Should alcohol be illegal?

[Dave-W]

for every practical purpose they're safe (shrooms/LSD).

Broken chromosomes and deadly hallucinations are "safe?"

Ever heard of a "bummer" or a "bad trip?"

5 True Bad Acid Trip Stories

 

[Rubiks]

If alcohol were to be made illegal, then we've created a vicious cycle

1. Propose common-sense gun control prohibition laws for safety
2. Repeal such laws by complaining about pointless incarceration and personal freedom

lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[holo]

Broken chromosomes and deadly hallucinations are "safe?"

Ever heard of a "bummer" or a "bad trip?"

5 True Bad Acid Trip Stories

Sure you can find anecdotes of anything going bad. This one guy was walking in the woods and a tree fell on him. But we need a broader perspective to say whether or not walking in the woods is good or bad for you. Which woods woods were they? Was he alone? What was the terrain like? Was he prepared? Could he tell a dead and unstable tree trunk from a healthy one? Did he have a map?

The "broken chromosomes" is a myth that's been dispelled. Flashbacks, as in supposed suddenly tripping long after the drugs are out of the system, are also a myth btw. (Flashbacks can be a thing for people with PTSD and such, though.)

I don't know what a "deadly hallucination" is. Maybe you're thinking of the urban myths of people thinking they can fly, or that one hippie who supposedly stared at the sun until he went blind? In any case, hallucinations are actually pretty rare on psychedelics, at least at normal dosages. But just like with any other drug, there will be the odd nincompoop who'll drink, snort or smoke anything without bothering to educate himself about what he's doing.

Bad trips, yes. I've had some of those myself. In retrospect, they were the ones that helped me the most. But it can be extremely frightening, that's why the psychedelic community, for lack of a better term, always stresses that one should bring along a sober friend when tripping, especially with high doses.

 

[Dave-W]

I know a thing or 2 about acid. Never did it myself but I knew people who did.

Flashbacks are real as I have seen people have them, even a couple of years after stopping the drug. And it was never the good trips, it was always the bummers.

And there were a few that seemed to regress to a degree of mental incompetence.

While I do think some clinical use could be made, using LSD or any of the other hallucinogens of my generation should never be done without medical supervision.

 

[holo]

I know a thing or 2 about acid. Never did it myself but I knew people who did.

Flashbacks are real as I have seen people have them, even a couple of years after stopping the drug. And it was never the good trips, it was always the bummers.

And there were a few that seemed to regress to a degree of mental incompetence.

While I do think some clinical use could be made, using LSD or any of the other hallucinogens of my generation should never be done without medical supervision.

Well they are increasingly being used in a clinical/medical setting. As for anecdotes, they're just that - anecdotes. I know several people (including myself) who've had their lives changed for the better by psychedelics. A friend of mine even became a Christian after tripping on shrooms. But I can't use that to conclude that psychedelics are safe or beneficial. For that we need research, and the research is pretty clear. Psychedelics are basically safe. Especiallywhen compared to other drugs like alcohol or medications like antidepressants. But again, people should obviously not take anything that's psychoactive without knowing what they're doing.

 

[keith99]

I already know that making alcohol illegal will create an underground black market for alcoholic beverages. That’s what happened during Prohibition. But still, doesn’t it make alcohol more difficult to get?

Actually not that much. When prohibition was repealed and alcohol regulated the availability in many ways went down, and seriously so. Bars closed at 2:00 in the morning where when speakeasys were illegal they stayed open 24 hours a day if enough customers came.

