Shadow of the mark

[robycop3]

Show me from history that Jonah happened or that exodus happened or half of stories in the OT or that Jesus multiplied fish and bread. You will not find it in your encyclopedias as history.

Not everything is recorded in secular sources in the same way you as a Christian would like. Most of things we accept by faith, having just some evidence, but no proofs.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


While the words "must happen soon" cannot be metaphorical, all you complain about is based on interpretations of metaphors, which can be various.

Soon must mean soon, there is no symbolism in it. While for example the lake of fire or the abomination of desolation can have many meanings.


I will look at it.

 

[robycop3]

Show me from history that Jonah happened or that exodus happened or half of stories in the OT or that Jesus multiplied fish and bread. You will not find it in your encyclopedias as history.

Not everything is recorded in secular sources in the same way you as a Christian would like. Most of things we accept by faith, having just some evidence, but no proofs.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The events with Jonah weren't worldwide; it involved only one man.

And want historical/archaeological evidence of the Exodus? Read a 2013 article, "Evidence Of The Exodus" by Miles R. Jones, Ph.D. And, just Google "historical evidence for the exodus of israel from egypt".

The events prophesied as eschatological events are much-larger, & would be heavily documented, such as would be the death of all life in the Mediterranean. If such an event had already happened, it'd be very-well-documented, as many nations, such as Italy, Greece, etc. depend upon the fish caught in that sea. Same for an earthquake powerful enough to split Jerusalem into 3 sections. The damage would not at all be confined to Jerusalem.[/I]

While the words "must happen soon" cannot be metaphorical, all you complain about is based on interpretations of metaphors, which can be various.

Soon must mean soon, there is no symbolism in it. While for example the lake of fire or the abomination of desolation can have many meanings.

OK, then, simply show us the occurrence of those events in history. Please tell us all about the mark of the beast, what it looked like, who issued it when, etc.

I will look at it.

GOOD !

 

[robycop3]

@robycop3

Mt of Olives splitting in half - a prophetical metaphor.

On the other hand, there is a Roman road in the midst of it, which may be some partial, physical fullfilment of the metaphor, because it was used for escaping from Jerusalem, as the prophecy said.

That's not what the Scripture says. There's not one hint that it's a metaphor.

Zechariah 14:4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

Geologists have found a fault line beneath the MOO's surface, runnubf east & west. It's awaiting "the foot".

 

[robycop3]

Could you answer the question? How does Jesus specifically say how to escape the tribulation? He certainly didn’t say to get raptured.

He doesn't.

 

[robycop3]

So they are the ones with special knowledge.

How do you know that they can be trusted?

Because the events haven't happened yet.

 

[Timtofly]

So where exactly did He say this?

Luke 21:27-28

 

[Timtofly]

Well, based on our interactions, and the comments you’ve made about what I’ve posted, I’m sure it’s not the fault of the preterists.

It would be the fault of this forum, not letting them express themselves. Obviously one cannot even fully refute what cannot be expressed.

 

[Hammster]

It would be the fault of this forum, not letting them express themselves. Obviously one cannot even fully refute what cannot be expressed.

You seem to misunderstand most of my posts, and posts of other preterists. That’s not the fault of the forum.

 

[Hammster]

He doesn't.

“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
— Luke 21:20-22

 

[Hammster]

Because the events haven't happened yet.

They can be trusted sources because the events haven’t occurred yet?

 

[Hammster]

Luke 21:27-28

There is nothing in those verses about escaping the tribulation.

 

[trophy33]

That's not what the Scripture says. There's not one hint that it's a metaphor.

Zechariah 14:4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

Geologists have found a fault line beneath the MOO's surface, runnubf east & west. It's awaiting "the foot".

The hint its a metaphor is the simple fact that its a prophecy. Biblical prophecies are almost exclusively in metaphors.

If you read it literally, on which half of the Mount of Olives will Jesus stand? Or will he have one foot on each half?

 

[trophy33]

The events with Jonah weren't worldwide; it involved only one man.

And want historical/archaeological evidence of the Exodus? Read a 2013 article, "Evidence Of The Exodus" by Miles R. Jones, Ph.D. And, just Google "historical evidence for the exodus of israel from egypt".

