Should a Christian be socially liberal or not?

[OldFashionGal]

I marvel that dems or liberals support abortion or are pro-choice. My personal view is that one cannot be Christian and support abortion. It seems that Catholics are more often mentioned supporting abortion than any other large Christian organization.

I don't normally get into religious discussions but when discussing politics seems like there is times I do tell how I feel about it. My view is a lot of people are turned off by those that state they are a Christian because they don't see them showing Christianity. They only see people saying it. I am against abortion unless the life of the mother is at stake then for sure I won't be their judge in that case but just as wrong to me is how we treat others! Those that would take away benefits from Seniors and Veterans which can lead to the decline of their health. For someone to say they believe in life for the unborn would have to believe that for every human on this planet which would include getting medical help for all those that need it. No, you can't just go to the ER for every medical problem! They don't do cancer check ups there! They won't do surgery until it gets to be life or death when someone would have a much better chance of life if they were treated before it got to that point. So, my point is someone can not be a Christian if they would do harm to anyone! I do believe those that can work should but there is a lot of greed and selfishness in this world and as much as I am unsure of my beliefs I do believe if there is a God He would be totally against greed and selfishness!

I believe there is a lot wrong in both parties but too many people will defend their party no matter what wrong they do. If you believe in the Bible you believe in the story of the rich man? I wonder what would happen if God does exists if He would ask that today of the millionaires and billionaires? I am not against being wealthy but I am against greed and selfishness. I do find myself in the dilemma of trying to figure out which is more wrong so I can vote for the other one? Not the way it should be but I have come to the conclusion after being a Republican for all my life that I will no longer vote for a party that would cut benefits to seniors or veterans and that keeps on taking millions and billions from the most wealthy so they can repay them with special favors. No doubt if Jesus would stand in front of either party He would say for the one without sin to cast the first stone!

 

[warrior of Christ 94]

To paraphrase Mussolini: "[Christianity] sees in the world not only those superficial, material aspects in which man appears as an individual, standing by himself, self-centered, subject to natural law, which instinctively urges him toward a life of selfish momentary pleasure; it sees not only the individual but the nation and the country; individuals and generations bound together by a moral law, with common traditions and a mission which suppressing the instinct for life closed in a brief circle of pleasure, builds up a higher life, founded on duty, a life free from the limitations of time and space, in which the individual, by self-sacrifice, the renunciation of self-interest, by death itself, can achieve that purely spiritual existence in which his value as a man consists.
No action is exempt from moral judgment; no activity can be despoiled of the value which a moral purpose confers on all things. Therefore life, as conceived of by the [Christian], is serious, austere, and religious; all its manifestations are poised in a world sustained by moral forces and subject to spiritual responsibilities. The [Christian] disdains an “easy" life.
The [Christian] conception of life is a religious one, in which man is viewed in his immanent relation to a higher law, endowed with an objective will transcending the individual and raising him to conscious membership of a spiritual society."

Liberalism
and Christianity are at odds and cannot be reconciled. Liberalism leads deeper and deeper into a "nothing is taboo" form of moral relativism. Christianity on the other hand has moral absolutes.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

It is better if a Christian disconnects himself/herself from politics as none support any Christian values to their full effect and most "political christians" compromise their faith for politics. Next time you vote it is best to just ignore what party they support and what issues they personally support.

 

[mindlight]

By socially liberal I mean more freedom for people with less interference from the government.

When I bring this up to my Christian friends on Facebook they tell me that I am an unbiblical Christian who is pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, pro-prostitution, pro-legalization, pro-everything that is evil in the world, anti-police, anti-capitalist anti-anything that can stop wickedness advocate.

So my question is what is biblically unsound about a Christian politician holding a socially liberal position?

I do not see how a Christian can be a social liberal in the way you describe it.

Who guards the freedom of the unborn child?
How is it Christian to enshrine lies affirming gay relationships as "marriage" into law.

The balance between government and individual is not actually the real issue but rather the character of either.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The alternative is way nastier; forcing other people to follow your personal moral code. A liberal Christian is what a real Christian is. Jesus didn't say ''I command you to follow me", he said "if any of you wants to be a follower of me, you must turn from your selfishness, take up your own cross and follow".

But Jesus was forcing his moral code on the young man, if the man was to follow him. Jesus told his disciples that if they didn't do what he wanted "you have no part in me". That doesn't sound like liberal socialism to me.