It would however make it far more likely that the alcohol available truly is poison and it will result in deaths and blindness.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Alcohol already is illegal for minors, and yet underage drinking is ubiquitous. Data (as well as anecdotical experience) has shown that the majority of college students in the United States where the legal drinking age is 21 and the traditional age for full-time college attendance is 18 to 22 still do drink. There's a satisfaction in being able to get away with something you're not allowed to do that dissipates when you're no longer prohibited from doing it. For this reason I think setting the age that high or barring alcohol for all adults is counterproductive. Over the summer I spent seven weeks in South Africa where the drinking age is currently 18 but there's a proposal to amend liquor laws to raise it to 21 and to ban the broadcasting of advertisements for alcohol on TV and radio from morning until 10 at night. The latter ban is the most feckless since it would just increase the amount of ads on social media. An economics-based consultancy firm conducted a study on the socioeconomic impact if the laws are passed, and noted that even though the legal drinking age may be raised, young people would still be able to buy alcohol where there is no community support for the prohibition of underage alcohol sales. It would have an impact comparable to Prohibition when speakeasies thrived. Shebeens (unlicensed venues selling alcohol) already are very popular there, and will become more so, not less, with a higher drinking age. They're already preferable because they're cheaper and have more potent stuff. The study showed that the stricter law would mainly be effective at keeping teens in school uniforms from frequenting shebeens. But of course they're not in uniform on weekends, and 18 to 20-year-olds who've already graduated from high school are no longer in school uniforms at all that vividly identify them as being underage. When I was studying at UCT the possibility of the law going into effect seemed to kick everyone into this drive to drink as much as possible, even though as university students it's still going to be easy to get alcohol even if it does. Students I befriended there said there was a remarkable increase in drinking this year than on campus last year.

My college has implemented various alcohol policies over the years, including imposing tangible sanctions such as having the campus police hand out minor-in-possession citations and contacting parents about their legal adult son or daughter illegally consuming alcohol. It didn't curb alcohol consumption or really even pump the brakes on it. In 2016 they controversially banned all hard alcohol. Even adults are not permitted to have it on campus. Their reasoning was that freshman and sophomore students tend to consume more hard liquor like shots that can lead to alcohol poisoning or severely impaired decision-making. The administration seemed to pat itself on the back that after the policy went into effect there were far fewer alcohol transports called to pick up students from frat parties. But then they realized that more students were simply drinking in their dorm rooms. They implemented a rule that students had to inform their RAs if they were going to be drinking in their rooms, and leave their door open so intervention could be more immediate if something went wrong. That was in essence making RAs hall monitors. And now they're compelling RAs to report students who engage in "high-risk behavior" which can encompass anything from drinking games to having a beer by yourself, with escalating consequences for each reported infraction. Obviously, everyone is keeping their mouths and doors shut now.

What has been more effective are sensible policies that are not punitive or infantilizing. All on-campus events are required to offer EANABs (Equally Attractive Non Alcoholic Beverages) like soda, La Croix, juice. People are encouraged to fix their own drinks, and most use the same cups. This lessens the peer pressure aspect. I've never been in a bar in the US but I'm assuming they all do have non-alcoholic drinks available. People can also bring non-alcoholic drinks to social events like house parties. Do bars provide info on the alcohol content of drinks like how some restaurants list calories, or are people just expected to already know it / find out the information for themselves? Learning about how much alcohol is actually in a drink and how to calculate your own BAC is useful, but I don't think it's commonly taught.

Sorry, I write long posts when I need diversions, hahahaha. It's finals week.

 

[durangodawood]

...Maybe you're thinking of the urban myths of people thinking they can fly,....

I remember tripping on mushrooms high in the mountains and thinking "what about this notion that people think they can fly while tripping?"

So I decided to test it and walked to the edge of this really really tall cliff, like maybe 400 feet vert plus thousands more down the to bottom of the valley below. Perfect spot to try some flying, right? My plan was: I'm going to walk to the very edge and look straight ahead just like I think I can fly. It was exhilarating as the valley opened up below just as I'm about to spread my wings! Then I stopped, of course. I mean, I didnt want to freaking die.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

It’s only 2:30 in the afternoon, and I’ve already had 3 drinks today despite vowing to myself to quit. I can’t stop and have a serious problem. I wish it were all illegal so I couldn’t buy any drinks in the first place.

Alcohol is not going to be become illegal again for adults your age in the United States, but perhaps you could find ways to use the existing laws to your advantage. The penalties for serving minors can be so steep and detrimental most establishments with an alcohol license are rigorous about carding to reduce their liability. They even card those who are obviously of drinking age, out of an abundance of caution. Are you still routinely carded when you buy alcohol or go to bars? I see your age is listed as 29, but a lot of signs at stores say they card anyone who appears to be under 35, or even 40, and I've seen bouncers at some places check the IDs of virtually everyone. If you are still carded, then a way you could create obstacles for yourself in buying alcohol is to leave your license (and passport if you have one) with someone trustworthy for a while. Or leave them in a safety deposit box if you don't feel comfortable entrusting someone. I realize this will then encumber you with driving, but if you're consuming that much alcohol habitually you really shouldn't be anyways. If you're pulled over after drinking, not having your license on you is probably going to be the lesser problem. The money you'll save by not buying alcohol could be used towards transportation costs like Uber or Lyft (if they're available in your area), busses, a bike.