Googling is not a good study, because you can google any results you want.

Secular historians (at least mainstream) do not accept the biblical account of Exodus.

"Mainstream scholarship no longer accepts the biblical Exodus account as history for a number of reasons."
The Exodus - Wikipedia

The events prophesied as eschatological events are much-larger, & would be heavily documented, such as would be the death of all life in the Mediterranean. If such an event had already happened, it'd be very-well-documented, as many nations, such as Italy, Greece, etc. depend upon the fish caught in that sea. Same for an earthquake powerful enough to split Jerusalem into 3 sections. The damage would not at all be confined to Jerusalem.[/I]

Again, you simply depend on your literal interpretation. Its good to realize its just your interpretation and that it does not have to be in such way.

You must prove it must be literal and global, first. Instead of supposing that everybody must accept your view and interpretation.

OK, then, simply show us the occurrence of those events in history. Please tell us all about the mark of the beast, what it looked like, who issued it when, etc.

I am not a Revelation interpreter. Greater names than me failed miserably in that.

I personally think that hand represents acts and head represents thinking and the mark of the beast was the supposed deity and worshipping of Roman Caesars, namely Nero. Just my opinion, its possible it was something else.

 

[Timtofly]

There is nothing in those verses about escaping the tribulation.

Of course there is. You asked:

So your premise is that this is all of creation (whole world). How does Jesus tell you to escape this?

I answered.

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

You are to look up when they begin to happen, not after they already happened.

The only sign is the sign of Jesus in the air. That is the beginning of what needs to be escaped. There is nothing to escape before that.

Jesus even has to split the mount of Olives to make a way to escape. How can His feet do that if they are resting in Paradise?

Would you prefer to be raptured at the Second Coming, or in Jerusalem running between the two halves of the Mount of Olives like those in Jerusalem will do on that day?

 

[robycop3]

“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
— Luke 21:20-22

That wasn't the trib. Jesus plainly said those were the days of vengeance, when all that'd been written against the Jews UP TIL THAT TIME was fulfilled.

 

[robycop3]

They can be trusted sources because the events haven’t occurred yet?

Sure. They mention those events, as well as other events that HAVE occurred, such as the estruction of Sodom & Gomorrah, & the finding of the remains of Gomorrah from an ancient Egyptian merchant's map. (And the foundation stones found showed evidence of being burnt with sulfur.) And also, many secular events as well, including events within the Roman empire, & the sources for their intel. And NOT ONE of them says the eschatological events have already occurred, & neither does Scripture, of course.

 

[robycop3]

The hint its a metaphor is the simple fact that its a prophecy. Biblical prophecies are almost exclusively in metaphors.

If you read it literally, on which half of the Mount of Olives will Jesus stand? Or will he have one foot on each half?

Zech didn't say.

 

[Hammster]

Of course there is. You asked:


I answered.



You are to look up when they begin to happen, not after they already happened.

The only sign is the sign of Jesus in the air. That is the beginning of what needs to be escaped. There is nothing to escape before that.

Jesus even has to split the mount of Olives to make a way to escape. How can His feet do that if they are resting in Paradise?

Would you prefer to be raptured at the Second Coming, or in Jerusalem running between the two halves of the Mount of Olives like those in Jerusalem will do on that day?

Since there is no rapture, the question is moot.

 

[Hammster]

That wasn't the trib. Jesus plainly said those were the days of vengeance, when all that'd been written against the Jews UP TIL THAT TIME was fulfilled.

Should I quote the parallel from Matthew 24?

 

[Hammster]

Sure. They mention those events, as well as other events that HAVE occurred, such as the estruction of Sodom & Gomorrah, & the finding of the remains of Gomorrah from an ancient Egyptian merchant's map. (And the foundation stones found showed evidence of being burnt with sulfur.) And also, many secular events as well, including events within the Roman empire, & the sources for their intel. And NOT ONE of them says the eschatological events have already occurred, & neither does Scripture, of course.

I think you’ve gotten off track. I’m still asking about how you know that microchips are the Mark of the Beast™.