 

[The Outlier]

The fact that America has freedom of religion makes it complicated for sure. Right/wrong and legal/illegal are two different things, and often have to be separated. How would you make lusting illegal, or hate illegal?- You can't and if they could be illegal, everyone would be in prison. Only certain actions can be illegal because of their negative effect on others. That is also somewhat up for debate. We cannot keep people from thinking freely or from having a religion that justifies what we consider to be wrong. Since its a republic we have freedom and since its a democracy we vote on what should be legal and illegal.

 

[D2wing]

By socially liberal I mean more freedom for people with less interference from the government.

When I bring this up to my Christian friends on Facebook they tell me that I am an unbiblical Christian who is pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, pro-prostitution, pro-legalization, pro-everything that is evil in the world, anti-police, anti-capitalist anti-anything that can stop wickedness advocate.

So my question is what is biblically unsound about a Christian politician holding a socially liberal position?

Because your idea of what is socially liberal is the opposite of what it is in reality. Social liberalism means the government enforces anti Christian views such as gay marriage. In states where it is legal, Christians are not allowed to have views that agree with the Bible.
If you think liberalism is Christianity you are wrong. Much of liberalism was found by Christians but it has been taken over for a political agenda and is being used as leverage to end religious freedom for Christians. Liberalism meant generosity and caring for the poor. Still practiced by real Christians. It did not mean lack of morals. That is a recent perversion. If you define a Christian as one who follows Jesus and the Bible than you can be non judgmental and loving but you cannot say that sexual sins are not sins. You are misled if you think we Christians are trying to control the heathens. They are trying and succeeding in controlling us. Remember that the laws in the Bible are all for the good of society as a whole and without them we will revert to the animal state, as readily evidenced throughout society. This is a subtle way of making you choose to go against the Bible by turning morality around.
This is called apostasy and the Church is already divided along the lines of who believes the social gospel and who reall

I don't normally get into religious discussions but when discussing politics seems like there is times I do tell how I feel about it. My view is a lot of people are turned off by those that state they are a Christian because they don't see them showing Christianity. They only see people saying it. I am against abortion unless the life of the mother is at stake then for sure I won't be their judge in that case but just as wrong to me is how we treat others! Those that would take away benefits from Seniors and Veterans which can lead to the decline of their health. For someone to say they believe in life for the unborn would have to believe that for every human on this planet which would include getting medical help for all those that need it. No, you can't just go to the ER for every medical problem! They don't do cancer check ups there! They won't do surgery until it gets to be life or death when someone would have a much better chance of life if they were treated before it got to that point. So, my point is someone can not be a Christian if they would do harm to anyone! I do believe those that can work should but there is a lot of greed and selfishness in this world and as much as I am unsure of my beliefs I do believe if there is a God He would be totally against greed and selfishness!

I believe there is a lot wrong in both parties but too many people will defend their party no matter what wrong they do. If you believe in the Bible you believe in the story of the rich man? I wonder what would happen if God does exists if He would ask that today of the millionaires and billionaires? I am not against being wealthy but I am against greed and selfishness. I do find myself in the dilemma of trying to figure out which is more wrong so I can vote for the other one? Not the way it should be but I have come to the conclusion after being a Republican for all my life that I will no longer vote for a party that would cut benefits to seniors or veterans and that keeps on taking millions and billions from the most wealthy so they can repay them with special favors. No doubt if Jesus would stand in front of either party He would say for the one without sin to cast the first stone!

to vote Democrat is to vote against God and Christianity. You would have to be very ignorant not to see this.I was a party official but quit when I became aware of the agenda. To end religious freedom. Not that the Republicans are all much better. But at least they don't force everyone to accept an anti Christian agenda. I am a veteran and the democrats have done nothing to help me. Obama has made it worse. Obama is the forerunner of anti Christ. You would know this if you studied the Bible and politics.

 

[D2wing]

What do you think is right? Do you think there is an absolute truth? Obama said he does not believe in truth and this is the stand of liberals in general.
On the other hand, if you believe in Jesus and claim to be a Christian you do not have that option. Jesus said he is the truth. There is no other. In other words Jesus is absolute truth.
That also means that the moral laws of the Bible are the truth. It is not ok to be immoral.
Our nation, contrary to what revisionists say was founded to be a Christian nation. George Washington in his farewell address said that if we ever depart from Christianity we are doomed.
I personally don't care much what heathens do. Unless they repent it doesn't matter.

