"SEX" vs Romance & Spirit Led Intimacy

[seeking Christ]

There is no consensus on what the correct "understanding" is.

There is GREAT consensus. Certainly not every minute detail no, that is not the purpose of Scripture. Where the consensus lies, is what our OP is addressing. And since this is some 3,500 years later, maybe now is a good time for an update?

"Fruitful" in what way? What are you assuming I lack in my life?

I have assumed nothing, but specifically mentioned understanding. Perhaps a study of SOS itself and a dialog on that would be more fruitful for your understanding as compared to this thread?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

There is GREAT consensus.

So a priest and a Rabbi both interpret it the same way?

I have assumed nothing, but specifically mentioned understanding. Perhaps a study of SOS itself and a dialog on that would be more fruitful for your understanding as compared to this thread?

What understanding do you think I lack, and how do you believe it would be relevant to my life?

 

[seeking Christ]

So a priest and a Rabbi both interpret it the same way?

Largely, yes. Obviously Jews don't believe Jesus is Christ.

What understanding do you think I lack, and how do you believe it would be relevant to my life?

I have no idea if you have any comprehension of God's intent to have sex depict His own Love for His bride the Church, or not. I have no idea if this has any place in your life now, or not. Just because you don't seem to grasp what the OP is saying, or even if you failed to get meaning out of SOS, would not be a valid indicator of your own spiritual development or lack thereof in this regard.

Language can at times be useful, but is not the point here.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Largely, yes.

I think you'd be surprised.

Just because you don't seem to grasp what the OP is saying, or even if you failed to get meaning out of SOS, would not be a valid indicator of your own spiritual development or lack thereof in this regard.

On what are you basing your assertion that I don't grasp what the OP is saying?

Language can at times be useful, but is not the point here.

The only point I have commented on was specifically about language.

 

[seeking Christ]

I think you'd be surprised.

Think what you like, but I'm familiar with both Jewish and Christian teaching.

On what are you basing your assertion that I don't grasp what the OP is saying?

Your questions and comments.

 

[mandelduke]

Sex is not a dirty thing; it makes the world go round. My sex live is so good, I think I could have been a inappropriate content star. However, that would be taking it too far.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Think what you like, but I'm familiar with both Jewish and Christian teaching.

Love is as Strong as Death: Interpreting the Song of Solomon | It Is Written

The medieval Jewish scholar Saadia compared the Song of Solomon to a lock for which “the keys have been lost.” Most modern commentators agree with his assessment. “The Song is the most obscure book of the Old Testament,” according to Franz Delitzsch. G. Lloyd Carr says, “The whole question of its overall interpretation is unparalleled in the Old Testament.” Dennis F. Kinlaw writes, “No book in Scripture has had such varied treatment. The options are so broad that some have despaired."

Your questions and comments.

Specifically?

 

[apache1]

I don't give a tinker's damn the gender of the physician or nurse or physician's assistant or nurse practitioner or paramedic or dogcatcher or whoever if they save my life if I'm having a heart attack. To his holiness Forcedelun who doesn't want a female examining him. As you know, lots of gay people in the general population now and out of the closet (and more still in the closet) . If you had to have a "digital exam" to try to detect colon cancer or polyps down there, would you rather have a hot looking female urologist or nurse "using the rubber glove" or a very flagrantly gay man doing it. Actually, as long as no sexual harrassment, don't really give a damn who does it, but for myself, I would rather get "digitally dealt with" by a good looking young female M.D or D.O. or nurse or other heatlh professional than Charles Nelson Riley, M.D. or Pee Wee Herman, D.O., but hell, if they save my life, then so be it!

 

[seeking Christ]

Love is as Strong as Death: Interpreting the Song of Solomon | It Is Written

How bout you quote some Jews that aren't under Nietzsche's influence?

Specifically?

Specifically being absorbed in semantics rather than tackling the point.

 

[flicka]

If there isn't already one there needs to be a term to describe those folks who are Obsessed with the idea of "purity", sexual or otherwise. Religiosity can really become a problem for some. I mean, there is more overly analyzed and detailed ideas in this thread about sex than a sex manual.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

How bout you quote some Jews that aren't under Nietzsche's influence?

I quoted a pastor who is a professor of Old Testament Studies and who has a PhD in Old Testament interpretation who, in order to illustrate the point that there is no consensus of interpretation of the Song Of Solomon, quoted a Medieval Jewish scholar, a Jewish professor of theology, a Christian professor of theology, and a Christian professor of Old Testament Languages. You'll forgive me if I put more stock in this knowledgeable and referenced essay than I do in your unsupported assertions and smiley faces.

Specifically being absorbed in semantics rather than tackling the point.

I wouldn't assume that my not finding any of the content to be relevant to my life is because I don't understand it.

 

[Chajara]

I can't even figure out exactly what's being argued in this thread. Is he suggesting that having sex ed, talking about sex or even having it before marriage, and basically not treating it as some big thing means you can't connect with your partner?

