Should Christian Balance Christianity and Politics?

[Albion]

And I am not saying god is not real...but neither am I a conservatives Christian.

Are you a Christian of any variety? When a person lists himself as
"non-denominational" it ordinarily means that he belongs to an independent Christian congregation or else is a Christian who does not feel the need to affiliate with or attend the services of any particular church.

 

[Paradox.79]

With respect to Christians, you're wrong.

There is very little of what you are alleging. Bringing the Gospel to many nations isn't forcing anything, and advocating for laws that protect other people from violence is not to "to force there [sic] religious and moral beliefs onto" anyone else.

Are you saying that an atheist, for example, who opposes police brutality, unjust imprisonments, destruction of the environment, aggressive wars, and etc. is acting properly, but if a Christian also favors such measures, he's going where he has no right to tread and that it's nothing but forcing the Christian religion upon people?? What nonsense that argument is.

Man I grew up in the 80s I watched televangelist preach on tv...and then find out there cheats, liars, thieves, adulteresses. A Christian personality on tv named Bob Larson I think went on and on about teenage mutant ninja turtles as being of the devil sheer idiocy. I watched and stopped so called Christians from beating up gay people. I listen to Pat Robertson saying some island country suffered a hurricane cause they all sold there souls to the devil. How does he know this...I think he even said god told him Trump would win. The man is becoming a laughing stock. I was raised in the church....I left it cause of all the Hypocrisy and ignorance. I did not leave god but I sure as hell am not a Christian in the way you are

 

[Paradox.79]

Are you a Christian of any variety? When a person lists himself as
"non-denominational" it ordinarily means that he belongs to an independent Christian congregation or else is a Christian who does not feel the need to affiliate with or attend the services of any particular church.

I was baptized, and accepted Christ as my savior...and I left the church...I never left Christ...I left the hypocrisy that watched with my own eyes.

 

[Albion]

Man I grew up in the 80s I watched televangelist preach on tv...and then find out there cheats, liars, thieves, adulteresses.

First, I have to note that your posts so far show not much knowledge of Christian doctrine or history. But now you're stigmatizing the largest religion in the world because you don't like some of the TV evangelists, etc. Well, neither do we! Nor any believer who is a cheat or liar, etc. EVERY organization has the same problem because they're made up of humans!

I was raised in the church....I left it cause of all the Hypocrisy and ignorance.

What a mistake. You, Im guessing are referring to your experience in SOME particular church, and that could be at the root of your resentment now.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Why are you guys the minority now. A few reason, biology, geology, astronomy, the study of history, has debunked a good chunk of the bible. The new testament contradicts itself regularly. Another problem the entire new testament was written long after Jesus had to gone back to haven and all of the apostles were dead. Then at the council of Nicaea the bible we read today was created...the book was edited, translated in hundreds of languages and depending on the language one word can mean multiple things. Books were removed. And Christian like pretending none of this happened. And today the problem is organized religion mainly the big two Islam and Christianity think they have right to force there religious and moral belief onto another. I hate to break this to you and every other conservative Christian out there...ITS NOT FREEDOM OF CHRISTIANITY!!!! ITS FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

And I am not saying god is not real...but neither am I a conservatives Christian.

No, the reason we're the minority now is because Judeo/Christian moral values have been
replaced with relative moral values.

Instead of following God's laws, people are making themselves gods by making up their own
moral laws, which change according to the political winds.

 

[timothyu]

The sheer arrogance to think you have the right to force your beliefs onto on other it is hilarious.

Does that apply also to the many secular religions of the left such as BLM or the Cancel Culture or of the extremists on the right? We seem to be seeing a lot more of that than any classic religious influence.

 

[timothyu]

When a person lists himself as
"non-denominational" it ordinarily means that he belongs to an independent Christian congregation or else is a Christian who does not feel the need to affiliate with or attend the services of any particular church.

Or just doesn't want to be labelled as such and such in any discussion because many attack the poster first rather than the post.

 

[Paradox.79]

Does that apply also to the many secular religions of the left such as BLM or the Cancel Culture or of the extremists on the right? We seem to be seeing a lot more of that than any classic religious influence.

I will say all of them, Christianity, Islam Then we have the woke, sjw ,race ,gender, sexual orientation politics. It took me forever to find a church I could stomach, and i do not particularly care for society as a whole. I have hope for my kids...I raised them to believe in god and evolution...one does not have to be separate from the other. I taught them sex education how to defend themselves one of them I just sent of to college. The problem with the world today is it is very tunnel vision instead of looking at the world as a whole.