 

[OldFashionGal]

Because your idea of what is socially liberal is the opposite of what it is in reality. Social liberalism means the government enforces anti Christian views such as gay marriage. In states where it is legal, Christians are not allowed to have views that agree with the Bible.
If you think liberalism is Christianity you are wrong. Much of liberalism was found by Christians but it has been taken over for a political agenda and is being used as leverage to end religious freedom for Christians. Liberalism meant generosity and caring for the poor. Still practiced by real Christians. It did not mean lack of morals. That is a recent perversion. If you define a Christian as one who follows Jesus and the Bible than you can be non judgmental and loving but you cannot say that sexual sins are not sins. You are misled if you think we Christians are trying to control the heathens. They are trying and succeeding in controlling us. Remember that the laws in the Bible are all for the good of society as a whole and without them we will revert to the animal state, as readily evidenced throughout society. This is a subtle way of making you choose to go against the Bible by turning morality around.
This is called apostasy and the Church is already divided along the lines of who believes the social gospel and who reall

to vote Democrat is to vote against God and Christianity. You would have to be very ignorant not to see this.I was a party official but quit when I became aware of the agenda. To end religious freedom. Not that the Republicans are all much better. But at least they don't force everyone to accept an anti Christian agenda. I am a veteran and the democrats have done nothing to help me. Obama has made it worse. Obama is the forerunner of anti Christ. You would know this if you studied the Bible and politics.

I would be very careful to not imply any of God's children are very ignorant not to see your point of view! For every scripture you would quote to back your opinion there is lots that back mine when it comes to taking care of the least of these! For sure there is much wrong in both parties and for sure God does NOT force anyone to live for him! My husband is a Veteran, too, and very much a Christian, and he is also changing from the Republican party. No one is forcing us to accept anti Christian agenda. There is men of God (pastors, preachers) that disagree on what some Bible Scriptures mean and in the end only God can judge those that are right and those that are wrong but I do know what the Bible says about whatsoever you do to the LEAST of these! And to vote for politicians that are for policies that hurt others in my OPINION is the same thing as hurting the least of these!

 

[D2wing]

You did not understand what I said, the DNC party platform has been anti Chritian for a LNG time and any Democratic candidate must sign on to it to receive a party endorsement and funds. You may not be aware of it because you were not a party official like I was.
Also there are many best seller good books and movies about the end times that will give you an idea of what is happening and how the liberal policies are working toward a one world government with no opposition. Several very rich people head up several organizations working toward this, George Soros the best known who is also Obama's Long time employer.
Like the Communists they are, they only pretend to help the poor to buy power/votes. Once they get enough power they will disregard the Constitution to achieve their aims. This is already happening.
I am a Combat vet and fought for you to say the things you do. Vote how you like. But if you are a true Christian you have an obligation to seek the truth and God's will. I don't think helping anti Christ is it. Even if you stand to gain from it. Which you aren't. The VA is getting worse all the time, the benefits I get are eroding due to the deliberate inflationary policies of Obama. No you don't understand what is going on and voting Democrat is I wrong in many ways for a Christian if you believe the Bible and that Jesus is the truth.
Broad is the path to destruction. Greed and ignorance will get you there.
Welfare programs are designed to make us a third world country and it is working. Since Lyndon Johnson's great society scam, and every social program after, we have fallen in every area of civilization.​

 

[bhsmte]

By socially liberal I mean more freedom for people with less interference from the government.

When I bring this up to my Christian friends on Facebook they tell me that I am an unbiblical Christian who is pro-gay marriage, pro-abortion, pro-prostitution, pro-legalization, pro-everything that is evil in the world, anti-police, anti-capitalist anti-anything that can stop wickedness advocate.

So my question is what is biblically unsound about a Christian politician holding a socially liberal position?

I guess that would depend on how each person interprets the bible.

By the way, which interferences from the government are you referring to?

 

[mindlight]

I would be very careful to not imply any of God's children are very ignorant not to see your point of view! For every scripture you would quote to back your opinion there is lots that back mine when it comes to taking care of the least of these! For sure there is much wrong in both parties and for sure God does NOT force anyone to live for him! My husband is a Veteran, too, and very much a Christian, and he is also changing from the Republican party. No one is forcing us to accept anti Christian agenda. There is men of God (pastors, preachers) that disagree on what some Bible Scriptures mean and in the end only God can judge those that are right and those that are wrong but I do know what the Bible says about whatsoever you do to the LEAST of these! And to vote for politicians that are for policies that hurt others in my OPINION is the same thing as hurting the least of these!

