "Enoch" is the originator of occultic and magick practices.

 

[DennisTate]

The book of enoch is gnostic occultism and associated with enochian mysticism and occultism, isn't it? It's where "enochian" is derivated from. It's basically saying that the man of God, "Enoch" is the originator of occultic and magick practices.

Actually....... The Testament of Solomon is more likely the book that certain occultists would be most interested in but........... I used to argue with Satanists on a number of forums and yes, some of them did seem to have read Enoch.

 

[brinny]

Actually....... The Testament of Solomon is more likely the book that certain occultists would be most interested in but........... I used to argue with Satanists on a number of forums and yes, some of them did seem to have read Enoch.

That's where the Enochian Magick came from. The book of enoch. That's why it's called Enochian.

 

[DennisTate]

That's where the Enochian Magick came from. The book of enoch. That's why it's called Enochian.

Interesting!

Although the Book of Enoch was considered part of the Christian canon for centuries, I suppose that to whatever degree Enochian Magick existed before the time of Pope Jerome, this could have played a role in why it was rejected in favor of The Apocalypse /The Book of Revelation.

 

[brinny]

Interesting!

Although the Book of Enoch was considered part of the Christian canon for centuries, I suppose that to whatever degree Enochian Magick existed before the time of Pope Jerome, this could have played a role in why it was rejected in favor of The Apocalypse /The Book of Revelation.

The book of enoch is a Gnostic occultic part of the group of books that are “pseudepigrapha,” which means “false writings.” A simple example of an Enochic fallacy is the descriptions of Noah as a newborn baby in which “his form and appearance are not like the form of human beings…and his eyes are like the rays of the sun…which made the whole house bright. And he stood up from the hands of the midwife and he opened his mouth and praised the Lord of eternity” (1 Enoch 106:10-11,18;107:3).

 

[Shempster]

Jude and Peter both quote the stories we see in Enoch. It seemed that they had read it and the parts we have today match. So there is at least a connection.
The only question left is Is the book of Enoch that we have today the same one Jude and Peter read?
It is possible that it was edited over time, but that's possible for any text which is dated far from the originals.

Its interesting to note that when Enoch was removed as part of the canon, the same people wanted Revelation tossed as well. This is what I remember reading somewhere. The council of Laodicea. What's even more interesting is that Laodicia was the church that Jesus reprimanded the most in Rev 2!

Coincidence?

 

[DennisTate]

Jude and Peter both quote the stories we see in Enoch. It seemed that they had read it and the parts we have today match. So there is at least a connection.
The only question left is Is the book of Enoch that we have today the same one Jude and Peter read?
It is possible that it was edited over time, but that's possible for any text which is dated far from the originals.

Its interesting to note that when Enoch was removed as part of the canon, the same people wanted Revelation tossed as well. This is what I remember reading somewhere. The council of Laodicea. What's even more interesting is that Laodicia was the church that Jesus reprimanded the most in Rev 2!

Coincidence?

Exactly..... that is exactly what we need to know!

Hopefully the research at Qumran will yield some answers.

 

[Divide]

I get it. You're an Anti-Pauline Catholic. Some Messianic's are Anti-Pauline.

John:
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John:
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

It's a promise I have all faith in. As well as the the Hauptbriefe.

Aha, I found something for you. I can't find your exact post in this thread, but I know it was you who said it. I had mentioned the Old Testament, and you said it was useless, and if it wasn't to show you where...(words to that effect at least.)

I found it. Now I know that you are big on the NT, and adhere to Christ, and the teachings in the NT, so we're starting on a good foundation here.
Why should you read the OT?
The answer is given in 1 Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 10:
10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.../

So everything that happened to them in the OT happened for a reason. Not only was God dealijg with them, but He dealt with them in such a way, as to give us in the last days an example of what and why and so forth. So the OT is very much worth studying. This is why they say the OT is full of types and shadows of things to come.

It is not two books, Brother. It is one book, complete. The NT may be somewhat mis-named. For it is not a "new" covenant (as in brand new) but a modified covenant. An addendum to the original covenant. Just like in modern contracts.

There you have it Brother. Glad I could help.

 

[DennisTate]

Aha, I found something for you. I can't find your exact post in this thread, but I know it was you who said it. I had mentioned the Old Testament, and you said it was useless, and if it wasn't to show you where...(words to that effect at least.)

