"SEX" vs Romance & Spirit Led Intimacy

[forcedelune]

This analogy falls flat unless you also contend that musical instruments should not be referred to directly but rather spoken of using euphemisms and people should not have any instruction in their use prior to picking them up.

No, you're right. I meant to add to that last comment that the musical example was not a perfect comparison and wasn't really meant to be an analogy. I did say that learning about medical terms is not a problem either.

The point is, when performing, you are not mentally focused on the anatomical specifics of the physical...you are focused on the music. The body flows with the leading of the heart and soul. If a musician was staring down at his guitar the whole time he was playing it...he probably wouldn't even play the music as well if he was consciously thinking about strings and wood and picks and music notes.

Most people have to learn to play music, but no one realistically needs to be taught how to perform the physical part of intimacy. Again, not a perfect example...but it makes the point sufficiently, I think. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on the miniscule details of what are perceived to be my analogies...they are just meant to help us relate.

 

[IanCG]

Musicians who are legendary with their instrument are regarded that way because they know their instrument so well it has become an extension of themselves. They only get that way through intense dedication, training, and knowledge of the instrument.

 

[forcedelune]

Age of consent laws as a sign of the end, that's a new one.

Actually, it's quite old...written thousands of years ago. We are doing exactly what Paul said we would...we are forbidding (by law) those to marry who had that very right to marry in Paul's day (in Jewish, Christian, and secular laws). We are the only generation to dare to do such a thing on such a wide scale, just as Paul predicted, and we are eating the rotten fruit from following the World in doing so.

That's really what I'm getting at there.

 

[forcedelune]

You mistake me. I'm not talking about that thread. I'm talking about your outlook on sex in general.

My apologies for that assumption then. So, can you please backup your statement of exactly what I said that reflects an "unhealthy sexual outlooks"? That really is the purpose here, to discuss topics, so it would be good if you would clarify and then we can discuss such an accusation based on those merits.

 

[Desk trauma]

Actually, it's quite old...written thousands of years ago. We are doing exactly what Paul said we would...we are forbidding (by law) those to marry who had that very right to marry in Paul's day (in Jewish, Christian, and secular laws). We are the only generation to dare to do such a thing on such a wide scale, just as Paul predicted, and we are eating the rotten fruit from following the World in doing so.

That's really what I'm getting at there.

Here I thought you were talking about enforcing ignorance of sex and going back to only being able to allude to it by way of euphemisms, your attachment to bronze age sexual codes is a great deal deeper then that it would appear.

 

[IanCG]

You have 83 posts. Pick one.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Well from what I read I really like what your talking about. Its pretty much what I tell people, but you explain it better. So many think of sex just as a thing you do then its over. It has no meaning to them other then "Lets do it because its pleasurable!". The way God designed it was MORE deep then people realize. As you said its like tasting a bit of pleasure in heaven.

Me and my fiance avoid talk of sex really because we want to stay pure. But we agree its more then some pleasurable thing. Some couples we know don't understand though and think we are crazy. Which doesn't make sense to me because anyone who reads the bible should be able to see there more to it then that.

 

[forcedelune]

Musicians who are legendary with their instrument are regarded that way because they know their instrument so well it has become an extension of themselves. They only get that way through intense dedication, training, and knowledge of the instrument.

Lol. Awesome. I hope you will have much success reaching the very deepest places of your wife's heart through many intense years of study of your...uh, instrument. I, personally, think the perspective I'm laying out here will be a great deal more successful at reaching that same goal in much less amount of time and to much deeper expressions of intimacy.

I'm saying this in the most light-hearted way I can, so hopefully you'll laugh with me and not be angry at my sarcasm on that point. You're free to love your wife-to-be in your own way...I'm just presenting my perspective on the issue.

 

[Desk trauma]

Lol. Awesome. I hope you will have much success reaching the very deepest places of your wife's heart through many intense years of study of your...uh, instrument. I, personally, think the perspective I'm laying out here will be a great deal more successful at reaching that same goal in much less amount of time and to much deeper expressions of intimacy.

I can think of few things that would make intimacy harder to achieve then applying layers of fluffy nonsense, only alluding to the actual sex acts and remaining ignorance of everything to do with them prior to entering a marriage then having to fumble about with only the words of bronze age tribesmen to go by.