 

[timothyu]

The problem with the world today is it is very tunnel vision instead of looking at the world as a whole.

Yes, self interest has become epidemic. Rights over responsibility, the battle cry.

 

[Paradox.79]

No, the reason we're the minority now is because Judeo/Christian moral values have been
replaced with relative moral values.

Instead of following God's laws, people are making themselves gods by making up their own
moral laws, which change according to the political winds.

Do not steal, lie, cheat, kill...that is not Christian moral that is the rule law for the most part world wide. your talking about your religious views. I believe in teaching our kids sex education...many Christian adults...it is a coincidence that most people who's kids get std's and teen pregnancy's are those who preach abstinence only. I said this in another post I lost friends to HIV. There Christian Parents told they a flat a lie that condoms do not work...big surprise the teenage kids had sex...with know condom...there dead now. I believe you should educate your children so that they can make intelligent decisions. Many Christian morals says burry your head in sand and pretend there is no problem.

 

[Paradox.79]

Yes, self interest has become epidemic. Rights over responsibility, the battle cry.

Well the moral rules of do not kill lie steal and cheat are pretty much world wide. But each group wants to enforce there view on everyone else.

 

[timothyu]

Well the moral rules of do not kill lie steal and cheat are pretty much world wide. But each group wants to enforce there view on everyone else.

Well unfortunately the world has never run on the principle that minorities rule or should even get their way. But the concept does serve those who actually do rule who have no interest in morals or ethics, but in power and gain. Keeping the masses squabbling among themselves over their minor self serving issues has allowed the real players to carry on as they always have. It is all a foolish and fruitless game continually played by mankind. As an example look at how the rabble was used to stir things up last year before an election. Now the y are silent or ignored because they serve no purpose to the real players until next time.

It really is time for people to wake and if they expect any change they must stop by playing the old games and come up with a new system where all the cream no longer stays at the top. A reversal pf the new world government of Corporatism. A long time ago God and Jesus said the same thing, abandon the ways of man for the ways of God and no one listened, especially Christianity. They are not listening still so frankly deserve the world we have made for ourselves which benefits the few and people can't live and let live but demand all live their way.

 

[Paradox.79]

Well unfortunately the world has never run on the principle that minorities rule or should even get their way. But the concept does serve those who actually do rule who have no interest in morals or ethics, but in power and gain. Keeping the masses squabbling among themselves over their minor self serving issues has allowed the real players to carry on as they always have. It is all a foolish and fruitless game continually played by mankind. As an example look at how the rabble was used to stir things up last year before an election. Now the y are silent or ignored because they serve no purpose to the real players until next time.

It really is time for people to wake and if they expect any change they must stop by playing the old games and come up with a new system where all the cream no longer stays at the top. A reversal pf the new world government of Corporatism. A long time ago God and Jesus said the same thing, abandon the ways of man for the ways of God and no one listened, especially Christianity. They are not listening still so frankly deserve the world we have made for ourselves which benefits the few and people can't live and let live but demand all live their way.

Okay lets follow the biblical rules. In the new testament in Acts a couple was sentenced to death for lying. If you do not follow Christ is does not matter how you live your life you burn in a lake of fire for all time.

Lets go to old testament, a girl is raped she has to marry here rapist...if she does scream loud enough she is put to death. Lets look at the crimes that require death...working on the sabbath, disrespecting your parents or god, prostitute, witch or wicca today.

I always though the punishment should fit the crime. I believe when we die we will judged by god not just on how we worshiped but on how we lived our lives. How many popes are in hell...probably all of them every one of them covered up child rape. Televangelist are liars, cheats, thieves, greedy con artists, judgmental, hypocrites. I have not seen one when there put under the microscope that can hold up. Its the judgmental hypocrisy that is driving people away from the church. If my child was gay and god told me he or she was going to burn in hell for that crime...loving someone...I chose hell as well...most parents I know would. I am not like Abraham...if god told me to sacrifice my child for him I would tell him to (word not allowed to say). Most parents would not chose god over there children other extremist. How much of sacrifice was Christ's crucifiction...at any time he could have come of that cross and kicked the heck out of all of them. It is easy when your the ruler of the universe and you have a rigged deck. I do not believe in god because the bible says so...I believe cause it is the only logical truth. The universe is to complex to have come about by chance...the mathematical odds of it are so great that in the world of match its impossible. I think the bible is a good guidebook but I know that its been edited and books have been added and taken away. I know that the bible was not put together till a generation after the apostles died. The writers of the bible believed the earth was flat and the center of the universe...we know for a fact that is not true. We know diseases are not caused by evil spirts but by germs and filth. Tell me something god would have a full knowledge of the universe and medicine...why were many of the rules ignorant...because an all know all wise god would give bad instructions...it means the book was written with the superstitious views of that time.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Do not steal, lie, cheat, kill...that is not Christian moral that is the rule law for the most part world wide. your talking about your religious views. I believe in teaching our kids sex education...many Christian adults...it is a coincidence that most people who's kids get std's and teen pregnancy's are those who preach abstinence only. I said this in another post I lost friends to HIV. There Christian Parents told they a flat a lie that condoms do not work...big surprise the teenage kids had sex...with know condom...there dead now. I believe you should educate your children so that they can make intelligent decisions. Many Christian morals says burry your head in sand and pretend there is no problem.