I found it. Now I know that you are big on the NT, and adhere to Christ, and the teachings in the NT, so we're starting on a good foundation here.
Why should you read the OT?
The answer is given in 1 Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 10:
10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.../

So everything that happened to them in the OT happened for a reason. Not only was God dealijg with them, but He dealt with them in such a way, as to give us in the last days an example of what and why and so forth. So the OT is very much worth studying. This is why they say the OT is full of types and shadows of things to come.

It is not two books, Brother. It is one book, complete. The NT may be somewhat mis-named. For it is not a "new" covenant (as in brand new) but a modified covenant. An addendum to the original covenant. Just like in modern contracts.

There you have it Brother. Glad I could help.

Well said.....
what do you personally think of these statements by Grant R. Jeffrey Ph. D?:

"The Sacrificial System Will Continue

One of the most perplexing ideas to students of Scripture is the idea that God intends that the annual feasts, along with animal sacrifice, will continue into the Millennium. Many Christians who have studied the prophetic portions of Zechariah 14, Isaiah 66, and Ezekiel 40 - 48, which clearly describe these Millennial worship ordinations, are confused by the idea. They ask, "Didn't the sacrifice of Christ eliminate animal sacrifices forever?"

............"Only the complete sacrifice of Jesus could ever totally atone for our sins. However, God clearly demanded the sacrifices from Adam to Christ. Those sacrifices were acts of obedience to the direct command of God, as well as acknowledgements of one's own personal sinfulness and need for God's forgiveness. Animal sacrifices covered the sins of the people temporarily until the prophesied Messiah would come and offer Himself once and for all as the necessary atonement for sin. If animal sacrifice can never atone for sin, why would God allow Israel to resume such sacrifice in the Third Temple, prior to Armageddon, and then demand that Israel continue such sacrifice in the Millennium? There are two reasons why I believe this is true."

First, the early Jewish - Christian Church continued to offer sacrifices in the first century.".......



.......Second, New Testament writers used the legal sacrificial system to illustrate very important points concerning Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.......

..... These examples of the way early Jewish believers used God's law to teach great love when He sacrificed His only Son on the cross will be repeated during the Millennium." (Grant R. Jeffrey, Messiah, War in the Middle East and the Road to Armageddon, page 317, 318 and 319)

 

[Divide]

Well said.....
what do you personally think of these statements by Grant R. Jeffrey Ph. D?:

Well I agree with a lot of what he says, like God instituted animal sacrifice to temporarily atone for their sins until Jesus comes...and to give them the idea that a sacrifice is what has to be made to atone for sins thereby setting the stage for Jesus, so that everyone understands what He was doing and why He did it.

Now that bit about allowing it to continue into the millennial reign of Christ...would have to be wrong or it would diminish the work that Jesus did...however, mankind is stupid enough to begin sacrificing animals once they rebuild the temple, which I'm pretty sure that they're going to. It is written in such a way that it sounds like there will be a third temple built in Jerusalem. And that the anti-christ will seat himself in it and call himself god. But us Brothers and Sisters all already know that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit in these days, now that the Comforter has come.

 

[DennisTate]

Well I agree with a lot of what he says, like God instituted animal sacrifice to temporarily atone for their sins until Jesus comes...and to give them the idea that a sacrifice is what has to be made to atone for sins thereby setting the stage for Jesus, so that everyone understands what He was doing and why He did it.

Now that bit about allowing it to continue into the millennial reign of Christ...would have to be wrong or it would diminish the work that Jesus did...however, mankind is stupid enough to begin sacrificing animals once they rebuild the temple, which I'm pretty sure that they're going to. It is written in such a way that it sounds like there will be a third temple built in Jerusalem. And that the anti-christ will seat himself in it and call himself god. But us Brothers and Sisters all already know that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit in these days, now that the Comforter has come.

True..... but it seems to me that the anti-Christ guy is the one who STOPS the sacrifices in the temple, after they have already been made for 42 months....... He stops them for 42 months..... .then Messiah Yeshua - Jesus comes and fulfills Zechariah 14 and judges him????

 

[Divide]

True..... but it seems to me that the anti-Christ guy is the one who STOPS the sacrifices in the temple, after they have already been made for 42 months....... He stops them for 42 months..... .then Messiah Yeshua - Jesus comes and fulfills Zechariah 14 and judges him????

Yeah, if he stops them, then they would have had to be started at some time...and then...Jesus...!!!