 

[forcedelune]

You have 83 posts. Pick one.

How about this one...

Now, on to a more in-depth view of Spirit led intimacy. First let me make it clear, that what I'm saying in this section only applies to evenly yoked married believers (in other words, who have the same heart for the Lord and who are spiritually alive). In cases where a believer and non-believer (or even a believer who has deep sin strongholds) are married, it's not the same. The second partner is either spiritually dead or their heart is too impure (thorny)...making it much more difficult to be led by the Spirit of God (watching out what spirits you may be opening yourself up to). That's a separate subject that we'll not be addressing at this point, so...I'll continue on.

There is no need for me (or some "sex ed" teacher) to tell you what particular actions are not good or pure to do. God's Spirit is in you and He will "lead you into all truth (righteousness)." [1 John 2:27] The problem, again, is that the world has convinced many of us to separate this one area of our life and make it secular (not spirit led, but rather flesh led). Yet, the priests of Israel did not just go into the "Holy of Holies" and guess (or make up) what to do- they followed God's instructions. Well, now God's Spirit is in us and He instructs us from within.

Again...marital intimacy is a form of worship and, as with any act of worship, the body draws us (like with music). But the focus should always be on Him (spirit)- not on instruments or sounds or singers. "Those who worship God must worship Him in spirit and in truth." [John 4:24]

In the marital song (which leads the dance of the marriage bed), our body is just a channel to enter this holy place of worship. Yet, the primary focus should stay on Him first- only then will He lead such lovers to truly focus on each other in the most fulfilling way possible. Marital intimacy should be a prayerful ("pray without ceasing" ) , worshipful, and reverential (for the supernatural) experience in which God is the head and we are open to His Spirit- as He leads us at every step.

Who knows better how to meet the deepest needs of our partner than Him? He will lead us to express ourselves (intimately) toward each other in a truly fulfilling way, which we could not have ever figured out on our own- I don't care how many "sex ed" or "Kama sutra" books you've read! If we want to have a truly fulfilling intimate experience with our future (or current) mate, we need to first start asking God to guide our intimate times together.

He will lead us in truly ministering to and fulfilling our partner. He will focus us on each other's heart, soul, and spirit. Don't so much concern yourself with the physical part, as it will surely have no problem following along. That's just a given.

So this is what I believe the Lord for, in my own marriage. If this thread touched your heart in a special way and you also feel a desire to believe the Lord for this in your marriage as well...I encourage you to read on. There are three factors (a pure heart, protected privacy, and faith filled modesty), that need to be right in the Lord, which will quench Him from being able to minister these blessings He created us to experience.

There are some areas, which many believers are not aware of, that will choke (and are already choking) out the potential for them to experience truly fulfilling intimacy within marriage. I'd like to share what I know of these hindrances in the clearest ways I can- so that you will someday experience the marriage bed as He so wonderfully designed you to. I very much look forward to what the Lord has in store. I hope you will as well.

 

[forcedelune]

I can think of few things that would make intimacy harder to achieve...to fumble about with only the words of bronze age tribesmen to go by.

Oh yeah, I forgot. Our generation also boasts that we have evolved as animals even beyond the famed wisdom of Solomon himself. I don't buy it. We may have more knowledge at our disposal than past generations, but that doesn't make us wiser.

I specifically said that I personally prefer to use those terms, but I'm not saying it was a requirement for healthy intimacy. I'm just a bit shocked at your disrespect for men of God in such time periods. Every man and every culture has their shortcomings (look at us)...but that doesn't mean their wisdom should be minimized in the least. My view.

Everyone...the reason I believe the Lord has called me to share these principles with you is two-fold. I believe He plans for many of us to see clearly, from the Word of God, how we can best prepare our hearts in order to receive (from the Lord or our marriage partner) and give (to the Lord or our marriage partner) at the deepest levels of our being. It’s during our times of intimacy that His Spirit yearns to lead us most- just read the Song of Solomon.

