Should Christians fight against fallen angels.... not each other?

[Divide]

When God wanted them to take dictation, he said so, as in Revelation, where he told John to write specific words. Most of scripture is not dictation. It's a man inspired by God to write something. The man wrote it.

I agree with this. This is another facet of how God wrote His book, and what He wanted to say to us. But this facet would merely be one facet of a specific message portion of that section and would have little to do with what He did in other sections of His book and the related messages there. That God instructed men to write specific wording in sections would not necessarily mean that it is the only way that He wrote throughout. Why would it? This is not proof that there was not dictation throughout the entire scriptures, or that there is no dictation in other places because He didn't instruct them in writing to take dictation.

ELS codes are big, HUGE. There's too many of them for it to be able to be denounced (in my mind at least).

Quick, what are men judged on, deeds or beliefs? Jesus said deeds. Paul seems to say beliefs. So, who trumps? Jesus, obviously, because he's God. "But Paul was inspired by God!" Yes, but neverthless God speaking directly is of higher authority than a man inspired by God. Where there is conflict and contradiction, which there is, then what God said out of his own mouth trumps what a man inspired by God wrote from his own inspired head. This is obvious.

Deeds, indeed (Lol). Paul seems to say beliefs...where? (It's still early for me Brother lol)
Every time in the past when I have found an apparent contradiction, further study has always shown that there was no contradiction, but that I myself had misunderstood. So I'd be interested in your giving examples of these thing so that we can delve into that subject matter a little deeper for to bring clarity.

(1A) (It doesn't sound like it. That God isn't mighty enough to get a good copy of His word into your hands throughout the centuries? That His word will never pass away? ...)
A: It sounds to me as though you think that the Bible is an oracle, that every single word in it is a direct dictation from God. Thus, the Bible stands there and talks as God. That looks a whole lot like idolatry to me.

Yes Brother, I believe that every word in scripture is direct dictation from God. There are scriptures to this effect, but it is still too early for me to bring them out fast right now. There may indeed be confusion brought about by translations. Some languages do not have proper words for original language words so they (translators) took a stab at it and translated what they thought may be close enough. Which is why it is important for us to either learn Hebrew and Greek, or at least use a concordance or Blueletter Bible.com which is an online concordance, so that we can read the different definitions of the word in it's original language and perhaps try to reread whatever particular verse we're working on and apply different definitions to the passage to see how it would read then. This often shows a much different perspective and meaning to a passage than what the passage is thought to say. For me it does.
Why would that be idolatry? The Bible is not God, nor do I hold it to be. It is our owners manual for life is all. It's very important, and we do have a responsibility to read it and understand it, to show ourselves approved. Who would want to show up on the day of the Lord and say, oh I didn't read your book, your word to us bearing the record of your love and plan for our life...I had better things to do...Uh-oh. Not something I want to have to explain!

Continued....Lol...coffee...Coffeeee.

 

[DennisTate]

Why would being a hybrid make one ineligible for redemption?

Consider that there were nephilim after the Flood also. The Anakim, whom the Israelites encountered in Canaan, and Azog the gigantesque king; even Goliath. Were these not post-flood descendants of human-angel unions, post flood Nephil? Were they not men, just like everybody else - as prone to sin and as prone to forgiveness.

Consider the Basques. They have weird blood, a weird language, are only partially interfertile with all other people because of their blood type. They don't seem to have "come from" anywhere. There is no record of their migrations, and they have no known relatives. Their own legendary history says that they came from the giants of the Mountains, who eventually went back up into the mountains (except for Olentzaro, who foretold for them the coming of Christ, and who is the "giant of Christmas" the Basques put up every year). Are the Basques not, perhaps, descendants of Nephilim, hybrids? And yet, are the Basques not men, and if they follow Jesus are they not eligible for the City of God, just like anybody else?

Why wouldn't they be?

That is what I was thinking too..... in our time period.....
and even in the time period of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus it was difficult for the rich to be saved......
because wealth leads to pride..........

.... in the time of King David and Goliath..... .being a giant and being able to carry around a huge sword and spear,........ was kind of like being very wealthy later on..... it made it difficult to not fall into pride......... but Messiah Yeshua - Jesus can humble anybody,....... even the rich and even giants.

 

[Divide]

Pride can be overcome with the help of the Lord. Being a hybrid can not.

 

[Vicomte13]

There's a lot of truth in what you wrote, but I have to disagree with your conclusion (which seems to be that the OT is useless and there's nothing in it for us).

Please don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that NT gifts and stuff were given to all in the OT or anything like that. I'm saying that there's many prophetic truths in the OT which spoke of and pointed to The gospel of the NT. Types and shadows.