But abortion targets the least of these!

The Democrat policies to help the poor and vulnerable are neither sustainable nor that effective. Health cost inflation, lack of social mobility and the massive increase in the debt ( which will be paid for by the least of these not you) are all signs that the Democrats for all their rhetoric are not the party to help the least of these.

 

[OldFashionGal]

You did not understand what I said, the DNC party platform has been anti Chritian for a LNG time and any Democratic candidate must sign on to it to receive a party endorsement and funds. You may not be aware of it because you were not a party official like I was.
Also there are many best seller good books and movies about the end times that will give you an idea of what is happening and how the liberal policies are working toward a one world government with no opposition. Several very rich people head up several organizations working toward this, George Soros the best known who is also Obama's Long time employer.
Like the Communists they are, they only pretend to help the poor to buy power/votes. Once they get enough power they will disregard the Constitution to achieve their aims. This is already happening.
I am a Combat vet and fought for you to say the things you do. Vote how you like. But if you are a true Christian you have an obligation to seek the truth and God's will. I don't think helping anti Christ is it. Even if you stand to gain from it. Which you aren't. The VA is getting worse all the time, the benefits I get are eroding due to the deliberate inflationary policies of Obama. No you don't understand what is going on and voting Democrat is I wrong in many ways for a Christian if you believe the Bible and that Jesus is the truth.
Broad is the path to destruction. Greed and ignorance will get you there.
Welfare programs are designed to make us a third world country and it is working. Since Lyndon Johnson's great society scam, and every social program after, we have fallen in every area of civilization.​

Do you think you are anymore important in the eyes of God than my husband who also served this country, too, or any other person? It is a question and not a accusation! To believe the Bible one must believe all of it and IMPLYING others are not Christians if they don't believe things the way you do, or if they don't do as you say do is not your place to judge them! To see the sins within one party but ok to vote for another party while being blind to the sins within that party is a problem that seems to exist among a lot that are Christians. To believe The Bible one must believe all the truths in it including those without sin casting the first stone, including knowing selfishness, greed, hatred, love, kindness, compassion, hypocrites, are in BOTH parties and if you are going to imply one is not a Christian to vote for someone in one party then it is equally wrong even if for different reasons to vote for the other party. If God is real, if the Bible is true than ALL of it is true and having personally know those that are among some of the most intelligent people in this world, among the most religious people in this world, having seen some of them flip flop on their interpretation of the Scriptures lets me know if I don't see love, compassion, kindness, towards all people FIRST in their life then their words will not have the same effect to me. It is no wonder that so many can't see God in those that profess to know Him. Yes, greed will get you there just the same as ignorance and that is in both parties. Most in both parties accept super pac money and end up owing special favors but yet it SEEMS you don't see the greed in that or you would not be either a Democrat or a Republican. My husband a Republican for OVER 40 years leaving the Republican party and just as much a Christian as anyone else is would not judge others the way you are even knowing there is even more things wrong within both parties that even gets mentioned here on this board because everyone only sees within their own eyes what is right and what is wrong.

 

[OldFashionGal]

But abortion targets the least of these!

The Democrat policies to help the poor and vulnerable are neither sustainable nor that effective. Health cost inflation, lack of social mobility and the massive increase in the debt ( which will be paid for by the least of these not you) are all signs that the Democrats for all their rhetoric are not the party to help the least of these.

I knew it would be brought up about abortion when I wrote what I did and yes I do believe except for when the life of the mother is in danger that abortion is wrong BUT no one can force me or anyone else get a abortion. But politicians are trying to force policies that would hurt the least of these, seniors, veterans, the middle class, etc. And as I have written there is wrong in both parties and there are Dems that would hurt the least of these as well as there are Republicans that would, too! I am not so blind as to see only the wrongs within one party without seeing them in the other party, too! I want babies and seniors BOTH to live and get the care they should!! I love one just as much as the other.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I guess that would depend on how each person interprets the bible.

By the way, which interferences from the government are you referring to?