There’s a reason that not many believers (at least not in our current culture) experience what the Lord so perfectly designed for us to in this area of our lives. There are a few key blind spots in the lives of most believers today (especially in America) which subtly block them from being able to experience natural (much less supernatural) intimacy in marriage. In a very detailed, line upon line fashion, a good part of this my posts to come will be dedicated in attempting to shed some light on those "blind spots." Also I'd like to share, from God's Word, how to get these areas into natural balance again- so that true intimacy can be shared between a couple and the Lord.

Instead of just starting the more in-depth portions of this thread with straight forward teaching, I'm going to simply share my heart with you about where the Lord has led me to- as well as where I'm believing He will lead my wife to. In other words, I'm just going to sum up all of those teachings in a way that shows how the Lord first had me apply them to my own life. This will also show how it is that our own marriage partner will be able to meet with us at and share these deep levels of intimacy before the Lord. Please do pray before you read what I'm about to lay out...I want you to receive everything the Lord has in store.

 

[IanCG]

Now, on to a more in-depth view of Spirit led intimacy. First let me make it clear, that what I'm saying in this section only applies to evenly yoked married believers (in other words, who have the same heart for the Lord and who are spiritually alive). In cases where a believer and non-believer (or even a believer who has deep sin strongholds) are married, it's not the same. The second partner is either spiritually dead or their heart is too impure (thorny)...making it much more difficult to be led by the Spirit of God (watching out what spirits you may be opening yourself up to). That's a separate subject that we'll not be addressing at this point, so...I'll continue on.

You imply only good Christians know how to have the "right sex". It's patronizing and incorrect.

There is no need for me (or some "sex ed" teacher) to tell you what particular actions are not good or pure to do. God's Spirit is in you and He will "lead you into all truth (righteousness)." [1 John 2:27] The problem, again, is that the world has convinced many of us to separate this one area of our life and make it secular (not spirit led, but rather flesh led). Yet, the priests of Israel did not just go into the "Holy of Holies" and guess (or make up) what to do- they followed God's instructions. Well, now God's Spirit is in us and He instructs us from within.

There is nothing good or pure about ignorance. There is magic knowledge that gets imparted to you about sex just because you think you're being holy. What will happen, is if the sex is unsatisfying, the partners will blame themselves or each other for not being godly enough.

Again...marital intimacy is a form of worship and, as with any act of worship, the body draws us (like with music). But the focus should always be on Him (spirit)- not on instruments or sounds or singers. "Those who worship God must worship Him in spirit and in truth." [John 4:24] [/quote]

I could never be with someone who's attention is not focused on me when we're intimate. If it works for you, fine, but I don't envy you.

In the marital song (which leads the dance of the marriage bed), our body is just a channel to enter this holy place of worship. Yet, the primary focus should stay on Him first- only then will He lead such lovers to truly focus on each other in the most fulfilling way possible. Marital intimacy should be a prayerful ("pray without ceasing" ) , worshipful, and reverential (for the supernatural) experience in which God is the head and we are open to His Spirit- as He leads us at every step.

And for the non-christians, I guess they're just not doing it right. Somehow, I'm not upset by this.

[quote]Who knows better how to meet the deepest needs of our partner than Him? He will lead us to express ourselves (intimately) toward each other in a truly fulfilling way, which we could not have ever figured out on our own- I don't care how many "sex ed" or "Kama sutra" books you've read! If we want to have a truly fulfilling intimate experience with our future (or current) mate, we need to first start asking God to guide our intimate times together. [/quote]

And when you fail to express yourselves fulfillingly, it will lead to a crisis of faith.

He will lead us in truly ministering to and fulfilling our partner. He will focus us on each other's heart, soul, and spirit. Don't so much concern yourself with the physical part, as it will surely have no problem following along. That's just a given. [/quote]
It's not just a given. That's a very naive outlook that doesn't have a basis in reality.

So this is what I believe the Lord for, in my own marriage. If this thread touched your heart in a special way and you also feel a desire to believe the Lord for this in your marriage as well...I encourage you to read on. There are three factors (a pure heart, protected privacy, and faith filled modesty), that need to be right in the Lord, which will quench Him from being able to minister these blessings He created us to experience.

Ah, so when it doesn't work, it's because someone wasn't pure enough, wasn't faithful enough. That's not wisdom, that's emotional abuse.