I really don't think that the Old Testament is useless. But I think that in the hands of most people it is WORSE than useless. The problem lies in the theology that tells people that they can pick up a complicated translation of an ancient legal text and understand it, indeed that God will give them the specific ability to understand it.

Who believes that anybody on the street can pick up a legal statute book and court cases and "understand" them well enough to be permitted to earn a living representing other people in court when they are on trial for their lives and property.

No intelligent person believes that. Virtually everybody supports the licensing requirement for lawyers. To be a lawyer - to be allowed to advertise one's self as a lawyer, and take money to stand up and speak in the defense of other people in court and before administrative tribunals and prosecutors, one has to have seven years of college - four undergraduate and three in law school, and then one has to take and pass a non-trivial state bar examination that has a fairly high failure rate. John F. Kennedy Junior failed the New York Bar exam twice. Heck, Benjamin Cardozo, who later became a prominent US Supreme Court Justice, failed the bar exam.

Law is not easy in our own native language.

3000 year old law translated from another language, from a culture with radically different reference points, is much more difficult.

And that is what the Torah is. All of the Law in the Old Testament is given in the Torah, the first five books. That is, above all, a LAW book. Christians have behaved stupidly and insanely with what is in that book for two millennia. It is not a joke: 50,000 people - FIFTY THOUSAND PEOPLE! - were burnt alive by the Lutherans as witches in Germany during the witch hunts of the 1500s.

WHERE in the Bible does it EVER SAY that CHRISTIANS have any right to kill witches, even if they are actual witches?

NOWHERE!

In FACT, the Bible makes it crystal clear that to do so is MURDER, pure and simple.

"But, but...'You shall not suffer a witch to live'"! Some ignoramus reads out of the Old Testament law book. Because this person is just reading a book, doesn't read it as law, doesn't read it as an integral legal text, doesn't see who it applies to - in short, believes that he understands something about which is manifestly ignorant, he goes ahead and commits MURDER - and justifies it with a text that actually tells him he is going to go to hell for having done that.

And THEN this murderous doofus goes ahead and drags a million other people to hell along with him, because they helped hunt the witches and sat around and cheered as their fellow men and women screamed in the flames. ALL of those people who condemned and who cheered the deaths of witches are murderers, UNREPENTANT murders, because in their arrogant ignorance they really believed themselves qualified to read an ancient lawbook and be lawyers.

They all answered for their murders in hell.

THAT is the problem with the Old Testament. There are a lot of death penalty laws in it, and ignoramuses who practice that law without a license and then go KILL people because "It says..." when they do not understand what it says because they are not reading it properly - these people have actually become murderers BECAUSE OF having read the Bible, and done things they never would have done in the first place had they left the Old Testament alone.

THAT is why the Old Testament is useless. Really, if not read by properly trained legal minds - it IS a law book - it causes men to do monstrous evil, worse than if they had never read it. In that sense, the Old Testament is WORSE than useless.

If men read those laws, but do not read them as an integral whole and realize that they ONLY APPLIED to Hebrews IN Israel UNDER the Temple priesthood ON THEIR VERY TERMS, then men will do evil and abominable things because they will "obey" PART of the law, and ignore the part that says they don't have any authority to do any of that because they're not Jews in Israel under the Temple Priests.

That's the problem with the Old Testament: Christians have arrogated to themselves law degrees in ancient Jewish laws that they do not have (and cannot get), and in the process, have actually become some of the worst most demonic mass murderers in human history.

Christianity did not discredit itself in the eyes of the world because Christians were naive lovers and callow. They fatally wounded the reputation of Christianity by being such bloody minded murderous demons, quoting the Old Testament as they did it.

THAT is why the Old Testament is useless. Because read wrong, it is the source of malignant evil.

 

[Vicomte13]

Pride can be overcome with the help of the Lord. Being a hybrid can not.

The lord gave the hybrid the breath of life the same as he gave it to everybody else, so yes, it can. Who are you to say what the Lord can and cannot do?

 

[brinny]

Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."


Pastor Rick Joyner in a visionary dream of heaven given to him back in 1995 states that arrows with the name HOPE on them would be the ones that would work against the demons!




(Pastor Rick Joyner, The Final Quest):



I go into a theory here that we may be living in the time period when the kingdom of Satan is divided..... and it falls:

Does Darth Vader = Azazel = Zeus???

Did Jesus the Christ shed His blood and die for demons? Or Satan?

 

[DennisTate]

Did Jesus the Christ shed His blood and die for demons? Or Satan?

No... .he died for the descendants of Abraham........
but was the fulfillment of Passover a foundation for a latter day Yom Kippur / Day of Atonement next level to the expansion of the government of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus into new and even darker places.......?