Because hoo boy, that's wrong. Putting sex on some giant ivory pedestal is what makes it weird and disconnected. It shouldn't be something you have to put effort into. Making it into a big thing just means when it doesn't go perfectly, you start to stress about it. Stress can drive wedges. Big ones. What you're advocating is borderline idolatry, if you ask me.

When you're in the throes and your partner leans his or her forehead against yours and whispers "I love you" and you're so overwhelmed by it all that you can barely handle it... that doesn't come about due to effort, or abstaining from calling it the wrong thing, or avoiding inappropriate content or lust for other people or whatever. It just happens. It's effortless.

And it happens to those of us who aren't even remotely in line with what you're saying, OP. I should know.

 

[jminnesota]

to me sex is beautiful my wife and i have a wonderful sex life and for us when we make love its pure romance/intamcy, love it always feels wonderful. we waited til we married to have sex. we have friends who have not waited so we feel its up to how you feel about wait or not wait etc. and all that. i feel god loves you who you are and god made sex to be beautiful

 

[seeking Christ]

I quoted a pastor who is a professor of Old Testament Studies and who has a PhD in Old Testament interpretation who, in order to illustrate the point that there is no consensus of interpretation of the Song Of Solomon, quoted

You're deliberately failing to see the point. You cannot claim no one can glean any meaning from SOS, and you're going to outlandish lengths to make that very case. It's silly.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

You're deliberately failing to see the point. You cannot claim no one can glean any meaning from SOS, and you're going to outlandish lengths to make that very case. It's silly.

I didn't claim no one can glean any meaning from the Song of Solomon. My claim was:

There is no consensus on what the correct "understanding" is.

 

[seeking Christ]

I quoted a pastor who is a professor of Old Testament Studies and who has a PhD in Old Testament interpretation who, in order to illustrate the point that there is no consensus of interpretation of the Song Of Solomon, quoted a Medieval Jewish scholar, a Jewish professor of theology, a Christian professor of theology, and a Christian professor of Old Testament Languages. You'll forgive me if I put more stock in this knowledgeable and referenced essay than I do in your unsupported assertions and smiley faces.

Perhaps you would care to read your own article then? Contrary to your claim, it says:

"traditionally viewed the book as a portrait of Yahweh’s love for Israel (Jewish) or Christ’s love for the Church (Christian)"

and

"Until modern times the allegorical interpretation of Song of Solomon has prevailed both in the synagogue and also in the church"

So your claims are baseless. The confusion has only come about recently. Plus, if you knew anything about Jewish understanding of their own Scriptures, you would realize that they say any given passage has "70 layers of meaning." Your article claims 8 different understandings of SOS. This is completely no big deal.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Perhaps you would care to read your own article then? Contrary to your claim, it says:

"traditionally viewed the book as a portrait of Yahweh’s love for Israel (Jewish) or Christ’s love for the Church (Christian)"

and

"Until modern times the allegorical interpretation of Song of Solomon has prevailed both in the synagogue and also in the church"

So your claims are baseless. The confusion has only come about recently.

Okay, firstly quote-mining doesn't lend you any credibility. And, secondly, if you are really going to make the argument that the allegorical interpretation is the right one and that the others are a "confusion", then you're arguing that the Song of Solomon isn't about the love between a man and a woman, or about sex at all, which would make it irrelevant to this thread.

What's more, that's ignoring the fact that the allegorical interpretation isn't one interpretation, but a set of interpretations. There are still different schools of thought as to what it is an allegory of.

Plus, if you knew anything about Jewish understanding of their own Scriptures, you would realize that they say any given passage has "70 layers of meaning." Your article claims 8 different understandings of SOS. This is completely no big deal.

I didn't say it was a big deal I said:

There is no consensus on what the correct "understanding" is.

 

[seeking Christ]

if you are really going to make the argument that the allegorical interpretation is the right one and that the others are a "confusion", then you're arguing that the Song of Solomon isn't about the love between a man and a woman, or about sex at all

HAHAHAHA no

What's more, that's ignoring the fact that the allegorical interpretation isn't one interpretation, but a set of interpretations. There are still different schools of thought as to what it is an allegory of.

How is this news? Why is this a problem? You haven't a leg to stand on, and are grasping at straws to pretend there is no meaning. Typical atheist nonsense.

 

[jminnesota]

while me and my wife waited til we married. i have no issue with people who have sex before they marry etc. i feel god loves you the same. he made you who you are after all of course.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

HAHAHAHA no

No what? Did I misrepresent your argument? If so, please clarify how. Do you believe my argument is faulty? If so, please explain how.

How is this news? Why is this a problem? You haven't a leg to stand on, and are grasping at straws to pretend there is no meaning. Typical atheist nonsense.

I didn't say it was news. It was your assertion that there was a consensus as to the meaning of the Song of Solomon. You then quote-mined the part of the essay about the allegorical interpretation in order to support your assertion. I have pointed out that, in fact, it supports my assertion that there is no consensus of meaning, given that the allegorical interpretation isn't the one meaning that it would need to be in order to support your assertion but, rather, is a set consisting of different meanings.

If you disagree, then please explain your reasoning.