There are some areas, which many believers are not aware of, that will choke (and are already choking) out the potential for them to experience truly fulfilling intimacy within marriage. I'd like to share what I know of these hindrances in the clearest ways I can- so that you will someday experience the marriage bed as He so wonderfully designed you to. I very much look forward to what the Lord has in store. I hope you will as well.

Why should anyone listen to what you have to share?

EDIT: Wow the formatting for this didn't come out right, but I don't have the motivation to fix it.

 

[Desk trauma]

Oh yeah, I forgot. Our generation also boasts that we have evolved as animals even beyond the famed wisdom of Solomon himself. I don't buy it. We may have more knowledge at our disposal than past generations, but that doesn't make us wiser.

Please tell me where did Solomon tell us how to make antibiotics, vaccinations, synthetic fertilizers, hybrid seed, electricity or anesthetic? We have far surpassed the knowledge of a philosophizing tribal king.

I specifically said that I personally prefer to use those terms, but I'm not saying it was a requirement for healthy intimacy. I'm just a bit shocked at your disrespect for men of God in such time periods.

Why is this shocking?

 

[forcedelune]

Now, that's what I'm talking about! Discussion of the issues. I respect that you're expressing disagreement with the points made, rather than the ad hominem attacks that are all too common on forums. Let me address your concerns...

You imply only good Christians know how to have the "right sex". It's patronizing and incorrect.

Actually, I don't consider any Christian to be "good" in the sense that you're talking about. We all have our share of blind spots and weaknesses in the flesh. I'm more so speaking to Christians who have a humble heart and a sober outlook on themselves enough to know that they don't have all of this answers in this area and might even be missing out of many things God has in store for them.

God does not reveal everything to every person and this is why it is good to consider the perspectives of others. This doesn't mean you are "bad" and they are "good"...it just means the Holy Spirit may be speaking something through them that He has intended to deliver through them to whomever is willing to consider it. And to those who do hear His Word in what's being presented (you be the judge for yourself) and then act on it...those are the ones who will be able to reap the benefit of the blessing that come with it. We each have our part to play in this saga...so just respect that this may very well be mine and I might just be one of those God has assigned with the patronage of this message, in the end.

There is nothing good or pure about ignorance.

There is magic knowledge that gets imparted to you about sex just because you think you're being holy. What will happen, is if the sex is unsatisfying, the partners will blame themselves or each other for not being godly enough.

I wasn't saying "ignorance" is necessarily good or pure...I'm just referring to what our focus should be during intimacy if we hope to fulfill our marriage partner at the deepest levels we can in this life. Although, the Bible does state that ignorance is actually good in some cases [1 Corinthians 14:20]...so you may want to consider that for future situations.

And regarding the "magic knowledge" (what I call, the leading of the Holy Spirit) and fears of if "sex is unsatisfying" and "not being godly enough"...again, this would only be the case if I were a believer that actually thinks I'm perfect and good and without weakness or flaws. Certainly not the case. We're never going to be "godly enough" to reach some perfect state.

Our place is to do our best to prepare our hearts to be receptive to the seeds given to us by the Holy Spirit, then prevent them from being chocked out or dried up, and then take part in the fruit (all to the best of our current ability and strength). To the degree we are able to do so...to that very degree (basically) we will experience the blessing in that area of our life. That's how it works in every aspect of sanctification for each believer. It's a growing experience that get's better over time, as we mature in the Lord and walk in the ways of truth revealed to us along the way.

I could never be with someone who's at

tention is not focused on me when we're intimate.

Sounds like you mean, on your body. You are more than your body alone. We're not talking about someone focusing on some other outside person...we're talking about both people seeking to be led by the Holy Spirit WITHIN, in order to know (from the Creator Himself) how to best attend to the needs of your partner in ways you could never figure out on your own in the flesh.

We're talking about being Spirit Led and there is no time in a believer's life that they should NOT be seeking to be Spirit Led. My problem is that many believers have fallen for the worldly hoax that this is the one time when they should NOT be Spirit led...as if that is a silly proposition (case in point here). You are supposed to be secular minded during "sex" they basically say...in so many words. Well, we are clearly told in Scripture that we should always be led by the Spirit of God in everything we do in life. This is my point.

And when you fail to express yoursel

ves fulfillingly, it will lead to a crisis of faith.