Isaiah 9:7

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

 

[DennisTate]

Pride can be overcome with the help of the Lord. Being a hybrid can not.

That is a question that I have wondered about!

 

[brinny]

No... .he died for the descendants of Abraham........
but was the fulfillment of Passover a foundation for a latter day Yom Kippur / Day of Atonement next level to the expansion of the government of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus into new and even darker places.......?


Isaiah 9:7

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Who did Jesus the Christ shed His blood on the cross for?

 

[DennisTate]

Who did Jesus the Christ shed His blood on the cross for?

You and I and all humans who will accept his sacrifice........
not for angels fallen or otherwise.......
but you and I once we accept Messiah Yeshua - Jesus's sacrifice for us.... we do go out with that forgiveness even to our enemies......... which I am wondering if the word enemies.... can be taken to the extreme?????????

Mat 5:44

“But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[fn]

 

[brinny]

You and I and all humans who will accept his sacrifice........
not for angels fallen or otherwise.......
but you and I once we accept Messiah Yeshua - Jesus's sacrifice for us.... we do go out with that forgiveness even to our enemies......... which I am wondering if the word enemies.... can be taken to the extreme?????????

Mat 5:44

“But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[fn]

It's speaking of "human" enemies.

It's in reference to this verse....that God sent His only begotten Son to die for all humankind, those who accept His only begotten Son as their Savior:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ~John 3:16

Satan and all his minions have no Savior.

 

[DennisTate]

It's speaking of "human" enemies.

It's in reference to this verse....that God sent His only begotten Son to die for all humankind, those who accept His only begotten Son as their Savior:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ~John 3:16

Satan and all his minions have no Savior.

You are correct that that is the number one most important meaning in that verse........
but I have been wondering for decades if there could be even more to some unusual statements in the Bible????


Jhn 6:70

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

 

[brinny]

You are correct that that is the number one most important meaning in that verse........
but I have been wondering for decades if there could be even more to some unusual statements in the Bible????


Jhn 6:70

Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

He was referring to Judas.

(Dennis, what'cha been reading, buddy?)

 

[DennisTate]

He was referring to Judas.

(Dennis, what'cha been reading, buddy?)

Here is some of it.......

Hebrews 7:12

"For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."

Does Yom Kippur / the FAst Day of Atonement indicate an expansion of salvation..... even into the kingdom of the fallen angels?

The era in which the earth will be restored is made clear in the Prophets and elaborated on in the Book of Enoch:



Books of Enoch

17 And then shall all the righteous escape,
And shall live till they beget thousands of children,
And all the days of their youth and their old age
Shall they complete in peace.

18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and 19 be full of blessing. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield 20 ten presses of oil. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth 21 destroy from off the earth. And all the children of men shall become righteous, and all nations 22 shall offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.

[Chapter 11]

1 And in those days I will open the store chambers of blessing which are in the heaven, so as to send 2 them down upon the earth over the work and labour of the children of men. And truth and peace shall be associated together throughout all the days of the world and throughout all the generations of men.'

 

[brinny]

Here is some of it.......

Hebrews 7:12

"For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."

Does Yom Kippur / the FAst Day of Atonement indicate an expansion of salvation..... even into the kingdom of the fallen angels?

The era in which the earth will be restored is made clear in the Prophets and elaborated on in the Book of Enoch:



Books of Enoch

Isn't the book of enoch Gnostic?

 

[brinny]

Pride can be overcome with the help of the Lord. Being a hybrid can not.

What is a hybrid?

 

[Divide]

What is a hybrid?

A being called the Nephilim which the bible speaks of in Genesis 6:4

Genesis 6:
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.../

Part fallen Angel and part human.

 

[Vicomte13]

A being called the Nephilim which the bible speaks of in Genesis 6:4

Genesis 6:
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.../

Part fallen Angel and part human.

Yes. And Genesis tells us that this happened both before the Flood and afterwards. Among the Canaanites, the Anakim were supposedly descended from Nephilim.

In the world today, one culture, the Basques, believe themselves to be descended from the giants of the hills (the Pyrenees), who were Nephilim.

 

[brinny]

A being called the Nephilim which the bible speaks of in Genesis 6:4

Genesis 6:
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.../

Part fallen Angel and part human.

Isn't that the serpent seed doctrine?

 

[Divide]

Yes. And Genesis tells us that this happened both before the Flood and afterwards. Among the Canaanites, the Anakim were supposedly descended from Nephilim.

In the world today, one culture, the Basques, believe themselves to be descended from the giants of the hills (the Pyrenees), who were Nephilim.

That's believable. Not so oddly enough, the same areas that Joshua was unsucessful in driving out or killing the Nephilim back then...are the same areas under dispute today.