Obviously you'd still have many ways of procuring alcohol, but maybe you'd have fewer options and more hassles to contend with than you do now. If you ask friends and family to help you with your goal of reducing how much you drink, maybe they can agree to not provide any to you.

 

[holo]

I remember tripping on mushrooms high in the mountains and thinking "what about this notion that people think they can fly while tripping?"

So I decided to test it and walked to the edge of this really really tall cliff, like maybe 400 feet vert plus thousands more down the to bottom of the valley below. Perfect spot to try some flying, right? My plan was: I'm going to walk to the very edge and look straight ahead just like I think I can fly. It was exhilarating as the valley opened up below just as I'm about to spread my wings! Then I stopped, of course. I mean, I didnt want to freaking die.

I think more often than not, a cliff will be a thousand times scarier to a person tripping than when he's sober. But it's certainly possible to get pretty crazy ideas on a trip, so I would advise against doing it near dangerous stuff, especially if you're alone. Climbing trees barefoot on shrooms, on the other hand, is something I can wholeheartedly recommend

Actually, going barefoot in general, even when you're not tripping, is so underrated.

 

[durangodawood]

I remember tripping on mushrooms high in the mountains and thinking "what about this notion that people think they can fly while tripping?"

So I decided to test it and walked to the edge of this really really tall cliff, like maybe 400 feet vert plus thousands more down the to bottom of the valley below. Perfect spot to try some flying, right? My plan was: I'm going to walk to the very edge and look straight ahead just like I think I can fly. It was exhilarating as the valley opened up below just as I'm about to spread my wings! Then I stopped, of course. I mean, I didnt want to freaking die.

Important note:

Just because I knew darn well that I couldnt fly doesnt mean youll know that too in a similar situation.

 

[stevenfrancis]

The Eucharist can be celebrated with juice in lieu of wine.

Actually....no it can't. (See definitions for Sacramental Wine in Canon Law and various other threads)
That being said, the entirety of the body blood soul and divinity of Jesus is present in both the bread and wine species, and one is not obliged to partake of both to complete communion. In fact, for most of modern history, only the priest took the wine, and the layity were given only the one species. In the Eastern church, the two are mixed, so it may be difficult to avoid in that circumstance of the Divine Liturgy. But.....I'm sure an EO or Eastern Catholic can let us know if they have an alternative for their layity. At the Divine Liturgies I have attended, intinction was used. But back to the main point......

Prohibition doesn't work. If one is an alcoholic, and doesn't have a spiritual change. (see AA, 12 steps etc.), they'll still drink. Heroin has been illegal my entire lifetime, and I think there are still plenty of addicts. Addiction is a personal spiritual problem, It is not a problem to be solved by law. We'd just have wall to wall prisons. The evils that come from over consumption are evils committed by the person, not the material. Alcohol is a good.

It is better that individuals with a difficulty abstain from it's use personally, than to impose an impossible law on the general public. Right?

Having said THAT, as a law abiding person, if prohibition returned, I would not drink alcohol as an obedient citizen. But that would be because of grace and virtue, and obedience. Not because of the law itself. I don't refrain from murder because it is illegal. I refrain from murder because it is morally repugnant, and wrong. I think we're all okay that it IS illegal. But that law is based on a commandment from God, and natural law. Restraint from alcohol is not a commandment from God or natural law. Only temperance.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

In this day and age of computer tech, or maybe soon, abstemious people could sign up to a prohibition personally and voluntarily, rather than "the puritans" banning alcohol once and for all people. In return they might get a small tax reduction, or medical insurance reduction, as the known relationship between drink and crime will have its toll on the public finances. The same could be done with tobacco products. Even today, tho, this would be expensive to police and difficult to implement. But still, an alternative to a blanket ban which forces one choice on all whether they like it or not?

China Social Credit: Big data meets Big Brother as China moves to rate its citizens | WIRED UK

 

[Hazelelponi]

A bunch of feminist social justice warriors.. same then as now.

No self control so all people should stop "x", regardless of what x is.

Well I have self control.