Again, no crisis of faith...because I never fooled myself into thinking I was good or perfectly sensitive to the Holy Spirit in the first place. In the same way, I don't have a crisis of faith when my marriage in general is not perfectly fulfilling in every way...I just acknowledge that both myself and my spouse bring flaws to the table. I learn what I can from God's Word as to best love my wife and encourage a blessed marriage, but I know that it is not truly possible to be perfectly fulfilled in the end.

We just do our best to apply whatever God revealed principles we can and try to find fulfillment to the deepest degrees we can in these areas of our lives. The goal, as a believer, is always perfect holiness in our lives...but none of us should fool ourselves into thinking we will achieve it to perfection. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try or make fun of those who do.

It's not just a given. That's a very naive outlook that doesn't have a basis in reality.

Ah, so when it doesn't work, it's

because someone wasn't pure enough, wasn't faithful enough. That's not wisdom, that's emotional abuse.

Why should anyone listen to what you have to share

Yes, that's how the real world works...if you truly believe in the Word of God. It never was a given that you would experience the fullness of God's blessings in any area of life, if we're living in ways that don't line up with the principles of his Word. It's that old, you reap what you sow, concept. We just have to be humble enough to admit it and do the best we can with the gifts we have been given.

Why should they listen...because I might very well be presenting truths that will prove to be a blessing in their lives and marriages. It's worth checking into, for sure. We can't just throw our hands up because we can't have perfection doing something in life.

We aren't going to be perfect at any area of life and sometimes God even places us in situations that we will not ever be able to experience even the most basic blessing made available to most in this life. That is His place to plan such things. But, by all means, if you have the ability to apply whatever measure of God's truths to your life...in order to experience some level of blessing and fulfillment, do so.

 

[apache1]

Awesome. Thank you for the plug on that one. I lost track of that thread when it got moved to another topic area and I didn't even know it was still here. I actually did another 4 threads before that one (non-related to it), but they all had to be moved to the proper topic section, so I'm starting them over here. But, now that I know that one is here, I'll go back to that one shortly as well.

Although, please save your discussion of that particular topic for that thread. Has nothing to do with the subject matter at hand. Even if you think I'm wrong on one point, it doesn't mean I'm wrong on every point about marriage or Scripture.

No believer has a perfect handle on the truth, which is why we all need to glean off of one another what we reason to be true or not true from Scripture. We all can learn from one another in some form or fashion...which is why it's important that you stick to the subject at hand with your discussion, rather than pointing out some other discussion you may disagree with. I think this is basic Message Board protocol.

The guru or getting it on, the friar of the freaky-deaky, the sultan of the horizontal swing. All hail the king! Here, Here!!

 

[CounselorForChrist]

To forcedelune. I'd ask a moderator to move this topic to the Advice section here:
http://www.christianforums.com/f232/

I say this because your message might be lost in this current section since non-believers are allowed to post. Unless of course your message was for them too. But most of the members stick the advice section for topics like this.

 

[apache1]

Finally found the proper section of the forum to start this discussion. My apologies to the Mod's and Admins that I've been kind of the lone wanderer from topic to topic on this one. Thank you for helping me to get this discussion started in the most appropriate place. So, here we go.

Being one who enjoys frequenting Christian forums...from time to time, I've come across a number of posts in which people were discussing topics such as exactly what kind of "sex" is acceptable, good, and pure after (when) you're married. Well, even though these were Christian message boards, sadly the posts often start to get pretty graphic and inappropriate. At the risk of being judged as naive or unrealistic, I'd like to present my perspective on this issue of what is/is not "sexually right" to do in the marriage bed and hopefully we can have a good discussion on the topic.

First, let's make it clear that the Scriptures do teach how the world has a corrupted version of God's original plan for marital intimacy...or at least shows us where the foundation of such degradation first began. Take a look with me at the following passage of Scripture (my comments in {}'s):

"Therefore God gave them up in the lusts {ungodly desires} of their own hearts to sexual {anything, related to the body, that God has set apart as private from the opposite sex} impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves. Because they exchanged the truth of God {or the leading of His Spirit} for a lie and worshiped and served the creature {body} rather than the Creator {spirit}...For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural or abnormal one {temple/body prostitution}..." [Romans 1:24-26]

So what points can we pull out of these scriptures, which may not already seem so apparent, but are the obvious outcome over time?