Before God gave us the Ten Commandments, stealing, cheating, lying and killing were part and accepted by most cultures. Read about human sacrifices, cannibalisms other savage practices
ancient cultures practiced before the Ten Commandments were accepted as God's moral code.

If not for Christianity coming to the Aztecs, they would've continued having human sacrifices
to appease the gods they worshiped. They thought lunar eclipses were signs that the gods were
appeased.

Judeo/Christian moral laws were accepted by most of Europe and the US and are what help
the cultures evolve. Individual freedom came from Christianity and the US was the first nation
to have a government by the people instead of a nation run by kings and Tyrants. If you think the USA wasn't the first to create the freedoms we have today, tell us of the others.

Fact is, slowly moral values are being created by the individual and relative to their own desires
and God's moral laws are being rejected.

 

[timothyu]

Fact is, slowly moral values are being created by the individual and relative to their own desires
and God's moral laws are being rejected.

Exactly, which is why the fledgling Gentile church abandoned the governance of God in favour of working with the governance of man for mutual gain.

 

[Paradox.79]

Before God gave us the Ten Commandments, stealing, cheating, lying and killing were part and accepted by most cultures. Read about human sacrifices, cannibalisms other savage practices
ancient cultures practiced before the Ten Commandments were accepted as God's moral code.

If not for Christianity coming to the Aztecs, they would've continued having human sacrifices
to appease the gods they worshiped. They thought lunar eclipses were signs that the gods were
appeased.

Judeo/Christian moral laws were accepted by most of Europe and the US and are what help
the cultures evolve. Individual freedom came from Christianity and the US was the first nation
to have a government by the people instead of a nation run by kings and Tyrants. If you think the USA wasn't the first to create the freedoms we have today, tell us of the others.

Fact is, slowly moral values are being created by the individual and relative to their own desires
and God's moral laws are being rejected.

The only laws being ignored are the was concerning religious views. I am not talking about the ancient the world that lived in superstition, and you know this. YOU know what is funny we are one planet in one solar system out of 100 of millions in one galaxy surrounded by billions of galaxy's...which there own millions of solar systems and planets and stars...it is the height off arrogance to not consider that there other life in this universe with there own beliefs. And some how 2 billion Christians on a planet of 7 billion think there way is the only way. You know what I am not a Christian...I believe Christ and God...I do not believe the bible is anything more than a study book on how to have a relationship with god. I believe in evolution and the big and they both can be proven...religion is a matter of faith not fact. I do not have the right to force my views onto another but many christians and muslims believe they do

 

[Hazelelponi]

.I believe Christ and God...I do not believe the bible

We know about Christ and God from the testimony of the Bible.

If you don't believe that testimony, then all your able to believe is that billions of people believe Jesus of Nazareth is the awaited Messiah, in accordance with their faith, as well as believe that He is one aspect of the triune God, which consists of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

On your end, your stated belief (simply that others believe in Him and you believe He lived?) would not be salvific on the Day of Judgement - which is the purpose of the Messiah: it's belief unto salvation which "covers" us (in His righteousness) on the Day we stand before God for the Judgment.

As a beside, God doesn't force you to believe anything... but you will answer to Him one day for your disbelief, in the face of such a flood of witnesses.

 

[Paradox.79]

We know about Christ and God from the testimony of the Bible.

If you don't believe that testimony, then all your able to believe is that billions of people believe Jesus of Nazareth is the awaited Messiah, in accordance with their faith, as well as believe that He is one aspect of the triune God, which consists of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

On your end, your stated belief (simply that others believe in Him and you believe He lived?) would not be salvific on the Day of Judgement - which is the purpose of the Messiah: it's belief unto salvation which "covers" us (in His righteousness) on the Day we stand before God for the Judgment.

As a beside, God doesn't force you to believe anything... but you will answer to Him one day for your disbelief, in the face of such a flood of witnesses.