Some discernment at last. I note it comes from an atheist in the midst of blindness by my fellow Christians. Perhaps the different perspective gives one some objectivity in terms of the subject matter being discussed. Christian Social Liberals seem to be clueless on this one thing and continue to have this huge blind spot in their perception of reality. While they see the mote of socially conservative preferred government interferences, they do not see the beam of socially liberal ones. They can somehow simply ignore the fact that they are much more committed to government interferences into people's lives based upon their religious beliefs than fundamentalists are. For some reason and by some form of denial that is beyond reason they are able to specifically refrain from seeing that the whole welfare state idea started and is promulgated as an attempt at theocracy by socially liberal Christians. They want to codify into law their strictly religious beliefs about loving one's neighbor by caring for their physical needs, even when caring for their physical needs is against the will of that neighbor( Prohibition was a prime example of this ) . Funnily enough, some often decline to personally act in any charitable way toward the neighbors they actually encounter but want credit for being loving toward neighbor by forcing others, even others that do not share their religion or belief system, to do so, giving no consideration whatever for those others that may not want to be told to obey the tenets of the Christian religion by the government. The argument that only codifying religious beliefs dealing with sexual morality are interferences and that codifying religious beliefs about economic justice are not interferences is a specious one. Those that reject our Christian religious beliefs as a basis for making law may well decide to reject any of them they choose not just the ones that socially liberal Christians give them permission to reject.

 

[Armoured]

Pretty sure Jesus would be considered "socially liberal"

 

[Armoured]

If you are not against somthing by default you are for it.

Nonsense. I can think of any number of things I am not "against" but certainly not "for". The reverse is true, too. *sigh* Americans and their dichotomous world view.

 

[bhsmte]

Nonsense. I can think of any number of things I am not "against" but certainly not "for". The reverse is true, too. *sigh* Americans and their dichotomous world view.

I agree.

If you are not against something, you are for it, is for too simplistic.

 

[OldFashionGal]

Something really seems to be missing when so many SEEM to force their views on others. Before anyone is going to LIVE like a Christian they have to become one FIRST. I think a lot of people want to skip that step and have everyone act and live like Christians before they become one.

It's the reason why I never liked getting into religious debates. To many religious people have different religious views and it will ONLY be in the end when anyone can know 100 percent who is right and who is wrong.

Sure, I will tell my views on political matters but to get into debates that is the part I rather stay out of for the reasons I already stated. But once in awhile my human nature will jump in LOL and then wish I hadn't.

When I was a child and my step family wanted me home to do chores instead of going to church and when they did let me go to church I always had to have someone else take me and when I would kneel down at 8 years old in the church parking lot talking to God and many years following that so NO one will imply to me that I am ignorant or anything else. I do know in recent years my faith in God has wavered and made me have many doubts but NOT in any one particular belief!! If there is a God then the beliefs I have in the Bible on what they mean has NOT changed.

I care about all people the young, the old, the middle class, the unborn and I do know in most cases if not all cases the LOVE of God has to be the FIRST thing anyone else sees in someone before they are going to believe in Christianity! Let preachers and teachers teach the word of God while Christians show the love of God and by living a Godly life. That says more to a lot of others than anything else would.

It has been stated that Jesus is the truth but many powerful very intelligent men of God disagree on what that truth is when it comes to Biblical interpretations. I have known men of God that could quote A LOT OF the Bible without looking at it that were also very spiritual very used of God but would disagree on what some scriptures mean so I would be careful to not be a stumbling block to others by being so sure one religious person is right while the other is wrong. Hurting the least of these, being a stumbling block, being selfish and greedy is just as much something God would not like as anything else. To believe the way some do in my opinion it is would be very hypocritical to vote for either party as it would appear they are only against some sins and not others OR just against it when one party politician does it while it's ok if the other party politician does the same thing. There sure is a lot of that going around.

I put this up because of some responses to me but now I will let others continue the debate

 

[grasping the after wind]

Pretty sure Jesus would be considered "socially liberal"

I don't see it at all. Apolitical is closer my take on him. But go ahead and make a case for social liberal if you think you can. Explain how someone could be a social liberal that never once mentions wanting secular government to be involved with social justice, tells people that even thinking lustful thoughts is sinful, speaks of individual responsibility and not collective guilt and doesn't seem too interested in reforming the current world to make it more pleasurable to live in but instead promises to completely junk the whole thing altogether, set up a new one and advises you to concentrate upon that world instead of this one?