1) The world's view and approach to marital intimacy is based on a lie. What lie? That marital intimacy should be led by/focused on the body (our outer/physical temple)- rather than the spirit. While the body is a beautiful gift from the Lord (and to your spouse), it was never intended to be your primary focus during intimacy.

First we should be focused on the spirit (prayerful, mindful, thankful, and worshipful toward the Lord), then heart (seeking and being sensitive to meet your partner's most intimate longings), then soul (being considerate to your partner's thoughts, desires, and feelings), and then body (sensual pleasures and conception). I should not have an out of balance focus on my partner's body (in effect, lusting in the flesh), rather than longing to touch her heart. I'll explain this further as we go.

2) The body should be honored- not dishonored. So there are things we can do, in the marriage bed, which actually dishonor our body (and His body...being that we are a member of His Church).

3) There is a natural and unnatural use for our body, in the context of marital intimacy.

4) There are some things that can be done in the marriage bed which are vile or degrading (to one or both parties).

"Let marriage be held in honor in all things. And thus let the marriage bed be undefiled (kept undishonored); for God will judge and punish the unchaste {Greek- inappropriate contentos} (all guilty of sexual vice) and adulterous." [Hebrews 13:4]

What can we glean from this verse?

1) Every aspect of marriage (including the marriage bed and marital intimacy) should be held (talked about and acted toward) in honor.

2) The marriage bed can be defiled by certain activities- such as sexual vice {inappropriate contentos} (wrong sexual conduct) and adultery.

Now, for the obvious question...how do we (as believers) determine what is true, honorable, pure, chaste, right, and natural in the marriage bed? The same way we always should in every area of our lives- being led by His Spirit and by His Word.

"So then, brethren, we are debtors, but not to the flesh (we are not obligated to our carnal nature) to live (a life ruled by the standards set up by the dictates) of the flesh...but if through the power of the Holy Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the flesh you shall (experience) true life. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." [Romans 8:12-14]

"Every scripture is God breathed and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, and for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action)." [2 Timothy 3:16]

The world has, sadly, influenced the Church so much in this area that we often talk and act like they do (commonly saying things like "having sex" to refer to the fleshly act, using scientific/cold/flesh focused names for certain private parts of the body, focusing first on the physical rather than the spirit). Now I'm not discussing medical terminology (that's another subject), but rather within the context of marital intimacy. I'm also not saying that it is "sinful" to use such expressions...it's just not as meaningful and respectful as I feel God intended it to be.

Does Scripture exemplify this type of attitude toward intimacy in marriage?

The world (who is led by Satan) has taken this very holy & spiritually significant area of our life and has made it seem secular in nature. This is that which represents the very union of Christ and His Church- which brings about an opening of this veil between the spirit realm and the flesh realm (conception). Such an awe inspiring and sacred experience should never be secularized and talked about matter-of-factly in the context of marriage. Should it?

This very special time should be likened more to when one entered into the "Holy of Holies" (behind that mysterious veil in the Old Testament temple)- where God's Spirit would pass through that veil, which separated the spirit and physical realm. Intimacy within marriage is (should be) a holy activity and is the beginning of a mysterious time when a child is able to pass into our world from the spirit realm. Please, pause and take a moment to think about this. Such a holy and awesome experience should not be just "openly" and casually talked about or acted upon, should it?

I know this may be hard to swallow, being that most of us have been ingrained and educated to be desensitized or "open" when it comes to this very private and holy subject of marital intimacy, but shall we open the bedroom door as well and let everybody have a look? So why should we continue to do it with our words? Why should we continue to unclothe before others what God has told us to cover?

There's a reason that marital intimacy is supposed to be private. God designed it that way. This is why inappropriate contentography violates our conscience (a healthy one at least) like it does. Within the next post, we'll begin addressing what Scripture has to say about (and how to be Spirit led in) marital intimacy.

You may still be asking, what this has to do with "Ethics & Morality" at this point...bear with me, because I'm going somewhere and you'll see the relevance in the end. Your thoughts on what's been said so far?