Okay I believe the bible is a guide book that is party historical fact, part myth/and parable. The bible you read is edited about 300 bc the bible we read today was put together...it was edited, books were removed so were not reading the whole book. The new testament was written after the apostles were dead. As for the old testament....some of it holds up historical study...other parts don't. Geology, biology, astronomy has debunked some of it. Most of what the biblical people believed about the earth the sky the stars was wrong. The earth is not the center of the universe...it is not flat...evil spirts are not the cause of disease. If you tried some of the biblical remedy's given in the old testament for disease you would be arrested. Many of the old testament laws are ludacris, a god who is all knowing would not have made them. I believe in God because the universe is to complex to have came about by chance...and if you want be letteral about the bible...very so called Christians would be getting into heaven. Every pope going back generations turned a blind eye to pedophile priests, including Saint John Paul II, hate to break it to you they are not in heaven...most televangelist will not make it to heaven. Christianity overall has participated in mass genocide rape torture murder. Read your history books...atrocities that make Hitler look a saint. I do not respect Christianity I respect god. And I believe when we die we will be judged...not buy how worshiped but by how we lived our lives.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The only laws being ignored are the was concerning religious views. I am not talking about the ancient the world that lived in superstition, and you know this. YOU know what is funny we are one planet in one solar system out of 100 of millions in one galaxy surrounded by billions of galaxy's...which there own millions of solar systems and planets and stars...it is the height off arrogance to not consider that there other life in this universe with there own beliefs. And some how 2 billion Christians on a planet of 7 billion think there way is the only way. You know what I am not a Christian...I believe Christ and God...I do not believe the bible is anything more than a study book on how to have a relationship with god. I believe in evolution and the big and they both can be proven...religion is a matter of faith not fact. I do not have the right to force my views onto another but many christians and muslims believe they do

If you look at the 10 Commandments, every one of them is being ignored and broken right now
by what's suppose to be a civilized society.

But Christianity and Judaism aren't the only religions God has spoke through. Taoism, Hinduism and even Buddhism, God Spirit enters individuals and teaches them truths that otherwise they would not know.

However, only Christianity transcended into the cultures of the West and the United States. No other nation dared do with our founding Fathers did, in establishing a nation of freedom for each
individual. It was not perfect to start off with, but took time to evolve. Today, we have never had it so good and all we have to do is look at the world and it's history to know, it could be far worse.
However, what we have is not going to survive if we abandon our moral principles which were given to us by God.

I too believe there are other solar systems with intelligent life. However, the only life I have to
concern myself with is the one I have right in this moment. Am I living up to God's will ? I know
I have failed in the past and will probably do so again. However, love for God and neighbor will
be my creed until my death.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Okay I believe the bible is a guide book that is party historical fact, part myth/and parable. The bible you read is edited about 300 bc the bible we read today was put together...it was edited, books were removed so were not reading the whole book. The new testament was written after the apostles were dead. As for the old testament....some of it holds up historical study...other parts don't. Geology, biology, astronomy has debunked some of it. Most of what the biblical people believed about the earth the sky the stars was wrong. The earth is not the center of the universe...it is not flat...evil spirts are not the cause of disease. If you tried some of the biblical remedy's given in the old testament for disease you would be arrested. Many of the old testament laws are ludacris, a god who is all knowing would not have made them. I believe in God because the universe is to complex to have came about by chance...and if you want be letteral about the bible...very so called Christians would be getting into heaven. Every pope going back generations turned a blind eye to pedophile priests, including Saint John Paul II, hate to break it to you they are not in heaven...most televangelist will not make it to heaven. Christianity overall has participated in mass genocide rape torture murder. Read your history books...atrocities that make Hitler look a saint. I do not respect Christianity I respect god. And I believe when we die we will be judged...not buy how worshiped but by how we lived our lives.

Scholars believe that the book of Matthew was written by Matthew and probably around 35 AD.
The Gospel of John, was not written by John, but his teachings about Jesus was given to his disciples and St Ignatius and St Polycarp were two, who are considered responsible for auditing
John's gospel for accuracy. In the Old Testament, no books were left out, and the Dead Sea Scrolls confirm this. The New Testament, writings which did not have connection to the Apostles were not considered for the New Testament. The Epistles are a collection of writings by St Paul and the Church included them in the New Testament Canon.

You are correct that the Bible is partly historical, spiritual and mythical. It's a guide book for those
trying to live a spiritual life seeking union with God, but it's also how Judaism and Christianity came into being. Those two religions are responsible for the growth of the Western Cultures, no two ways about it.