People need to teach that instead of making everything illegal. Raise children properly instead of encouraging broken homes and telling people nothing is their fault; teach people to control their own actions and take responsibility for those actions and society will change.

Your lack of self control is not society's problem... learn self control. Its an issue the Bible speaks to. Perhaps you should read it. No where does it say if something tempts you make it illegal.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Serious question: should alcohol be illegal? As someone who used to have a terrible—and indeed dangerous—alcoholism problem, I would say yes. I used to drink and drink and drink, and I would never stop. There would even be times when I would go on multi-day drinking binges and consume 20 drinks a day for three or four days until taking a break. I had a horrific problem with alcohol, as do so many people today, and it needs to be illegal.

The Prohibition days seemed like some sort of throw-back puritanical code from a bygone era. The truth, though, is that Prohibition advocates were right despite their unpopularity. Why? Well, just go to a Google news search and type in “drunk driver fatality,” and you will see an abundance of reports where a drunk driver killed a pedestrian or other driver because of his drinking. None of these accidents would have taken place had alcohol been illegal.

My anti-alcohol views do not stem from my religion. Even Jesus drank wine during the Last Supper. But it’s not like they had cars back then.

6

As someone who used to have a terrible—and indeed dangerous—alcoholism problem, I would say yes. I used to drink and drink and drink, and I would never stop.




There would even be times when I would go on multi-day drinking binges and consume 20 drinks a day for three or four days until taking a break. I had a horrific problem with alcohol, as do so many people today, and it needs to be illegal.

The Prohibition days seemed like some sort of throw-back puritanical code from a bygone era. The truth, though, is that Prohibition advocates were right despite their unpopularity. Why? Well, just go to a Google news search and type in “drunk driver fatality,” and you will see an abundance of reports where a drunk driver killed a pedestrian or other driver because of his drinking. None of these accidents would have taken place had alcohol been illegal.

My anti-alcohol views do not stem from my religion. Even Jesus drank wine during the Last Supper. But it’s not like they had cars back then.

Well we can tell because of the many stories in the Bible that God does not wish for alcohol to be illegal. Most people that drink do it normally. The bible states somewhere that a little wine is good for the stomach.

True for the ones that abuse it they should know that drunks don't go to heaven. Best for them to stop drinking.

M-Bob

 

[leyden]

should not be illegal. but we should educate people on the reasons of why not to drink it, if your a good role model many will listen to you, if your not you should work more on yourself before others

 

[andy b]

I come from a drinking culture in the north of England and it's a right of passage but if I'm honest the pubs are shutting down......it's an expensive night out and different working hours and shifts means a Friday night isn't the same especially if your in work the next day ......my brain says alcohol should be illegal as it's got me in some scrapes when younger but my heart says blow it lets get bladdered

 

[Mountainmanbob]

...my brain says alcohol should be illegal as it's got me in some scrapes when younger but my heart says blow it lets get bladdered

Alcohol got me in some trouble when I was young and right on up until 12 years ago when I sobered up.

I thought it was a good mixer as I often mixed it with other things that weren't that great for me. As my wife says moderation is the key. Something I have never been good at.

For me it's booze and booze all the Time I can't get enough to fill Mine.

Drowning my sorrows and weeping at Night hand me the bottle and make it Alright.

A normal drinker --
My wife pours her glass of wine each evening and the next morning when I'm washing dishes I usually end up pouring out a half of that glass.

I never drink like that!

M-Bob

 

[Sketcher]

It’s only 2:30 in the afternoon, and I’ve already had 3 drinks today despite vowing to myself to quit. I can’t stop and have a serious problem. I wish it were all illegal so I couldn’t buy any drinks in the first place.

Then you'd just get it the same way crackheads get their crack. This is not a problem that the government could solve for you by making alcohol illegal, so entertaining that fantasy does not help you. Get into a program that works for you. Do what it takes to get yourself in one.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Then you'd just get it the same way crackheads get their crack. This is not a problem that the government could solve for you by making alcohol illegal, so entertaining that fantasy does not help you. Get into a program that works for you. Do what it takes to get yourself in one.

That is so true.
Heroin is illegal but, if I wanted some I'd go get some tonight.

I also recommend a program there are many to choose from.

Mettings
Celebrate Recovery
Overcomers
AA
NA

Treatment facilities
City detox programs
30-day treatment centers and hospitals
Salvation Army treatment center

M-Bob