Well, do you think putting your wife over your knee and spanking her (or her spanking you) is o.k. for "spice" in marriage, or only for disobedient youngin's? Before you think what I'm writing is kinky and a little off base, it certainly isn't any stranger than one writing that they think age of consent should be 12 years old and 40 years old men should be able to marry 12 or 13 year old girls (but not mentioned whether 12 year old boys can marry 40 year old cougars).

 

[wannabeadesigirl]

In my understanding sex is the most fulfilling when the couple gives fully to each other, making sure both individuals reach climax (satisfaction etc). I agree there is a spiritual connection, but sometimes you've just got to have sex for the fun of it, because it feels good, or because you ate a whole ton of chocolate p). I think that "fun" sex can be just as intimate and holy and spirit led as a passionate session.

Also you mentioned not using cold calculating or scientific terms when describing each others body parts, but it seems to me the alternates are awkward (the garden spoken of in the S.O.S)because they're archaic or sound more appropriate in a inappropriate content movie. I would rather use the scientific terms for body parts because it acknowledges them as XYZ, as opposed to giving them some kind of "pet" name.

Here's another question: Kids. If (as your other post suggests) it's perfectly okay for a 12 year old to get married and have sex (as a female I know that I wasn't capable of handling sex at 12. I don't think any 12 year old is mature enough, or mentally/physically ready to have sex with a grown man.) how can you discuss such a vital part of life with them without breaking the sanctity of the marriage bed. You can't tell me you advocate sending a girl, a child, into her marriage without any foreknowledge of what to expect. This could go for "where do babies come from" questions posed by very observant little ones.

 

[apache1]

In my understanding sex is the most fulfilling when the couple gives fully to each other, making sure both individuals reach climax (satisfaction etc). I agree there is a spiritual connection, but sometimes you've just got to have sex for the fun of it, because it feels good, or because you ate a whole ton of chocolate p). I think that "fun" sex can be just as intimate and holy and spirit led as a passionate session.

Also you mentioned not using cold calculating or scientific terms when describing each others body parts, but it seems to me the alternates are awkward (the garden spoken of in the S.O.S)because they're archaic or sound more appropriate in a inappropriate content movie. I would rather use the scientific terms for body parts because it acknowledges them as XYZ, as opposed to giving them some kind of "pet" name.

Here's another question: Kids. If (as your other post suggests) it's perfectly okay for a 12 year old to get married and have sex (as a female I know that I wasn't capable of handling sex at 12. I don't think any 12 year old is mature enough, or mentally/physically ready to have sex with a grown man.) how can you discuss such a vital part of life with them without breaking the sanctity of the marriage bed. You can't tell me you advocate sending a girl, a child, into her marriage without any foreknowledge of what to expect. This could go for "where do babies come from" questions posed by very observant little ones.

Well, what do you expect from a "lune" that thinks medical schools should be divided into all male med student departments and all female med school student departments where one only studies the anatomy and physiology of their respective sexes (I ain't making this up - this person wrote this some time ago in another forum I, literally, accidentally stumbled upon) (if I'm having a heart attack, I certainly don't care if it's a male, female, or that matter, some transgender yahoo that saves my life, as long as they know what they are doing. I guess where I lost respect for this individual is silly things such as these that said person advocates, as well as thinking 12 year old girls are of marriageable age to old farts, and don't get this person started on "decency" (bikinis, showing "a little skin", etc.).

 

[forcedelune]

We have far surpassed the knowledge of a philosophizing tribal king. Why is this shocking?

You confuse knowledge with wisdom. For all of the knowledge we have (which the Bible also predicted of this generation [Daniel 12:4])...we have no more wisdom about how to properly (morally or with a safe balance) use such knowledge than any other past generation. Your seeming superiority complex over past generations of men seems to stem more out of a secular evolutionary mindset than a more realistic Biblical world view.

And actually I forgot that there are a large number of people on this site who don't believe that Scripture is the Word of God (wholly inspired by God)...so it really doesn't surprise me that someone here would state that God's Word was basically inferior philosophical Bronze age stories. The truth is that most every generation has had crude or casual ways of describing acts between males and females...God's Word was different (Holy), as it still is today. It also then doesn't surprise me that you would not respect those men that Christ Himself honored and respected in His own life on earth.